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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Sir Stiven -- HC's Heyoka?
Thread: Sir Stiven -- HC's Heyoka? [ This thread is 6 pages long: (1) 2 3 4 5 6 ]
Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted November 09, 2003 02:08 AM bonus applied.
Edited By: Peacemaker on 9 Nov 2003

Sir Stiven -- HC's Heyoka?

Not to be deterred by your unusually kind comment in HC Tell the Truth Thread this morning, I’ve been thinking on you a lot lately Sir Stiven.  I think I’ve figured out what’s going on.

What is a Heyoka?

A Heyoka is a sacred clown.  He is a member of traditional Lakota society who is moved through dreams to become a Heyoka.

A Heyoka stands for contrariness.  Another word – the English word – for a Heyoka is “contrary.”  

Heyokas often speak and walk backwards. They act in ridiculous, obscene, and comical ways, especially during sacred ceremonies.  They frequently say the opposite of what they mean.  They are painless, fearless, and often dress in a bizarre and ludicrous manner, somewhat of an "anti-natural" nature if you will.  

By mirroring all of our hatreds, doubts, insecurities, fears and weaknesses, a Heyoka forces us to examine what we really are, where we are weak, where we must become stronger.  The true gift of Heyoka is the ability to laugh at one's Self; not to take one’s Self too seriously.

The Heyoka will make a joke at the sacrifice of his own reputation and ego so that others can learn humility and compassion.  He will do things to others what make him, well, not very liked in the community.  He will play pranks on others -- not to make us feel embarrassed and stupid, but to show us ways to be compassionate – in essence, ways not to behave.  A Heyoka will make you wonder if what they are saying, or doing, is actually correct.  The point is for you to figure it out for yourself.  Each time you are confronted by a Heyoka, you will be confronted with the challenge of figuring out what is going on, why he would treat you this way.  

It is an honor to be singled out by a Heyoka.  Others will watch the encounter, and grow from the lesson of being confronted with the idea of how they would react if they were the person the joke was played on.

The Heyoka is able to master the art of balancing the sacredness with irreverence.  He is there to remind us not to let our energy get drained on other people's problems, to stop being so serious and crack a smile.  The true lesson is always to assume somebody is a Heyoka when they are cruel to you or treat you badly, and react accordingly.  Whether or not they  actually are one then becomes irrelevant.  The drama of your feelings is therefore always diminished, and you always respond in a disarming and compassionate way, no matter what happens in your life.

I have been confronted by a Heyoka.  It happened one day years ago while I was at Sundance.  This was a particularly contentious Sundance where the community was becoming divided over so many mixed-bloods (like myself) were there and many were dancing.

I saw this man, sitting across the Sundance Arbor, staring at me, for a long time.  He had long black braids (well, everybody there did) and thick glasses.  Then he got up, walked straight across the Sundance Arbor in the middle of the ceremony (ordinarily a totally taboo thing to do), and came and sat on the bench next to me.

“I didn’t see you over here,” he said.  “I don’t think you belong here.  You’re ugly and I don’t think I like you very much.  You don't seem to understand what's happening here at all.  I hope we never cross paths again.  Oh and, by the way, you smell bad.”

I turned and watched his face as he spoke.  As I started letting the smile of recognition that I had just been approached by a real Heyoka creep into my lips, the same smile started to wash across his face as well.

“I am honored, sir,” I nodded and said, my smile now quite broad.  “Thank you for your visit.”

Whereupon, he got up.  I stuck my hand out to shake his, and he took my hand, winked, and walked away.

Oh my God, I thought to myself.  They really exist!!!

Thank you Sir Stiven, for reminding me of that very important event in my life.  From now on, you shall be HC’s Heyoka.  You are a Sacred person in this role.  You honor all of us in your Heyoka ways.

Signed,

PACEMAKER

Aho Heyokah!
Make me laugh so I'll be human again.
Allow me to see my crooked path
And the Trickster as my friend.

Aho Heyokah!
How contrary you can be,
Yet you make me learn.

Aho Heyokah!
The jokes on me,
But next time it's your turn!

