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Heroes Community > MapHaven Guild > Thread: problems with the 3rd mission(elixir of something)
Thread: problems with the 3rd mission(elixir of something) This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
djwest
djwest

Tavern Dweller
BLAZING OTHER DJ'S SINCE 2000
posted January 14, 2005 11:36 PM

problems with the 3rd mission(elixir of something)

yo whats diggin yall.
i coped heroes 3 and ive been playing it a lot lately. imma sum it up, im currently stuck those big ass dragons attack me. my mission is to prevent the dragon lords from selling this artifact to those bad dudes.

but it seems like i always die, they always attack me and they have likw 12 gold dragons +  other creaturtes while i got like..6-7 green dragons and some other weak creatures. any tips??
snow getting annoyin. seems like no matter what i build, how many castles i conquer, those lords will always outpower me.


what can i do?thanks in advance
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djwest
djwest

Tavern Dweller
BLAZING OTHER DJ'S SINCE 2000
posted January 14, 2005 11:42 PM

yo just for the record they attack after 6 days or something. even if i had enuf crystal for gold dragons, i cwould never have enough gold resources..i got 1 mine+capitol but them lords always push me...and the strong sharpshooters are useless too most of the time because the other lords snowing blindin them



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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted January 15, 2005 01:57 AM

Let me see if I can be of assistance.

1. What difficulty level did to you set for this scenario?
2. On week 1, did the Dragon army attack you on your turf or did you wander into theirs?
3. What are Gelu's primary stats? His army?


-The difficulty level might have an effect on how soon the enemies attack on this level.

-If you push to the extreme south of your position, you might've bumped into a tough enemy hero with dragons who'll probably toast you since it's too early in the level. Try to avoid the far south and west, but instead attempt to built up your army and clear your starting quadrant.

-At this point, Gelu's probably got some good Attack, Defense, and some magic abilities. Try to give him the best creatures the first several weeks so he can ward off intruders while he's still in your territory. After Gelu plunges deep into enemy lands, use a secondary hero to gather up troops in a sort of militia to defend base.

-The Logistics skill is very important for all your heroes in maps like this. You want to move your guys around as quickly as possible, as in fast reaction to new threats or events. If you have the Boots or Gloves artifacts, give them to Gelu since he'll be doing the main bashing of enemy towns.

-Be sure to visit the creature dwelling locations weekly to get extra troops. And hold onto the gold mines as long as you can.

-Take note of the town southwest of your starting area. You can recruit Green Dragons here, so you'll want to capture and hold it for that reason. If you must temporarily give up this town to the enemy, buy all the Dragons first and then retreat.

-When you explore an area far away from your area, keep watch during the enemy's turn to watch hero movements. This way, you can plan sneak attacks on enemy towns.

-Sometimes you'll only be able to hold on to a captured enemy town for a short while; if you can, wait till the next week to get all the troops/dragons and leave. This hopping technique helped me win this level, so you can try it.

-Eventually, your increased number of Dragons will be able to face up to the enemy heroes' armies and towns. With Gelu's skills, you'll take out everything easily and beat the level.

I hope this helps.
-guitarguy
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djwest
djwest

Tavern Dweller
BLAZING OTHER DJ'S SINCE 2000
posted January 15, 2005 09:54 AM
Edited By: djwest on 15 Jan 2005


i read the rules and didnt come across any restrictions regarding image linking. nevertheless i know that users who own old modems would go through a lot of problems loading this page so i'll just post the links, without any hot linking or however that retrarded snow is called.
about the difficulity, i always play the default one.
but after 2 hours of hard work & shameful defeats, ive switched the difficulity to easy(easiest), and still they get me...

thanks a lot man. but im afraid that executing those plans won't be as easy as you might put it. i cant go south, because if i ride too far, the powerful dragon lord will get me, if i go southwest(well actually it's more like northwest) the other lord that walks there will get at me. he's not that strong but i can't efford to lose my main headquarters.

let me attach some pictures of my hero; his skills, spells, and overall stats. i'll also attach a picture of my captured resources, army, and the castle itself, so you can see what my army about.

