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| Thread: Another boring topic by me |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Jex
Known Hero
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posted July 01, 2001 01:35 PM |
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Another boring topic by me
I cant sleep again - but here is what I was thinking about.
I kind of go on a bit.
Why doesnt ToH reverse the way points and rewards are given out????
Just think of that for awhile......
The losing division gets the artifact to make them stronger....
Only people who had lost alot of games would be in the hall of fame.....
Hopefully there would be less people in the hall of shame.....
Whoever had the worst record would be in 'first'.....
Whoever had the best record would be in 'last', maybe even give him/her the title of 'big ol loser' or something......
Wow I never realized how much I hate ToH, till now.
Oh well what can I do make a new tourney? hmmmm
Seriously I want to play in a tournment where winning isnt everything or doesnt get you everything. It makes everyone too competitive, sure that can be fun. But it always puts pressure on you to win. ugh pressure. Sure I have had some great games being super competitive. And I am very competitive in the game. But I dont need the extra pressure from outside the game telling me that I need to try and win even harder. Maybe thats just me or perhaps I am not being very clear. By pressure I mean incentive, the want to succeed in ToH. Who knows maybe that incentive is what has keep us all playing this game for so damn long. But I hope not.
The only way to get recognizable in ToH is to win lots. Why are we better people than the ones at the bottom of ladder?? Hell, no. Better or luckier heroes players probably. Personally I would like to see the guys who get pounded all the time get the fame. I mean personally I think it is alot harder to get a record of 42 wins and 134 losses than it is get a record of 268 wins and 42 losses. As winning the game is it's own reward, imho. But to lose that many games and still play in toh requires a very special person. It aint easy to take a beating after beating, it is alot easier to stomp guys over and over again. But we reward the stompers and ignore the people left on the ground. Whats wrong with that picture?
Why not punish the winners and reward the losers? Thats my question.
Now to get back to killing you off with beer.... stupid brain
Jex
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted July 01, 2001 03:39 PM |
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all I gotta say is...to a certain degree, your point of playing is to win. if you play fair and have a fun time there should be no problem if you win or not, and if you win, feel good about it, if you lose, still feel good, but strive to win your next.
oh..and losin is easier than winning, and the game would suck if you played people who tried to lose.
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I will not lose.
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted July 01, 2001 03:45 PM |
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MMMMM Beer
Beer makes you think better  ...... As for your concepts , see what beer did that makes alot of sense..... BEER the cause of and solutions to all of ToH's problems 
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LichKing
Honorable
Known Hero
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posted July 03, 2001 02:02 AM |
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Jex
You feel stressed and pressured to win because ToH is a ladder style tourney and so competitive?
Dude..........it's just a game. It might help to play a few with little thought toward whether you win or lose and more thought toward the fun you're having and the good company you're enjoying.
That stress just might disappear for good
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SOUND THE CHARGE!! INTO GLORY RIDE!!!
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RashkaRools
Hired Hero
The Underdog
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posted July 03, 2001 02:39 AM |
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Quote:
Why not punish the winners and reward the losers? Thats my question. Quote:
Because, if you punished the winners, who would want to win? games would be spent with people trying to lose as hard as they can, attacking monster groups that they know they'll lose to, leaving their castle unguarded on purpose, and so on. would that be any fun?
okay, think of it this way:
if you got rewarded for losing, then losing would turn into winning, and winning would be losing, right? well in that case, since losers are rewarded, and you would lose by winning, that would make winning again because its losing because losing gets rewarded which makes it winning. but the of course losing would be losing and since losers get rewarded, that would make losing winning and winning losing, and forever and ever on into a black hole of repettitiveness....
scary, huh?
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--Please Remain Seated Until Further Notice--
-RashkaRools
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 03, 2001 03:22 AM |
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To Rashka
You have missed the point, why would you call somebody who has played 200 games for 50 wins a loser? That guy is a winner and I agree with Jex wholeheartedly. Even though he keeps coming back for more punishment everytime, he still does it, he still reports every loss, but he enjoys the game so much, a win or loss is not important to him, and you know he wil be back tomorrow to do it all again.
Imo, he is a winner and deserves to be rewarded
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Jex
Known Hero
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posted July 03, 2001 04:35 AM |
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Thxs Rychen
um wow rych, very kind words thxs. I think the same about you. and want to know what your doing Saturday nite?? lol
I think alot of people seem to have miss understood my post. I dont want to play people who would purposely lose, either. I want to play people who are less likely to give a crap about the outcome of a game. I think ToH makes people care more about the outcome of the games and how their record looks. As there is money and points that are given out to the winners. I have always said that this seems to promote more people to less than honorable conduct.