-- Jamie Sams



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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted November 09, 2003 12:58 PM

hmmm so now the "ive sent one IM to you so now i know you" woman is trying to judge me again

Thing is, that if a thread like this came from someone i know i might just have found it funny.

But since it isnt i just see this as another try poor way of trying to get mine and the rest of the communities attention.

Sacred clown you say? well i wont hesitate to make fun of someone as long as it is in a not personal manner, im also not unfamiliar to make fun out of myself... i like to see happy faces around me.

But even if you dont know me personally i really dont understand a comment like
Quote:
They frequently say the opposite of what they mean.

If there is anyone here at HC that always speak his mind its gotta be me lol. So im sorry pacemaker, if you wanna make me suit some weirdo character atleast look for someone that could work. Not find a character in a book and think "wow im sure i can get alot of attention if i write a thread about Stiven being close to him" lol.


So im sorry pacemaker, but i am to deny this happy hannukah heyokah title of yours... And instead of making the same mistake a 3rd time please get to know someone before you start giving out the honorary titles lol.


On a sidenote this is the 7th thread having my name on it, will go nice with me best poster award

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted November 09, 2003 02:39 PM

Stiven is a clown lol, remember what ya did with the whole Nintendo Stiven ?
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hamsi128
hamsi128


Promising
Supreme Hero
tosser tavern owner
posted November 09, 2003 03:00 PM

tossmaker :)

people who have not capacity to deal with stiven's toss find stupid titles for him.. i offer these kind of persons to go to doctor ... if you judge a person seriously on a virtual mesage board you have really serious problems.. and if you give red star to this post all i can say that our lovely mods use drugs

rest in peace and leave alone brotherhood of tossership
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Nebuka
Nebuka


Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
posted November 09, 2003 04:04 PM

Members appreciation threads are not allowed!
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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted November 09, 2003 04:25 PM

Something tells me your deep thinking and intelligence are wasted here PM
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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted November 09, 2003 05:32 PM

Hehe..  

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted November 09, 2003 05:33 PM

Could the mod (admin) responsible for handing out that QP please IM me. I wanna discuss it, and you dont want me to do it here in public.

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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted November 09, 2003 05:47 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 9 Nov 2003

<GRINS>

Quote:
Third, I will say again-for the record- that I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky!


LOL!!! LichKing, does this mean your whole post is contrary???  I suspect it is a Heyoka post as well, and you should not have meant to be quite so complimentary...????  

(BTW I just figured out that you and Lich_King are two different people -- so sorry for the earlier confusion)

Heyoka Stiven --

Again you honor me in your attacks and insults, and will do so to anyone in whose bonnet you try to continue being a bee!!!  Your rejection of the Heyoka title is a typical Heyoka move, that will keep us all on our feet and thinking for a while my friend!  Brilliant!!!  You have once again set your own fine Heyoka example of how not to take ourselves too seriously, and have shown us all many times that we should not pass judgment on people in your many judgmental posts!  

But then I guess that's my point isn't it???

MODS:  Now I'm really confused.  Is the QP a Heyoka move as well????

<EDIT>

Signed,

TOSSMAKER

(Hee hee hee good one Hamsi)

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bort
bort


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
posted November 09, 2003 06:38 PM

It's a message board.  

Don't take it, or yourself so seriously.;
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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted November 09, 2003 07:05 PM

Aye, otherwise we end in one of those horrible flame wars... again
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted November 09, 2003 10:17 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 9 Nov 2003

Thanks for clarification, LichKing.

Hamsi, I have now made a doctor's appointment.

Signed,

PACEMAKER / TOSSMAKER
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Hexa
Hexa


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted November 09, 2003 10:29 PM

Quote:
Could the mod (admin) responsible for handing out that QP please IM me. I wanna discuss it, and you dont want me to do it here in public.


Moi!@
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted November 09, 2003 10:53 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 9 Nov 2003

Hexa, you really, really shouldn't have.

Now, off to my doctor's appointment!

