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Heroes Community > Turban Tribunal > Thread: S P A M
Thread: S P A M This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
soccerfeva
soccerfeva


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
posted November 20, 2003 04:17 PM

Quote:
Pity the quality of reading material has fallen so much here


You're right !! So HC in your opinion is a place to read?

Now this is not the place for you to read quality material. You would be better off reading a book from some top class writers. Or some good journalists provide you with a different reading dimension and enrich your mind.

Not here. It's discussion,spam,crap,quality and everything stuffed here.


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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted November 20, 2003 07:21 PM

One thing I'd like to see is that members who post in threads that are spammed to death asks the Moderator to remove said spam, send in an IM or by sending in a post to request this in the thread.

I've received very few requests to this effect myself.

Do notice if you just say: "This forum is spammed to death" then moderator will not go through all threads to try and find the posts you're speaking about.

If we want to take a stronger position against spam, then we need to remove it as it is posted.
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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted November 20, 2003 08:20 PM

I have asked mods in the past to get rid of some spam in threads that I have made. These requests have been ignored.

I have never asked you Djive, but your forums are almost always spam free.

The problem is in the tavern. I never go here anymore. The tavern to me has become a place where all the threads that don't fit anywhere go. I could bet that any good thread in Tavern could go into one of our other forums.

By sporadic spamming can be fun, but we need to enforce anything above that.

I think that perhaps we should make a new rule. This will be a maximum posts per day limit. This will of course depend on your QP level.

We have the statistic available in our accounts that determines the number of QP's per post. I think that this level should determine how many posts per day a user can make.

For example, 1 QP per 100 posts gives no restrictions of posts per day.

1 QP per 100-200 posts gives a restriction of 8 posts per day.

1 QP per 200-500 posts gives a restriction of 5 posts per day.

1 QP per 500+ posts gives a restriction of 3 posts per day.

This means that members who try to make lots of posts to increase post count will have a high post count and a low number of QP's. These people won't be able to post 10-20 posts a day and flood the forum.

This should apply to all members who have 4 or more stars. People with 3 stars obviously don't create much of a problem.

Members who try to get QP's or don't spam all the time will eventually get QP's.
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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted November 20, 2003 08:42 PM

Merely piling up restrictions will annoy people instead of bringing order to the place.
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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted November 21, 2003 12:38 AM

How many members do you know that rarely spam, have like 1000 posts or more and like 1 or 2 QP's?

I see very few. Maybe this isn't exactly how it would work, but if you restrict the number of posts per day this will make users less likely to waste a post for spamming and increasing post count.
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Gangrail
Gangrail


Promising
Famous Hero
Dead Man
posted November 21, 2003 02:47 AM
Edited By: Gangrail on 20 Nov 2003

I think that each section of HC should have its set of COC concerning spam.  Each mod set the deffinition of spam in that section.  That way posters know what is determined spam in the section they post in since spam in 1 section is not spam in another.  This is really the only way I see to handle it since your opinion of spam may not and probably don't match mine.  Then we run into another problem.  Do we delete all spam or do we determine that this spam is funny and keeps this thread alive while deleting others? This is just my opinion on this and I am sure it don't match a good bit of yours.
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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted November 21, 2003 03:14 AM

Spam is not a problem... when people don't come to HC so they can spam and increase their post count.

Members who joke around occasionally is good. It keeps the mood of the website light and friendly.
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Wolfman
Wolfman


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
posted November 21, 2003 03:35 AM

I think we're fairly friendly, am I right?
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Nebuka
Nebuka


Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
posted November 21, 2003 03:40 PM
Edited By: Nebuka on 21 Nov 2003

For example, 1 QP per 100 posts gives no restrictions of posts per day.

1 QP per 100-200 posts gives a restriction of 8 posts per day.

1 QP per 200-500 posts gives a restriction of 5 posts per day.

1 QP per 500+ posts gives a restriction of 3 posts per day.


To hell with discussion forums!

There shouldn't be any restriction based on qp's.
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tigerangelz
tigerangelz


Known Hero
Angelic Tigress
posted November 21, 2003 04:54 PM

Quote:
I think we're fairly friendly, am I right?

If you're referring to HC in general, I would rethink that.

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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted November 21, 2003 08:27 PM

How many members do you know that rarely spam, have like 1000 posts or more and like 1 or 2 QP's?