My other point about punishing the winners is a little extreme, maybe just do what ToH does to the losers now, ignore them. However rewarding losers with awards and pestige points I think would be good, but definitely not cash. I would however like to see sometype of optional bonuses for cadets and sgts when they are forced into playing colonels thru divs, clans, and other stuff. I just cant rap my mind around a colonel using an artifact(nasty bonus) or 2 on a cadet or sgt. I have always felt that it should be the other way around.
Jb, you personally know that it is easier to lose a 100 games than it is to win a 100?? Maybe strategically speaking it is, but emotionally speaking I know I rarely get pissed and quit playing heroes for a week or 2 after I win 10 or more games in a row. But if I lost that many in a row....
Sorry to dispell your image of me Rychen, but I cant keep coming back for more abuse. I will not be going into clan finals or into the grandmasters. I will just stick to the regular toh and possibly stay in the divisions, but not for sure......
Jex
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 03, 2001 05:15 AM |
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lol Jex
Well most of that was directed at those guys who show up and play even tho they lose so much etc... but I havent had a prob with u and when I got those division arts to use against you, you had no prob with reporting and all that. But the deadman said it the best, it is only a game and it has to be kept in perspective
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pluvious
Promising
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 03, 2001 09:17 AM |
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A tournament that de-empasizes the importance of winning? Hmmm...I don't see it happening. Oh wait!? Uhm, no...never mind.
Its too bad really though, as incentives for simply playing and fun maps does facilitate a nice game-playing atmosphere. Mix that with a large pool of like-minded individuals and this task-orientated approach to the "game" might lessen. Not so much a need to cheat, get upset, or get burnt out under these circumstances. Oh well.
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...Pluvious...
-The Storm Before the Calm-
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted July 04, 2001 09:20 AM |
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um... jex
Stumbled onto this topic......
Um... Jex, whats the point of a tournament if it isnt to win? I think you drank too much beer, and are taking 'philosophy' too far.
Lets change the world, and make all tournaments, starting from the World Olympics, in Jex's fashion. Then when we have converted at least 50% of all competitions in the world to such a cause, TOH will follow.
Or more easily, you dont play in a tourney.... then there is no stress to 'compete'.
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zedrin
Known Hero
Ping pong goes the gong
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posted July 05, 2001 01:44 AM |
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I propose a simpler deal... You have Grandmasters... why not create another subtourney, for the worst records of the season... where you give out the same prizes as the Grandmasters... I dunno... PerfectPlayers or something... gives an incentive to those for whom winning isn't such a great deal.
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"Blow wind! Come wrack
At least we die with harness on our back" - Shakespeare, Macbeth
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maxym
Known Hero
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posted July 05, 2001 05:20 AM |
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Great Idea Zedrin
i think that would be really cool, having a tournament like grandmasters (minus the 3rd party host) for all of those who have played over 100+ games and never made a CAP rank. This way it will be free of returning vetarans and of new skilled recruits.
How about it Ves? Would a mirror tournament like that be a lot of trouble with out the 3rd part host?
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"What is life? Work followed by television."
"1985" Anthony Burgess
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted July 05, 2001 05:26 AM |
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sounds like cadets tourney
What would be the parameters? Players with more than x number of games, or players with more losses than wins, or cadets only with x number of games, or honor medalists?
We need a defined set of parameters as to who could register for something like this, it isnt as clear cut as 1600+ pts grandmasters.
Someone come up with a realistic set of parameters for this, and hey, it could be a popular subtourney, even for future homm4 TOH.
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 05, 2001 05:54 AM |
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Say....a win to loss ratio could possibly be used, maybe 2:1 or something like that
On second thought, that wouldnt work, there are tonnes of great players who dont have quite that ratio ie. Troelsen, Vex, and many others.Maybe it needs to be point orientated.
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted July 05, 2001 07:38 AM |
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More BS from Mocara
This is one of the coolest post I have seen.
It is sometimes best to just blurt something out half sure it is correct then work on it later because it is provokative and can start discussion.
I have thought long and hard about heroes and ladders over the years and I was glad to see someone else point out some of the ideas I kept in my head.
Ever played a game when you suspect the other guy is cheating?
I've only done that like 200 times.
Do you play your best?
I don't.
I feel like I can't win so I mess up.