<EDIT>

Oops -- almost forgot

SIGNED,

PACEMAKER / TOSSMAKER
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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted November 09, 2003 10:55 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Could the mod (admin) responsible for handing out that QP please IM me. I wanna discuss it, and you dont want me to do it here in public.


Moi!@


Oh dear, here comes fun
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Nidhgrin
Nidhgrin


Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
posted November 09, 2003 11:21 PM

Where have I read this before...  Well well this is never gonna stop is it? :/ *sigh*
have a bar of chockie people, smile didn't work? have some more chockie, smile still didn't work? hmm, rob the store and have all the chockie available still not okay? hmm better check the expiration date


Seriously, the only two people who are really fair and responsible in this matter in my opinion are Stiven and Romana.  Sometimes hard words are spoken, sometimes things break between people, so badly it takes years before those wounds heal.  Sometimes more years than one human life is long but either way, even without knowing the precise details of what has gone sour between you two, I think atm you are both dealing with the situation in a mature way.  Peacefully, or relatively at least, avoiding each other, not crossing blades every time yous see each other.  Maybe some day things will get better, maybe not, only time can tell

It doesn't have to be like this though :/ to anyone who ever attempted to change anything about this situation I know you did so with the best intentions but without knowing what really happened I don't think it's wise to force this situation in any direction.  Leave it be I'm sure Romana and Stiven would appreciate some peace too.  It may surprise you to hear I call both Romy and Stefan my friends, both are special and very nice people, different true but I don't think that means I can be friend with one and can't be friends with the other

To those who are wondering... I'm not coming back am just passing by I occasionally do but usually don't post.  It's damn nice to see some of you tossers back though  Some tosses so good maybe I should put them up on the wall in a frame heheh

~Niddy out~

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Nebuka
Nebuka


Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
posted November 10, 2003 12:03 AM

Nice to see you Nid, even if you're only visiting.
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted November 10, 2003 12:26 AM

the original tossers hehe.
I should of known Hexa give a QP for first person that insults Stiven here only because of an old grudge going on which should of ended yrs ago.
Shameful .
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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted November 10, 2003 12:28 AM

Amusing though huh?
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted November 10, 2003 01:58 AM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 10 Nov 2003

Well well well... What a firestorm this has started.

Nidhgrin, it is wonderful, as always, to hear from you.  I want you to know that of all the people I have encountered, you stand out in my mind as one of the most peaceful, loving souls I have ever had the pleasure of encountering.  For these reasons, I often think of your posts when I am in a difficult situation.  I think of you as a role model, truly.  I think your level of pacifism is an honorable, admirable thing.  While I sit slighty (or not so slightly) on the other side of the line from individuals such as yourself, I look upon people like you with a substantial degree of awe and respect.

It really does sadden me that I have dissappointed you in any way.  I think you must know how genuine these sentiments are my friend.  At least I hope so.

But the content of your message indicates that perhaps you have not thoroughly ingested the point of my message here.

This had nothing to do with Romana, at least at first.  Whatever you are assuming as the basis for your assessment of this situation is inaccurate.  I did not know about any history between Stiven and Romana when I started this thread.  I do now, only superficially, because you and others have pointed it out to me.

I say this to all of you, if I have been in any way disingenuous about the Sacredness of the acts of Stiven and other Heyokas in our lives, then perhaps I have strayed.  I take Heyokas very seriously.  It was the very anger I felt at some of his posts (which were directed at me) that made me stop and think and reflect.  It was that anger that reminded me of that old day one day, when I was approached by a true Heyoka.  That's when I realized there was a valuable lesson to be shared here.

The whole point here is to take cruelty as a Spiritual exercise; to turn something mean or hateful or cruel into something good.  It is not what happens to us, it is what we make of it.

So if I have turned this into a joke, or if people are making it into that, just stop and think for a minute.  Given my description of the Heyoka way, who of us has not been a Heyoka, to someone, in their lives, at some moment???  What do we learn from our cruelty?  If someone is honored by our cruelty, haven't they taken something bad we have done, and turned it to something truly Sacred?