ok i got it

[link]http://www.rap-arena.hostop.net/HEROESenemyforce.jpg[/link]
http://www.rap-arena.hostop.net/HEROESenemyishere.jpg
http://www.rap-arena.hostop.net/HEROESgelustats.jpg
http://www.rap-arena.hostop.net/HEROESmyarmy.jpg
http://www.rap-arena.hostop.net/HEROESmybuildings.jpg
http://www.rap-arena.hostop.net/HEROESmyresources.jpg
http://www.rap-arena.hostop.net/heroesPISSEDthemoff.jpg
in the last picture i finally got my hands on upgraded unicorn glade & other cool things but it wont help me because  that guy is going to get me...i right clicked his ass to show you his army. no way i can't conquer anything now, he really pushes me...but even if he didnt push me im afraid he would attack me as soon as i cross his path.
he will surely attack me. please take a minute to look at those links my friend.

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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted January 15, 2005 11:50 AM

Some additional help

Thank you for the screenshots. The situation does not look terribly hopeless, in my opinion. I think you're actually close to defeating the enemy hero; it'll just require a few more steps. First of all, keep a number of saved games handy since you may need them to fall back on. Second, restarting the level from scratch may appear junk at first, but then again you'll probably know the map better on the next try. If you've played it several times in a row, you'll know what most of your starting area looks like. This is an advantage, as you can do the first weeks with a clearer game plan in mind.

-Keep in mind that these campaign missions run screwy for the human player sometimes. Good and bad luck often determines whether you're well off winning the level or not. Such misfortune might come in the form of an "end-all" attack in the 2nd week, for example, where there's no way out except to reload or restart. I don't have to tell you how much that sucks, but we have little control over that. So be prepared for random setbacks.

-About the southern regions; you might want to stop at the gem pond and go no further to keep the enemy from following. Hopefully, you'll have at least a couple of weeks to build up and clean out your territory.

-If the enemy dragon army does come north, check out his troops and consider your own. Your best judgement will help to determine if you can take him. Or, perhaps, you can bring Gelu down with his army and try to scare the enemy away. This assumes, though, that you have enough troops to frighten him into thinking he can't win.

-I'd like you to note that on Easy difficulty, the computer acts dumb at times. Enemy heroes might attack you regardless of their chances. If you can fight a major enemy hero early in the level (on Easy), then the enemy will not retreat and you can take him out. It's only on Normal and up that the AI will retreat. So keep an able army with you if at all possible.

-I noticed in the screenshots that you didn't quite reach the Rampart town further to the southwest. I understand that you came under fire by the Orange player in the second week and it was probably best not to push for it at that time. Just remember to take it as soon as possible since it's got the Dragon Cliff dwelling pre-built (I think).

-I also noticed that you had the misfortune of not receiving the Armorer skill. That skill goes far in defending your troops against tough opponents. It might not have been your fault that you didn't receive it; maybe it just wasn't an option. In the future, keep the Armorer skill in mind for your main hero. You have the Archery skill at max, so that should help a bit, too.

-Combat strategy: You're probably aware of troop numbers in this game. The "few" Gold Dragons the Orange hero has means he's got anywhere from 1 through 4 of them. Had it been "several", it'd be 5 through 9. Since he has "few", it is certain that you have more Green Dragons than he'll have Gold Dragons. Even though his dragons are upgraded, that doesn't mean he's bound to win. In combat, you can try to put your Dragons, Unicorns, and Silver Pegasi on "wait". Have the enemies come forward, and hopefully their Gold Dragons will not reach and tie up your Ranged Units (Sharpshooters specifically). If they do reach, try to kill off the dragons as quickly as you can. You'll want your dragons to battle their dragons, have your Centaur and Pegasi troops occupy their Centaurs, and free up your Sharps to shoot down the slow-moving enemy Dendroids and Dwarves before they get close. Use whatever Dwarf or Dendroid you might have with you to attack anything they can reach. And watch out for the dragons' two-hex breath attack! If you play on Easy, you just might have a good chance of putting that enemy hero out of commission.