Also I am not having fun so I want the game to be over.
My point is that we have a ladder which is designed to show who the best player is but it will never do that.
It first shows who plays the most and can win 3 out of 5 or better.
It sometimes shows who can cheat and not get caught.
It sometimes shows people who are good at avoiding finishing games.
It sometimes shows people who are really good at rolling people on one map.
And occasionally it maybe shows who is the best (Phantom is on top now and he is damned good).
The point is that there is no way to show who is best through such a ladder.
It's not Vesuvius fault. It's just inherently flawed.
So just accept that and reallize points are meaningless right?
I don't know.
Because every time I get to that thought I then reallize that the whole idea of a ladder is meaningless and that of course means playing games for points is meaningless.
And you know I think we all know that is true anyway.
It is fun to play poker for lil plastic chips and it is fun to play heroes for points.
Points that will go away in September.
Points that won't mean snow in 5 years and won't pay our bills and won't fill in for some of the other cool things we could have been doing in the real world with people we actually know.
I was #1 ranked in the heroes2 ladder for a long time and I wasn't the best player in the world.
I just figured out how to get there. Mainly through memorizing maps and playing a lot.
And all that and $50.00 will buy me Heroes4.
It's meaningless but it can be fun.
I also have mad respect for those players who have a ton of losses on their records.
Art Pendragon, Sir Punk, Fran7738. Those guys have character. When most people would have denounced the game and quit they play on and set a shining example of why you are supposed to play the game.
-Mocara
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pluvious
Promising
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 05, 2001 09:44 AM |
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Life is not black and white. Ideas are not inherintely right or wrong. There is always an in-between...a balance that represents a point you must strive for.
Yes, competition and winning are acknowledged aspects of our society. "Winning isn't everything, its the only thing". Just listen to any sports athlete and they will tell you that they just want to be part of a winning team. But keep in mind...they want to be "part of a team".
Toh is successful because of the community of players, not because of any hard and fast rule. Anything can be changed...and when concepts are not ideal a new idea should be looked into. If this does not happen this is unfortunate.
Personally I have always wanted to get into toh and join the community of players. However, certain aspects of the tournament have made this very difficult for me. Mainly memorized maps played dozens of times by players and bad attitudes by people on the zone. It just turns me off.
Balance is a truly beautiful thing. Yes, its a dream...but just because toh is far and away the most successful tournament for heroes, it doesn't mean that that the status quo can't be changed. I know many great players (many with great attitudes as well) who leave toh because of problems with cheating and bad attitudes. And this is not a problem that can't be fixed...it is simply something that should be looked at in comparison to the need for a great # of players in the community.
Of course judging the importance is difficult...even more so if your belief system rarely changes.
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...Pluvious...
-The Storm Before the Calm-
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zedrin
Known Hero
Ping pong goes the gong
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posted July 06, 2001 01:27 AM |
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Part of the winning team...
Of course they wanna be part of the winning team, that way they can hide their flaws and share the glory, even if they fail..
As for the subtourney, i'd say people with more then 100 games, for those are the ones that have the strength to go on defeat after defeat, but who never made it to captain.
The prizes should be even more prestige than the grandmasters, and some titles like honorary overlord/legionaire.... the win loss ratio wouldn't that much count, as long as they have at least 20 more losses then wins... the captain status would prevent hardened soldiers to interfere with the fun
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"Blow wind! Come wrack
At least we die with harness on our back" - Shakespeare, Macbeth
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maxym
Known Hero
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posted July 06, 2001 06:31 AM |
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Parameters
i have looked at how the tourney should be defined and was about to post a long thread when my comp crashed. So this time i'll keep it short:
Tourney should be open to all LTs, SGTs, and CDTs with:
50+ games on record (sword icon)
and no dragon icons from any season (so no former CPTs+)
I have counted 37 LTs, 47 SGts and 25 active cadets who satisfy those conditions.
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"What is life? Work followed by television."
"1985" Anthony Burgess
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted July 06, 2001 10:05 AM |
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Quote:
there are tonnes of great players who dont have quite that ratio ie. Troelsen, Vex, and many others.Maybe it needs to be point orientated.
Hehehe, that's weird coming from u Rychee...
How's ur ratio going? LOL
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 06, 2001 12:21 PM |
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uh oh...Kuma attacking me
Wasnt thinking from my own perspective, because I prolly wouldnt play in a cutthroat tourney or the like, my ratio is less than 100% yes, but I still have the ability to kick some 6'8" dutch ass (ie. KoR)
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