I see very few. Maybe this isn't exactly how it would work, but if you restrict the number of posts per day this will make users less likely to waste a post for spamming and increasing post count.

Edit:

I've seen that Tavern is full of spam. Everyone knows it. But how far do you think mods should go with reducing spam?

What are your favourite colours?

What are you doing?

Sentences...

Everyone of these threads are basically talking about nothing of any importance. Yes I did post one of them. But that was when I used to spam all the time. But why would anyone want to revive some of THESE threads? Thank you Dingo for reviving What are you doing? Reviving spam threads is pointless and IMO is worse than spamming itself.

Do you think threads like this should be simply deleted?
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Khaelo
Khaelo


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
posted November 21, 2003 08:33 PM bonus applied.
Edited By: Khaelo on 21 Nov 2003

Use the Wastelands

(in reference ONLY to Tavern spam):
It seems to me that people are somewhat reluctant to start threads in the Wastelands.  There is also a trend, as RedSoxFan3 mentions, of reviving mediocre threads from the Tavern.  Here are my opinions and ideas:

1)  Revived Tavern threads of questionable quality should not be deleted right out but should be moved to the Wastelands.

2)  The mods of the Tavern should also be in charge of the Wastelands (those who aren't already, that is ).  Threads should be more liberally moved between the Tavern and the Wastelands.

3) The Wastelands should be reconfigured so that threads do not get deleted on the basis of creation date but rather recent activity. Specifically, I think that the forum should be allowed to grow to a page and threads that hit the second page are the ones that get deleted.

This will accomplish a number of things:

1)  People often respond to revived threads, regardless of quality, but thread necromancy really irritates others.  If zombie threads are moved to the Wastelands, A) they are out of the Tavern B) people can still respond freely, and C) the author and/or reviver has an opportunity to object before the thread is deleted.

2)  Having the same set of mods for both Tavern and Wastelands will ally the two areas more closely.  Right now, the Wastelands is an orphan junkpile while the Tavern is an overstuffed micellaneous bin.  Also, there won't be any issues of usurping power/losing power by moving threads from one area to another (I don't know if this is a concern for mods, just speculation here).  Finally, with the proposed changes to the Wastelands, the more mods the merrier.  

3)  The proposed system for Wastelands cleaning will promote more active use of the Wastelands.  As it stands now, there is a single thread in the Wastelands, which was last posted to three days ago.  Allowing a full page of threads will make the forum appear more active, reducing reluctance to make new threads there (as opposed to in the Tavern).  It also grants the threads a longer shelf life, avoiding the looming fear of beloved post count going down in a mere week.  If the thread is active enough, the participants' postcount will remain high for a longer period of time.  If it is very popular, it may be moved to the Tavern for permanent residence, provided people are okay with seeing it rise again a year later!  (Posts that say nothing and exist solely to "bump" a thread would still be deleted, but they wouldn't be as disruptive to the forum's activity).  Finally, watching for a second page to appear in the Wastelands will be easier on the mods than trying to keep track of when each thread was created and counting off a week.

======
Tavern threads that IMO are candidates for the Wastelands:
*[url=http://www.heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=3&TID=10660]I just don't get i![/url]
*Things mothers say
*Spanking the Monkey (arguable; it's a game, after all)
*oxymorons
*Should we fire this...
*Time Taken
*Look at KittenAngel...
*[url=http://www.heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=3&TID=10595]Lord Hart's blond moments[/url] + PSSST! Wanna hear a joke? + How funny is this = one Tavern "jokes" thread, three Wastelands one-joke threads.
*bE sCaReD...
*What would happen if we all became mods?
*Free Signatures
*A question to all you smart people out there
*I wanna go to Olympics!!

And that's just through page 5...
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Dingo
Dingo


Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
posted November 22, 2003 03:43 AM

Quote:
For example, 1 QP per 100 posts gives no restrictions of posts per day.

1 QP per 100-200 posts gives a restriction of 8 posts per day.

1 QP per 200-500 posts gives a restriction of 5 posts per day.

1 QP per 500+ posts gives a restriction of 3 posts per day.


Bad Idea, Qps are too hard to get.  3 posts per day?  Have you gone Mad?  I can't work like that.  We already have a floodprotect and thats enough.  3 posts a day is pathetic.  HC would become boring and useless, people would leave.

Don't mess with me, I'm the Spaminator...
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted November 22, 2003 12:06 PM

Another good and constructive post by Khaelo. QP applied.