-If you can get rid of that hero, then you should try to go on the offensive if no other enemy comes to attack. You'll have to vary your strategy as you move along due to that variability that I mentioned earlier. As when I played this level, I had to respond to nearly everything with a counterplan to ensure Gelu's survival and to get closer to winning. It'll take time.

That's a lot to take in all at once, so write back on any progress you might've made on that game (or perhaps a restarted game). And be wary of bad luck.

-guitarguy
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Shenjairo
Shenjairo


Known Hero
Simsalabim
posted January 15, 2005 11:56 AM

Hmm, should be possible to defeat Ufretin. You seem to have had bad luck with your skill choices, but have expert slow at least. I will take a look at my game later today, I stopped at that map because I thought the Gelu campaign was boring. Will play through it and write down my progress to see if that helps anything.
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djwest
djwest

Tavern Dweller
BLAZING OTHER DJ'S SINCE 2000
posted January 15, 2005 12:07 PM
Edited By: djwest on 15 Jan 2005

ok man thanks again. thank you too sheinjaro.


hey, you guys want to play online? we can play free for all or something.
i've never tried it, i hope that playing online with each other is even possible, because it sounds like lots of fun

:-)

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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted January 15, 2005 12:13 PM

Quote:
hey, guitarboy, want to play online? you & me or something. i never tried it. i hope it's possible.

maybe we can play?playing online sounds great.


Ha, sorry but ironically I suck as a normal player. I'm okay with helping on some campaigns because I just beat a few of them last month and my tactics are still fresh in my mind. I can imagine an online game; easy win for you But also I've been having online difficulties; you can find my help post somewhere on the TOH forum. Angelito's been trying to help me out. When I can play on the Zone again, I'll reconsider, though.

-guitarguy
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djwest
djwest

Tavern Dweller
BLAZING OTHER DJ'S SINCE 2000
posted January 15, 2005 12:19 PM
Edited By: djwest on 15 Jan 2005

oh damn. ive checked that thread out

how about TCP/IP? doesnt work for you too?
VICTORY IS MINE!!!!!!well, not quite, but i managed to conquer a new castle, which also has a cliff bulit inside, as you said...
but im afraid my main HQ will be lost







oh man...i just had to open my mouth!!!!!!they just took my new castle! they had {{{{18}}}}} GOLD DRAGONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

im sick of this level already, i always lose.
and i did everything you told me, well, i'll load the game and try to escape before that guy catches me again. 18 dragons, could you believe it?

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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted January 15, 2005 01:08 PM

Which enemy has all those Dragons? Ufretin? Also, have you gotten rid of any other heroes of theirs? Check your kingdom overview and count up the total number of dragons you have the potential of owning. Maybe then you'll have an idea about whether you can fight back or not.

Oh yes, and do you know if the enemy has all those dragons in one army? Or are they spread amongst heroes?

I'll try to help you further upon your next reply.

-guitarguy
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted January 15, 2005 01:26 PM

Hi there

In those campaigns of SoD, the problem is, the more u wait to get to your opponent, the stronger he gets. So u have to go for him as early as u can.
When i saw the first pics you posted earlier, iīm pretty sure u win this fight very easy.
Let me give you 2 advices for your battles:

1. Enable hex-grid and movementshadow on the battlefield. You will be able to see how far every unit can go when it is their turn, and u can "count" the hex-grid from an enemy unit to see how far it can go. Helps a lot, u will see.

About your fight against Ufretin. As i donīt see the stats of Ufretin, i guess his attack and defense skills are not much higher than yours.
If u r able to reload this fight, re-arrange your troops a bit. First of all, i would split your sharpshooters in 2 stacks of 20. Place one stack on the top, and the other on the very bottom.
On second slot, i would place the dendroids, next pegasi, dwarfes, centaurs, dragons.
Normaly, in first turn, opponents golddragons will either attack the sharpshooters on top (or the dendroids, while blocking the sharpies), or the sharpies on the bottom.
When it is your turn, u should cast slow (if u have, if notm then cast shield) and then wait with the dragons, shoot with the not-blocked sharpies at the golddragons (the other stack of sharpies should also wait) and then wait again with all other units but the dwarves. With them, u attack the Golddragons, they will retaliate, and then you atttack the golddragons with all your units, finally with your greens. I guess the golddragons will be dead after this round, or there will be only 1 more left.
The rest of the fight should not be a problem. Important after the fight is, to reach his castle as soon as possible, so u can get HIS army of next week..

