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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: mightiest town (w/out magic)?
Thread: mightiest town (w/out magic)? [ This thread is 3 pages long: (1) 2 3 ]
wiggy_wam
wiggy_wam


Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
posted December 12, 2001 03:14 AM bonus applied.
Edited By: Hexa on 28 Jan 2002

mightiest town (w/out magic)?

I've been interested in this topic of "who do you think will be the last standing" ... and I've decided to retest it all ... this time as follows:

20 weeks growth of all structures built.  For example:

Rampart has:
560 centaur captains
400 battle dwarves
280 grand elves
200 silver pegasi
160 dendroid soldiers
80 war unicorns
40 gold dragons

while Castle would have:
560 halbardiers
360 marksmen
340 royal griffins
160 crusaders
120 zealots
80 champions
40 archangels

and Conflux would have:
1000 sprites
240 storm elementals
240 ice elementals
200 energy elementals
160 magma elementals
80 magic elementals
80 phoenixes

note: I gave Necropolis 400 extra skeleton warriors.

testing is done with autocombat, no spells at all, on desert terrain, using stats of 20 20 0 0 ... in order to give Ancient Behemoths / Behemoths an adequate bonus.

First off before I post these results, what are your guesses, votes, or who are you rooting for?

Edit: revived!@
QP for: a number of threads that renewed interest in library




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UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
posted December 12, 2001 03:32 AM

At a guess, Castle will finish first, with Tower or Dungeon a close second.

Conflux will still get hammered, mainly because of its weakness at the crucial 5th and 6th level slots. Magma Elementals just don't hack it in the competition at 5th level, and the main advantage of Magic Elementals (spell immunity) will not be a factor here.

If, as I assume, you line up the units (from top to bottom) level 1 to 7, Fortress will also get mauled for the most part, as the flies and wyverns won't get that critical 'wait, then hit their shooters' in many cases.
____________
Some people say the glass is half full..Some people say it's half empty... I say "What're you asking me to drink?"

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AndiAngelsla...
AndiAngelslayer


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
posted December 12, 2001 05:33 AM

this whole thing is bulls*** anyway, sorry to say it, coz towns build different, they cost different, some towns like fortress have their strenght elsewhere, so of course they get hammered if you just take the units.

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sikmar
sikmar


Promising
Known Hero
The Moonchild
posted December 12, 2001 06:25 AM

It's not a very reliable comparison

Cos 3DO developers consider a lot of things when balancing towns, and not only brute force. Stronghold, for instance, is designed to lead a blitzkrieg against towns like Tower, more powerful but difficult to build. In the same way, a good player can make the Necropolis an unstoppable town, but I think that town will be totally wiped out in your test (20 weeks of flesh harvesting brings you a little more than 400 skeletons).

Anyway, I'm interested in your results, if only to state what is the most valuable army in the brute force award. Just a question, have you considered the effect of the "week of the XXX" in your numbers? During 20 weeks, surely has been one or more "week of the centaur", "week of the imp", etc.
____________
This is my truth. Tell me yours

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted December 12, 2001 11:31 AM

Give me a c...C!  Give me an a...A!  Give me an s...S!  Give me a t...T!  Give me an l...L!  Give me an e...E!  What's that spell?   I said, what's that spell?

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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted December 12, 2001 03:50 PM
Edited By: Thunder on 12 Dec 2001

Magic Elementals weak?
Far from it! They attack all adjacent hexes and are only one-hex wide (so they will reach creatures better than Hydras). Furthermore they are immune to spells. They are the second best creature Conflux has.
4th and 5th levels are weakest.
____________

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wiggy_wam
wiggy_wam


Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
posted December 12, 2001 07:47 PM

Quote:
this whole thing is bulls*** anyway, sorry to say it, coz towns build different, they cost different, some towns like fortress have their strenght elsewhere, so of course they get hammered if you just take the units.


very good point ... which is why I will also test:

- units not upgraded.
- unit numbers by cost ... or 100k of lvl7's, 100k of lvl 6's, etc.

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Oldtimer
Oldtimer


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
posted December 12, 2001 09:14 PM

If you want to make a fair test, you should give yourself a budget of say 100,000 gold for buying creatures and put a limit of say 10 or 12 weeks worth of creatures available.  Then you could see what town is better on auto pilot.
____________
<PLEASE DO NOT WAKE THE OLD MAN!>

"Zzzz...Zzzz...Zzzz..."