While it will be up to Tavern mods to actually want to continue with this idea, I think it has some good merits.

While Tavern is the main candidate for moving threads to the Wastelands other forums could also consider doing this in some cases.

The reasons I don't move threads to Wastleands right now is that I feel that I can just as well delete the Thread. So problem is the Wasteland policy to delete the thread regardless of activity.

I'd say the move should mostly be done for recent threads, on the first pages of a forum. If a poor thread is further down then the Mod should primarily consider to delete it instead of moving it.
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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted November 24, 2003 05:58 AM

Quote:
Quote:
For example, 1 QP per 100 posts gives no restrictions of posts per day.

1 QP per 100-200 posts gives a restriction of 8 posts per day.

1 QP per 200-500 posts gives a restriction of 5 posts per day.

1 QP per 500+ posts gives a restriction of 3 posts per day.


Bad Idea, Qps are too hard to get.  3 posts per day?  Have you gone Mad?  I can't work like that.  We already have a floodprotect and thats enough.  3 posts a day is pathetic.  HC would become boring and useless, people would leave.

Don't mess with me, I'm the Spaminator...


I used to think QP's were hard to get. They are hard to get if most of your posts go into tavern and you don't try to contribute to the HOMM forums or give new ideas to Turban Tribunal. It only takes the effort. With enough posts that give effort to the community instead of spamming in tavern. Then yes it is really hard to get QP's.

The contribution of thoughtful discussion is the way to get QP's. But isn't that the purpose of QP's in the first place? It's to give people incentives for thoughtful discussion. Even if you don't get a QP for one thoughtful post, you will get one eventually if you keep trying.

I used to post mostly in tavern. Most of my posts were in word games. In over a year and a half, I think I got 3 QP's. Since this past July I have received 7. That's 7 QP's in 4 months. Opposed to 3 in over a year and a half. If you look at members like Bort, Cat, and Oldtimer yes they have posted a lot in tavern, but this was back when tavern was funny. Humor is one of the things that made tavern such a great place. It was certainly spamming, but it made it more of a community where the members knew each other.

What's great about these members is that they would make the thoughtful posts and spam sporadically when it was funny.

Restricting the posts per day had the intentions of making people who spam all the time think before they post 1 or 2 useless lines in every thread in the entire forum. If people only have to wait 90 sec. Which is about how long it takes to scan/read a thread. They will post way too much spam.

Maybe that system is a little too restrictive. But I think that there should be some penalty to members who spam far more than they contribute thoughtful posts in the Heroes boards.

IMO even if a member makes a lot of funny posts, they should still be required to make some thoughtful posts.

Another rule in the FAQ is about lamers. These are people post more for the sake of HC, then to talk about Heroes. This is my whole thing about making thoughtful posts.
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Khaelo
Khaelo


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
posted November 24, 2003 06:37 AM

Restricting posts per day based on the post/qp ratio unfairly penalizes the people who like to play word games and post in the light chatter threads (those on the level of the "what sort of XYZ are you?").  Those aren't thoughtful, deep discussions, but they're not really spam, either.  They're certainly not the problem that sparked the creation of this thread.  The restrictions would limit word game players' participation both in their games and in the rest of the forum.

At this point, I'd feel odd "telling on" all the spam I see.  Certain members produce spam on a regular basis, sometimes up to half a dozen posts per spammer in a given session.  How is that to be reported?  A series of tell-tale IMs would get very old, very fast for both mod and reporter.  E-mails would be even worse.  I guess it sounded simpler for the mods to just patrol for spam.  In my inexperienced opinion, thread necromancy is particularly easy to spot.  Obviously, I don't know anything about modding, though.  If the mods need help, maybe we should have a police-blotter thread for members to report spam (the individual reports would have to be deleted along with the spam)?
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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted November 24, 2003 09:18 AM

I never said restricting posts per day wasn't completely fair. It was just one idea. Basically we need a form of punishment to spamming that is concrete. Getting into judgement issues creates inconsistany and a lack of enforcement. We need something to point at that says "These are the rules on spamming!"

Basially, I think that we need to enforce rules on flooding a forums with spam.

If we use Khelo's idea of setting the rules in each forum with a sticky thread, then we will know what is allowed and what is not. There should be rules on spamming and its consequences.