Hope it works
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djwest
djwest

Tavern Dweller
BLAZING OTHER DJ'S SINCE 2000
posted January 15, 2005 03:56 PM
Edited By: djwest on 15 Jan 2005

ok thanks a lot guys. i'll just restart the map, because i have to be fast.


the problem is that i cant rearrange my troops. i can arrange 20 sharpshooters on top, and 20 other sharpshooters on the bottom, but when i'll battle some other hero they will once again rearrange themselves. that is, my arrangement will be ignored and the gold dragon will attack first. i wish i could order my ranged units to attack first, but it seems like no matter where i place the archers, the gold dragon will always be the first unit to attack.

im sorry, i know that you guys waited to see if there's any progress with this mission, but i have to take it step by step.


****update*****
i've restarted the map and combined the tips you gave me(guitar boy) with the tips angel gave me..so basically what i did was to act and think fast, not let him gather a lot of gold dragons. in fact, on the first day of the week i already planned my attack and gathered my troops. ultifer even saw me near him and simply ran away !!!!

i think only eight days have passed, and i already caught ultifer putting his claws on my ponds. so i had to act, i attacked him! it seems like i can beat him, but it won't be easy. look, i got  a lot more draongs, the thing is, im really afraid of his trees, there are tonz of them!




i think im gonna win this. the gold dragon is dead,  the centaures are dead and i've just cast 'blind' on the trees. which means that i gotta get rid of their dwarves and victory is mine, well, i hope..i mean, i know for a fact that that ultifer's castle has like zero defence, or was it like 1 gold dragon and 2 archers? that's nothing. if i conquer the heart, i'll conquer them all

2nd update:

i finally won that guy. i saved the game and quit the program, im waiting for further instructions

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Shenjairo
Shenjairo


Known Hero
Simsalabim
posted January 15, 2005 05:17 PM
Edited By: Shenjairo on 15 Jan 2005

Well, here's my mission. Same as when I tried to help guitarguy earlier you can't really play the same way at all since we have different skills/spells on Gelu, but can hopefully take something from it. You will really suffer from not having logistics, speed is essential.

I try to get the hero up high enough in stats in every map unless I would lose much time, plus to finish it fast. If there's a library of enlightenment somewhere, I won't finish the map without it, but doesn't matter if some +1 thing isn't visited.

Played on Impossible, Gelu's starting stats and skills were: 10/12/4/5

Edit3: Boots of Speed as starting bonus, a must really.

Expert Leadership
Expert Archery
Expert Offense
Expert Logistics
Expert Earth
Basic Wisdom

Starting city has City Hall and the prereqs, centaur, dwarf, elf and dragon buildings. 9 Sharpshooters on Gelu.

Day 1. Take stone and wood mills with Gelu. Built nada because of no money. Sucky heroes in tavern, didn't buy any week 1 since I had 2 already from previous campaign.

2. Windmill and flag dwarf dwelling with other, Gelu the goldmine and marletto tower. Built Citadel.

3. Several stacks of stuff behind some boars and the gempond, will be with Gelu unless stated otherwise. Built Castle.

4. The other gem pond, cleared the cloud area. Gelu's stats rose to 10/17/4/8. Built Capitol.

5. Saw Ufretin, retreated some. Built Enchanted Spring.

6. Built dendroids. Took Ceiliedgh with a level 8 hero from previous campaign with lightning bolt. Built Resource Silo there, built Dendroid building at home. Fought some.

