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| Thread: Olden Era - what to keep / what to improve / where to innovate |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Pollo2002
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2024 07:35 AM |
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Quote:
How is hero chaining an exploit?
Making troops walk 7 days worth of walking seems the definition of exploit.
Yes ï mean the kind of fog of war where you can see terrain but not heroes.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 12, 2024 10:31 AM |
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Pollo2002] said:
Making troops walk 7 days worth of walking seems the definition of exploit.
I agree. Maybe placing it behind a requirement, like a powerful spell or something similar, could make it feel less like an exploit. Ideas ?
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MurlocAggroB
Known Hero
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posted September 12, 2024 06:20 PM |
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It's not an exploit if it's something allowed by normal game mechanics. Playing good is not an exploit. It's just strategy, just like making your hero faster by garrisoning your slow creatures at the end of the day. Every player and every town can hero chain. I understand there is a casual vs. competitive argument, and I say this as someone who has no desire to play this series against real people, but if you're not gonna use basic strategies then you don't get the rewards those strategies open.
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
channeling capybara energy
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posted September 12, 2024 06:26 PM |
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Chaining is an unfortunate side effect of the game, I'd be more than happy to see it gone/nerfed
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Friend-shaped
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Pollo2002
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2024 07:24 PM |
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MurlocAggroB said:
It's not an exploit if it's something allowed by normal game mechanics. Playing good is not an exploit. It's just strategy, just like making your hero faster by garrisoning your slow creatures at the end of the day. Every player and every town can hero chain. I understand there is a casual vs. competitive argument, and I say this as someone who has no desire to play this series against real people, but if you're not gonna use basic strategies then you don't get the rewards those strategies open.
Garrison your units to make your hero faster is also a clear exploit.
The designer realized this and removed all these exploits in heroes 4, sadly heroes 4 sucked at everything else.
But the good things heroes 4 did was in fact remove all exploits of heroes 3 (regardless if it introduced others by mistakes) and add true fog of war.
Sadly the bad things it did could entail several paragraphs, shadowing those good things.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted September 12, 2024 07:49 PM |
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@pollo2002
Good you already know. Now you understand Hit & Run can't do blocking. There is no such program.
EDIT
Heroes IV 
Which is more difficult H3 or H4?
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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esparado87
Hired Hero
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posted September 20, 2024 02:53 AM |
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Keep the warfare unit system from heroes 7, i liked that they tried to make them different (with different functions/tactic) and not have all factions have ballista and healing tent
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TrueMefista
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 23, 2024 02:08 PM |
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If AI can not be made too clever, atleast make it get morale extra turn after destroying our unit stack, so it can not be fooled with 1 unit.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 24, 2024 09:39 AM |
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Very clever idea Never even thought of it.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 24, 2024 12:27 PM |
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Well, after some extra thoughts about it I'm afraid it won't be very much appreciated by majority of (competitive) players. Yet this idea can be beautifully and - what is quite important - painlessly woven into the Olden Era battle mechanics. Let killing a stack just increase a chance to get a second turn (Morale) by a tangible amount of percents (say, 20%). It will still be possible to use single unit stacks, but it will be way more risky
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Hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted September 24, 2024 12:49 PM |
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In H7 that was the case exactly! If a stack died wholly (1-100000 no matter how many unit was in it) the enemy who Lost that stack get -10 morale and your army got +20 for 1 turn . Also in H6-H7 only half plus damage Luck gave also Morale turn halved plus damage with half movement for that morale turn.mainly for balancing. Too much plus turns with 100% damage movement again can be unbalanced.
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Hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted September 24, 2024 12:51 PM |
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Also the flanking bonus damage System was a good idea sometimes ín H7. Some optimizing would be needed for that though.
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Hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted September 24, 2024 12:55 PM |
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In H6-7 also many unit hadd active or passive skills. Even a tier 1 unit around a number of 150 can helped much in a hard battle.
And what are you thoughts about the control zone System in those games? Also about the 7 magic schools? Not too much they were?
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
channeling capybara energy
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posted September 27, 2024 10:04 PM |
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Looks like they're keeping chaining, but there will be optional alternatives! nice
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Friend-shaped
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LordCameron
Famous Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted October 12, 2024 07:32 PM |
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TrueMefista said:
If AI can not be made too clever, atleast make it get morale extra turn after destroying our unit stack, so it can not be fooled with 1 unit.
You need to be hired for Olden Era, that's brilliant
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What are Homm Songs based on?
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Hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted October 12, 2024 07:46 PM |
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In Heroes 7 in this case the enemy had -20 morale for all troops and you got +10 morale for all troops for 1 turn
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted October 13, 2024 05:34 PM |
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I always thought it would be fitting if morale had an effect on the adventure map. Imho, it makes sense that an army with great morale would have the will to march on a little bit further; and vice versa, an army with low morale would march a bit less. Nothing substantial, but a small boost/reduction for keeping your army in good/low spirits. While also fitting the theme of undead continuously marching onwards, having no morale at all.
Sample:
Hero with positive morale gains 5% (~1 point) extra movement at start of turn.
Hero with MAX positive moral gains 10%(*~2 points*) extra movement at start of turn.
Hero with negative morale loses 5% (~1 point) of movement at start of turn.
Hero with MAX negative moral loses 10%(~2 points) of movement at start of turn.
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Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
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posted October 17, 2024 08:19 PM |
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Personally I didn't care for the morale mechanic in heroes 7, it made snowballing neutrals way too easy. I don't think 1 stacks are an overpowered strategy if you have an AI that knows how to deal with them with AoE effects and such. Even for fights against neutrals that can't deal with it besides fighting them one one at a time, that's all a human player could do with the same tools. It's not really an abuse of the AI, just a clever usage of the game's mechanics, which is what the strategy genre is all about.
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Syth1984
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 06, 2024 04:22 PM |
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Rimgrabber said:
Personally I didn't care for the morale mechanic in heroes 7, it made snowballing neutrals way too easy. I don't think 1 stacks are an overpowered strategy if you have an AI that knows how to deal with them with AoE effects and such. Even for fights against neutrals that can't deal with it besides fighting them one one at a time, that's all a human player could do with the same tools. It's not really an abuse of the AI, just a clever usage of the game's mechanics, which is what the strategy genre is all about.
A mixed neutral approach would deal with this quite nicely.If we could define some pairings for creatures such as mages+golems archer+swordsman zombies+skeletons+Liches etc that would prove far more challenging and less prone to exploitation.
Apart from that I suggest to include a captain for creatures stacks that have grown past some point. Captain quarters provided such "captains" in Heroes 2.A neutral hero that could cast lvl2 spells and could have some skills.
Thirdly creatures could start not opposing directly the army but like treasuries they can be sometimes situated closer to the army or placed near an obstacle such as trees or pond etc.
These would spice things up.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted December 30, 2024 09:47 AM |
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I would love to see good map and campaign editor with full modding support. Something like StarCraft 2 has: you can create a mod via the editor, and it allows you to change a lot in the gameplay, without affecting campaigns or singleplayer/multiplayer maps. Hopefully, the editor should have some script language. If we get that, it would be awesome.
However, the HoMM IP is still owned by Ubi...
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