There are other issues I'd like to bring up. This is flooding. Many people see flooders on a regular basis especially tavern. Most of the time when I go in tavern, I see like 7 or 8 threads that go straight down the page where every last post is by the same user.
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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted November 25, 2003 02:53 AM

I was going to  wait for inputs from hydra and mr turban aswell but because of different reasons they have not been able to post yet so ima respond to whats been written so far.

@celfious: I believe you and me have different idea of what spam is, while you believe it can be a post thats contributive in the way that it changes topics i believe that spam is just a way to increase post count. The content of a spam post is not contributive to anything whatsoever, what i refer to as your idea of "spam" is off topic posts. Those i have no problems either with though.

But its nice to see that there are different views of what spam is and that it can be discussed, that was one of the reasons i asked the first question because i wanted everyone to state their opinion of what spam is before they motivated the rest... that would IMO reduce the number of misunderstandings which fortunaly also seems to be the case.

@khaelo: great posts.

It seems like you have chosen a harsher way then i have when it comes to handling of spam.

I must say that i had the same idea first, but the problems with deleting all "spam" IMO is that spam is such a relative thing.

And for all spam to be removed all moderators have to have a common ground for what spam is..and not. Because if they dont the members here who have tendencys to spam will abuse this.

But if the mods can work out a spam deleting system then it would be great. I personally would have no problems whatsoever that all spam should be removed and i believe penalties should be a way to enforce this, because as much as some members would like to have more yellow stars im sure they dont want it at the cost of red ones.

Concerning the possible change of Volcanic Wastelands i couldnt agree more really. Well put.

personally ive never understood having a forum which sole purpose is threads to stay there for a week. To me its just a waste of a forum and an excuse to post spam posts instead of doing something else.

But as said i really like khaelos suggestions on how to make VW a forum that would make sense. Also having the same mods is a great idea since its easier for them to find a common ground for this and how to handle things.

It will make VW an actual place to visit now and then instead of just clicking it through when really bored. But most importantly it will make tavern a better place.

IMO moving all of these "not so very good threads" and a possible removal of all word games to a word game forum would make tavern a much more fun place to visit. Also giving out more QP:s there would encourage posters to become more creative and that way we could have a funny tavern again. It has been a fun place to visit earlier, so im sure it could be a funny place to visit again.

@Djive: i also believe that how well this will work out is alot up to you moderators. We members can as khaelo for example has been doing bring up great ideas, but in the long run its what you make out of these ideas that matters.

And since alot of this discussion have been about tavern forum i believe that its the tavern mods in particular that have to work out a strategy how to deal with all this.

I can understand that detecting all spam here is more or less a mission impossible. But at current standings there are 4 moderators in tavern, and i believe that with the right teamwork 4 mods should be able to get a working tavern-VW system and if not i wouldnt mind seeing another mod being appointed. Spam is IMO a big problem nowadays and reducing it should have a high priority.

@RedSox: I share a much of your opinion when it comes to spam punishment. Though i dont believe number of spam posts should be a matter. A single warning from a moderator should be enough and if the member doesnt show any indications of changing..then penalitize it. Warning someone and then wait 15 more spam posts before being able to hand out that penalty shouldnt be the case IMO.

Spam should not be tolerable anymore.

And as redsox says, when penalties are started to be handed out for spamming im sure it will disappear alot. Examples need to be set, and by that i dont mean giving the next spamming member a penalty. But if mentioned above warned and doesnt show any improvement...give him/her a penalty and im sure that person will think twice before start spamming again, and others with spamming tendencys will be doing the same.

And as i said earlier in this post, alot of responsibility for spamming removal will be on the moderators in tavern. If they like you say ignore wishes for spam threads to be removed this discussion will get us nowhere.

It is the moderators that needs to set the examples here...
by following wishes from members who wants to have spam removed.
by start handing out warnings and penalties for spam.
by having a good teamwork so no misunderstandings will appear.
by listening to advice from members of what threads that needs to be looked into.
by making sure a well working system between tavern-VW is introduced.

IMO if the above things aint followed and an ignorant attitude given there will be no improvements. This is depending on tavern moderators to work.

However i dont believe that having some QP average for numbers of posts possible to be made each day is the solution to this.

I believe that with right warning/penalty management the spamming will be reduced to such a level where having an average like would be meaningless.

Also on the negative side it will make members think more carefully about what they post or not and as it could lead to a higher QP average it could also lead to a much less nr of posts from those members since they dont wanna lower their current QP average. And concidering the current recommendation of top 2% receving QP:s getting those QP:s will be way harder since the quality will rise in average on the posts posted. Problem is that posting quantity could be reduced to such a level where this msg board gets to slow instead.