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malkia
malkia


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 12, 2001 09:38 PM

Quote:
I've been interested in this topic of "who do you think will be the last standing" ... and I've decided to retest it all ... this time as follows:

20 weeks growth of all structures built.  For example:

Rampart has:
560 centaur captains
400 battle dwarves
280 grand elves
200 silver pegasi
160 dendroid soldiers
80 war unicorns
40 gold dragons

while Castle would have:
560 halbardiers
360 marksmen
340 royal griffins
160 crusaders
120 zealots
80 champions
40 archangels

and Conflux would have:
1000 sprites
240 storm elementals
240 ice elementals
200 energy elementals
160 magma elementals
80 magic elementals
80 phoenixes

note: I gave Necropolis 400 extra skeleton warriors.

testing is done with autocombat, no spells at all, on desert terrain, using stats of 20 20 0 0 ... in order to give Ancient Behemoths / Behemoths an adequate bonus.

First off before I post these results, what are your guesses, votes, or who are you rooting for?




If we knew such things or if we know how we gonna end - then why we have to play? See chess - is having equal forces - but battles end very differently. We are not trying when playing heroes to predict so much, but to enjoy. We can predict - but that prediction goes not farawy than 3 or 4 days (or week in some cases).  Also threads
like this can be generated with millions (just change the
number of creatures). Threads like this - do not give
us hints,

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wiggy_wam
wiggy_wam


Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
posted December 12, 2001 09:39 PM

here's results for all upgraded troops

Results ... 3 games per match:

Fortress vs. Stronghold:
F - 0 ________ S - 3
Ancient Behemoths decided these battles

Fortress vs Necropolis:
F - 2 ________ N - 1
necro had a chance but not much

Fortress vs. Rampart:
F - 2 ________ R - 1
close matches

Fortress vs. Tower:
F - 0 ________ T - 3
fortress had little to no chance

Fortress vs. Inferno:
F - 3 ________ I - 0
inferno was inferior

Fortress vs. Castle:
F - 1 ________ C - 2
fortress was inferior

Fortress vs. Dungeon:
F - 2 ________ D - 1
close matches

Fortress vs. Conflux:
F - 0 ________ C - 3
fortress didn't have a chance

Necropolis vs. Conflux:
N - 0 ________ C - 3
necro had no chance

Necropolis vs. Rampart:
N - 0 ________ R - 3
necro had little chance

Necropolis vs. Tower:
N - 0 ________ T - 3
necro had no chance

Necropolis vs. Castle:
N - 0 ________ C - 3
necro had no chance

Necropolis vs. Inferno:
N - 2 ________ I - 1
close matches

Necropolis vs. Stronghold:
N - 0 ________ S - 3
Ancient Behemoths ruled these matches

Necropolis vs. Dungeon:
N - 0 ________ D - 3
necro had little chance

Conflux vs. Dungeon:
C - 3 ________ D - 0
dungeon was inferior

Conflux vs. Rampart:
C - 3 ________ R - 0
rampart had little chance

Conflux vs. Castle:
Con. - 3 _____ Cast. - 0
close matches

Conflux vs. Inferno:
C - 3 ________ I - 0
inferno had no chance

Conflux vs. Stronghold:
C - 2 ________ S - 1
close matches

Conflux vs. Tower:
C - 0 ________ T - 3
close matches

Stronghold vs. Inferno:
S - 3 ________ I - 0
inferno was inferior

Stronghold vs. Rampart:
S - 0 ________ R - 3
no-one could stop the elves

Stronghold vs. Castle:
S - 0 ________ C - 3
Stronghold was inferior

Stronghold vs. Tower:
S - 0 ________ T - 3
Stronghold was inferior

Stronghold vs. Dungeon:
S - 1 ________ D - 2
close matches

Inferno vs. Castle:
I - 0 ________ C - 3
inferno was inferior

Inferno vs. Tower:
I - 0 ________ T - 3
inferno was inferior

Inferno vs. Rampart:
I - 0 ________ R - 3
inferno had little chance

Inferno vs. Dungeon:
I - 0 ________ D - 3
inferno had little chance

Castle vs. Rampart:
C - 2 ________ R - 1
rampart had little chance

Castle vs. Tower:
C - 3 ________ T - 0
close matches

Castle vs. Dungeon:
C - 3 ________ D - 0
dungeon had little chance

Dungeon vs. Rampart:
D - 0 ________ R - 3
dungeon was inferoir

Dungeon vs. Tower:
D - 0 ________ T - 3
dungeon has almost no chance

Rampart vs. Tower:
R - 1 ________ T - 2
rampart has little chance


totals:
108 matches
------------
Conflux has:
20 wins, 4 losses
the double phoenixes make up for everything