7. Level up with Gelu, advanced wisdom. Castle in new city, unicorn glade at home. Traded 7 elves to Gelu that I bought the day before from the new city, upgraded them to sharps. Have 16 of them.

8. Upgraded dendroids at home (bad, don't do that this early. Never used them). Walked back for more troops.

9. Upgraded homestead. Took the orepit on way home.

10. Curse myself for not buiding resource silo on day 8, build it now.

11. Took sulfur mine and the eq.gloves, built mage guild level 2. Bought out some armies at the home city, now 37 sharps and 3 green dragons. Bought out ammo cart, tent and ballista.

12. Mage guild level 3. Traded away sharp shooters to a barb hero I bought out to attack the fairie dragon with my greens to take the crystal mine. Lost the ammo cart.

13. Traded back sharps to Gelu. Walked to my other town to learn Resurrection and to take with me the elfs and dragons, had almost lost those armies to the computer. Built something, forgot to write it down. Paid less attention from here. Killed a scout hero. Army up to 5 greens and 51 sharps.

14. Built saplings (again wasted).

15. Upgraded centaurs (and so was this). Killed Ufretin who had 20 dendroid guards, 29 dwarfs, 37 centaurs, 47 centaur captains and 2 gold dragons. No losses because of Res. Level up, expert wisdom.

16. Bought dragons and elfs from first two towns, chained them to Gelu, took the south city. My army up to 10 greens and 79 sharps.

17. Accidentally won when going left, had visited red and green tent. Reloaded and walked up to main city since my newly built level 4 mage guild has town portal and even meteor shower.

18. See that I have the most powerful army in a thieves den, Ivor is his best hero 4/9/3/4. Kill stuff while I walk past it.

20. Killed Ivor, I had 99 sharps, 10 greens and 10 war unicorns, he had trash.

22. Level up, had to take pathfinding. Pretty useless in this campaign, but will probably be handy when the heroes meet up in campaign 5 (Please tell me that they get to keep their skills?).

25. Orange went splat.

26-27. Took north middle neutral town and the library of enlightenment. Got level 19 and advanced pathfinding.

28. Took Strongglen for some exp and more campaign points, learned Implosion in the town. I was 1009 exp from maxing out, but it would take a day to get that exp so I finished the map instead. Had upgraded the dragons, 12 goldies, 10 war unicorns, 130ish sharpshooters. Didn't bother to hop around to buy it all out.



I do reload much on stuff that happens the same day because for example losing 3 out of 9 sharps early due to high morale opponent is a disaster. Reloaded sometimes when I walked the wrong way too. Just takes less time. Only had to reload from a previous day one time at least, when he took my second city with a scout and I hadn't bought any troops, loaded and bought dragons and he went away. Reloading from 10 seconds ago > redoing whole map.

I hope it works this next time for you, I think time for you may nearly double before it's done due to speed limits, you can hopefully find town portal in one of the towns though.


Edit: Your post wasn't edited at the time when I started to write the post. Killing him early is good and it should work from there. About who goes first in combat, his gold dragons will always go first because they have the best speed. Splitting some of your troops can make him attack where you want though since he will want to attack the largest stack of sharpshooters, unless he sees some sharpshooters at a war machine and can attack that stack instead.

Edit2: In case you are new to campaigns, remember that there's no idea to start another campaign and play a mission here and there. To unlock the 5th campaign you must defeat one of the original 4 and then continue from that save and beat them all in any order.
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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted January 15, 2005 05:42 PM
Edited By: guitarguy on 15 Jan 2005

You're making considerable progress

Like Shenjairo said, the Gold Dragons attack first because of their speed. In their stat window, you'll see that they've got a number higher than most other creatures in the army. So even if you hide your Sharpshooters under a rock, the dragons will always go first However, if you start a battle with Gold Dragons vs an enemy with Gold Dragons, you'll go first since you initiated the combat. Your dragons will attack first, that is, if the enemy doesn't possess any artifacts that boost creature speed.