Let me be specific here.  I will give you a rather embarrassing example of how this works.  

I am growing old.  I know that.  As my age advances on me, I become ever more insecure at the loss of the allure I once had.  My reliance on that allure is an ego weakness of mine, and always has been.  But it took Stiven's comments to bring it onto my radar screen.

(This, by the way, is only one of many examples.  In isolation it honestly should have been no big deal. But in all honesty, it is nonetheless probably the one that pushed me into finally responding as I have.)

Stiven is very perceptive, always.  He picked up on that weakness of mine and ran with it in RL photos.  It hurt me.  It made me feel insecure.  Therein lies the lesson.  Because of Sir Stiven, I was forced to look at that.  He turned my attention to something about which I am unhappy by making a public comment about it; by ridiculing me.  Because of my friend Stiven, I have now -- just now -- publicly made an admission that I would never have considered making, were it not for the actions he has taken.

Now, if I can benefit from this habit of his, why can't I point out, to others he might simply send walking away, quietly hurt by his comments, the Sacredness of that action, and show them how truly Sacred such actions can be???

I acknowledge your defense of Stiven.  He is a brother. Frankly, I would have expected nothing less of you.  

On the other hand, can you answer me this question?  Why is it that Stiven can perpetually, repeatedly say rude, cruel, intrusive, insulting and hurtful things -- to several of us apparently -- as a general modus operandi -- and you remain silent and say nothing until one of us finally speaks out in response to all of it, even (at least hopefully) in a comparatively benign and (also hopefully) a productive way???

I agree that the ultimate scenario would be for individuals who simply cannot get along to avoid one another.  That would be ideal.  What do you do with someone who lurks around and deliberately pounces on peoples' posts in ways he knows they will find cruel, hurtful, intrusive, annoying, and insulting?  

Nidhgrin, I would hope you have read enough from me to have learned that this is not something I would deliberately aggravate another person into doing.  I typically try to avoid such things.  I do however, have quite a history with bullies, as you might have picked up on from a recent poem you noticed of mine.  That history runs much, much deeper than you might imagine, my friend. One thing I have learned is that if you simply ignore a bully who refuses to leave those around him alone, people end up getting perenially abused, mistreated and wounded.  The chilling effect sets in, and a culture of fear begins to spread, because people simply do not like being publicly ridiculed, by anyone.  

For this kind of thing I have utterly no tolerance.  So if I have a bit too much of a Steven Segal-type attitude about all this, perhaps that is where it came from.  If I am overreacting, then it is simply another part of the Heyoka lesson I am supposed to be learning from all this.  For better or worse, this is my reaction to such treatment.  Alas, it is the best that I can do with it.

If you think I am exaggerating, I can tell you with a good degree of confidence that there are others who have left, or have considered leaving, because they did not want to deal with the BS.  People are probably usually afraid to admit that; they just simply leave.  But I am not afraid to admit it, and I will tell you I will not tolerate much more; it is simply not worth it to me.  I wonder, if I asked, who else out there would be willing to admit they feel reluctant to post on occasions because of such treatment.  Don't get me wrong -- I'm all for his freedom to post.  But that freedom must run both ways, and this is my response.
 
Meanwhile, instead of simply quietly walking away hurt and offended by his ongoing assaults, why shouldn't we take the opportunity to learn from the gift of them???  And why shouldn't I point out to Stiven the inverse relationship that he represents, and its effect on many of us, and try to turn bad, hurtful intent into something good???

For these reasons, though I respect your opinion highly, I am still reluctant to delete this thread.  I think it has spurred a very important conversation about how we all relate, what we really mean to one another, what we can learn from one another, and mostly, how important Sir Stiven might actually be, to all of us in this Community, and to the people whose real lives he touches,if we try to see this whole thing in a different way.

Thank you for your comments and input my friend.  I hope I have restored the original seriousness of this idea, and any respect that may have thusfar been damaged.

<EDIT>

One more thing -- perhaps I have become Stiven's Heyoka through this whole exercise as well.  Stiven, my friend, let us learn what we can from one another.
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