Tower has:
20 wins, 4 losses
titans, naga queens, and arch magi kicked ass

Castle has:
19 wins, 5 losses
archangels, champions, zealots, crusaders, and griffins kicked ass

Rampart has:
15 wins, 9 losses
the extra numbers of pegasi and dendroids help, and gold dragons are great

Stronghold has:
11 wins, 13 losses
Ancient Behemoths are the best lvl 7 one on one (@ 20 20)

Fortress has:
10 wins, 14 losses
Mighty gorgons make up for the weak Wyverns, and hydras aren't bad

Dungeon has:
9 wins, 15 losses
Minotaur kings and Black dragons rule, paralyze from scorps is a bit**

Necropolis has:
3 wins, 21 losses
the dreads ALMOST make up for ghosts' weakness.  But they still NEED more skeletons.

Inferno has:
1 win, 23 losses
don't know what to say.  Looks like they NEED that armageddon.
____________
- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models.  Well ... the ones his age (18-26)  

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Motorschaaf
Motorschaaf


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
posted December 12, 2001 10:41 PM

:)

wiggy i dont know who fought that battes (looks like auto battle) but lemme tell ya whoever did em must have fought like a Gnollupgrader.
(could have been me )


Opensfightwithdispellschaaf

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Zsa
Zsa


Famous Hero
posted December 12, 2001 11:15 PM

Well, I guess it was auto combat - only reasonable explanation .

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malkia
malkia


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 13, 2001 12:28 AM

Quote:
note: I gave Necropolis 400 extra skeleton warriors.



for 20 weeks (5 months) - 400 extra skeleton is too low - tooooo low!

you can make 300-400 skeletons - just your first week, and average like 200 skeletons first week - if map is not so rich with creatures.

So I have to disagree with the test being given here

anyway - how did you test that? I know one russian program for simulating the heroes combat - are you using it?

cheerz
____________

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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted December 13, 2001 12:42 AM

Wiggy...pleeeaaasseee play a game instead of posting meaningless stats lol. It all comes down to the player. Give Andi stronghold and an offense hero, and I will guarantee by the end of the game, you are dead, no matter what u got.

I seen it too often, always on the recieving end lol.
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Myctteakyshd

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TitanMaster
TitanMaster


Adventuring Hero
posted January 22, 2002 01:30 PM

a

a

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Fantusta
Fantusta


Known Hero
who wishes he was high
posted January 22, 2002 08:55 PM

Oh yes, my beautiful Tower decimated the non-blade opposition.  And wiped out that which it tied for first with .
____________
You're unique, just like everyone else.  I'm just better.
I'm challenging preconcieved notions you haven't even thought up yet!

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Moon
Moon


Adventuring Hero
posted January 23, 2002 01:00 PM

You could even take 3 losses less, when moving Mastergenies next to Mastergremlins instead Obsidians.

Fun to see that here, 3 years ago, we tried similar and the Result completly different, when Troops stand otherwise
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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted January 23, 2002 01:29 PM

This strange... Fortress, with such killer specials, won so little battles!
____________
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
-- Isaac Asimov

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Motorschaaf
Motorschaaf


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
posted January 23, 2002 01:40 PM

It allways depends on who fights and what skills the fightin heroes got. ( specially tactics skill is more than usefull for some towns )

Tacticschaaf

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TheJester
TheJester


Adventuring Hero
posted January 23, 2002 11:51 PM

Here are my comments


1st:Conflux-Well, I don't have AB,SoD so I can't make a judgement.
2nd:Tower-And for all of you who doubted ranged attack, who
s laughing now :-D!
3rd:Castle-Angels are the best, Crusaders/Mx Men strike twice; don't forget that. Also, with the +1 morale advantage, I'm sure it was a factor.
4th:Rampart-Aside from Conflux, its a 1-2-3 sweep for the good towns. Suprising though, since 3 of its' units are geared toward opponents anti-magic, and having only one ranged.
5th:Stronghold-Not bad, in the upper half of the (8) towns. Wolf Riders are strong, but must be handled with care.
6th:Fortress-I guess there wasn't enough Mighty Gorgons to make a difference.  The town only has one shooter, a weak one at that, and Drag. Flies are overrated.
7thungeon-Well, its the better of the three evils. A pity since it is the most expensive town.
8th:Necropolis-Not enough Dread knights to make up for Ghosties, not enough Vamp. Lrds. to drain life, and not enough Liches for the Death Cloud to be effective.
9th:Inferno-You could have added on a leigon of Imps, and they would still lose. Magogs suck since they hurt your units as well.
____________

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