As you can see, Shenjairo is the true man you should see when it comes to campaigns. He gets all these cool spells that the rest of us don't always get and has good luck overall. Learn from his walkthrough well. As he said, look out for those important spells that aid movement and compliment your Earth Magic if you have it. And yeah, it's easy to walk the wrong way in this map; I remember going one way and Orange sent a hero behind me to try for my dragon town. Don't let that happen to you!

Quote:
Same as when I tried to help guitarguy earlier


Hey Shenjairo, guess what. I'm still on Crag Hack #4!!! I'm sad

Quote:
guitar boy


"boy"...hahaha that made me crack up the first time! Angelito is a mod, and calling a mod an angel is a great way to gain favor and win pals

Good luck on the rest of the level,
-guitarguy
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Shenjairo
Shenjairo


Known Hero
Simsalabim
posted January 15, 2005 05:58 PM

Hmm, you still can't sneak past into the underground in the lower right corner? Or can't visit the green tent on the island?
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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted January 15, 2005 06:11 PM

Quote:
Hmm, you still can't sneak past into the underground in the lower right corner? Or can't visit the green tent on the island?


I kind of lost motivation to go back and try it. I've had streaks of bad luck where I'd be fatally invaded during week 4; not good for business. It wouldn't have been half as bad if the exact same thing happened when I restarted from scratch (that same evening I played). So I'm just gonna sit out on the level for a while until it decides to play fair

Ironically, though, Gelu #3 and #4 were two levels that I didn't have to restart in order to beat. I just relied on reloads but no complete replays. That explains where all my luck went by the time I reached the C.H. Campaign.

-guitarguy
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Shenjairo
Shenjairo


Known Hero
Simsalabim
posted January 15, 2005 06:36 PM

There was this one time you had an army that I thought could defeat the hero in the lower right corner which is what is needed to win (do have to sneak back to the island though). It may be impossible to defeat the hero he has around his hometown, but even if it isn't there's no need to fight him and I never did. If you check the status on best hero it will show the lower right corner hero, but in a real combat he's a lot easier than the other one and if you still have any saves left I think it may be possible to finish it from there. You were closer than you think.
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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted January 15, 2005 06:46 PM

Quote:
There was this one time you had an army that I thought could defeat the hero in the lower right corner which is what is needed to win (do have to sneak back to the island though). It may be impossible to defeat the hero he has around his hometown, but even if it isn't there's no need to fight him and I never did. If you check the status on best hero it will show the lower right corner hero, but in a real combat he's a lot easier than the other one and if you still have any saves left I think it may be possible to finish it from there. You were closer than you think.


True, true. The downfactor for that game was that there were so many massively powerful AI heroes running around that even if Crag Hack could miraculously beat one of them, he'd be seriously weakened and at the mercy of the other opposition in the area. That's what kept me from getting very far in that game. Damned hordes of DK's.

-guitarguy
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djwest
djwest

Tavern Dweller
BLAZING OTHER DJ'S SINCE 2000
posted January 15, 2005 09:12 PM
Edited By: djwest on 15 Jan 2005

im against hacking too

is this guy fo real? why doesnt he get banned?
ohh i got it all wrong, is CRAG HACK a hacking software?
well anyway, ive just watched white noise. im shaking to my bones!!!

michael keaton is a great actor

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Shenjairo
Shenjairo


Known Hero
Simsalabim
posted January 15, 2005 10:24 PM
Edited By: Shenjairo on 15 Jan 2005

Crag Hack is the main hero in one of the barbarian campaigns, it's called Hack and Slash. No cheatin' and stuff. I just finished the Gelu one, and of the three I've done in SoD it's the easiest one by far. New Beginning is harder, and Hack and Slash is the hardest. I haven't done the Birth of a Barbarian one yet, maybe someone else can rank how hard it is.

Since you are a bit new to the game I would recommend that after you finish the Gelu campaign you may want to do some campaigns in the Armageddon's Blade expansion instead to train your strategies and getting more familiar with the game. Testing any of the other Shadow of Death campaigns right now could be a bit frustrating since they really are hard (No joke, I would not have beat them either if I had tried them shortly after getting the game).
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