Quote:
I used to think QP's were hard to get. They are hard to get if most of your posts go into tavern and you don't try to contribute to the HOMM forums or give new ideas to Turban Tribunal. It only takes the effort. With enough posts that give effort to the community instead of spamming in tavern. Then yes it is really hard to get QP's.


I believe this quote to be very on spot. As i said earlier a higher number of QP:s must be given out for tavern to work again. There shouldnt be a case where you have to post in other forums to recieve QP:s, that will also kill the tavern because the contributive posters will make their posts somewhere else where they will get rewarded for them.

As for stickies in each forum..i dont believe in that. IMO it will just cause misunderstandings because of what is tolerated in one forum maybe isnt in another. Its better for all the mods (could leave tournament boards out since spam is rare there) to come to an understanding on what spam policy to have.

@lord woock: Like celfious we seem to have a different idea of what spam is aswell.

I think its good of you to take responsibility for your behalf in this, i like you think that this "spamming is cool" thing can alot be because of some competition here.

Ive also seen that you havent posted as much as of late, which i think its good when it comes to spam posts. But i believe that you as highest number of poster here could help out more by removing those "god of spam" and "ultimate spammer" tags of yours. By taking a stance from spamming you might get other members to do the same and make spamming an "uncool" thing again. That will IMO help out the sitation alot.

@hexa: as ive mention many times by now i think you and the rest of tavern mod squad will have a big saying in how this will work out.

I also fully understand that detecting spam in an off topic forum will be hard. Thats why think its of big importance that you discuss this with rest of tavern mods and try and get an incommon idea on what is OK and not.

I do believe though that setting some examples now is vital, then if that will turn HC to a "police-state" it wont be for long but it might be necessary to get an end to this.

I can only speak for myself but id rather have a harsh spam policy to set examples and get the spam reduced then having tavern as it is today where its IMO completely boring.

@soccerfeva: we visit this place because it is usually a funny place. "quality" material doesnt necessarily mean a book or a well written article, it can also be a way to improve this place like khaelos post earlier and many others here who have shown a great interest in solving this problem.



To summon things up alittle, after reading many of your posts again and giving it some thought i believe that alot of this is up to the mods.

The ideas have come here and im sure they will keep coming, now it depends on how they get handled.

As i believe much of this now lies within the hands of mainly tavern (and hopefully VW mod squad) it would be nice to see some of their opinions on this.

Ideas of possible solutions has been brought up and it seems like a harsher attitude against spamming is thought of many as the best solution.

Because of judging from the posts here im not the only one thinking that we do have a spamming problem, so now we just have to find a way to put an end to it. Solution ideas has been brought up and should be looked into.

Lets just hope the massive spamming here will get an end soon.

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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted November 25, 2003 06:57 AM bonus applied.
Edited By: RedSoxFan3 on 1 Dec 2003

Well said Sir_Stiven.

We do need a system for enforcing spam.

I think we should take the next step. Now that we are in agreement that spam is a problem and the mods need to make a consensus on what is spam in an off-topic forum and how it should be penalized.

Here are some of my opinions:

1.) Making pointless, off-topic posts in a thread that has any sort of serious discussion. Thread killing is the worst type of spamming, because it "kills" the good threads in the forum making it boring.

2.) Creating excessive threads. Also known as thread sprees. Maybe not as bad as thread killing, but certainly up there.

3.) Thread Necromancy. This is reviving old, spam threads. This is pointless and, to me, is the same as going on a thread spree.

4.) Word Games. These should be shipped out to Volanic Wastelands. I don't think that Wastelands should delete everything after a week, but instead have 1 or 2 pages of threads. This will keep the forum active. Any word games that die off can be revived. By someone else. However, not all games should go into VW. Games that are interesting to read should stay in tavern like Tell the Truth. Where as the games that are boring to read, but sometimes fun to play should go in VW.

5.) Flooding. This is posting in like 8 threads in a row that contain 1 or 2 short sentences each. Perhaps the worst of all spamming. This is truly only done to increase post count. Flooding often comes with other offenses including all of the previous offenses. Any sort of blatent flooding should be punished harshly.

What else do you think we need to prevent spam?

Another good thing to do is to come up with better threads.

Spam is certainly a problem, however it doesn't matter as much when there are plenty of good threads as well.
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Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Mickey cult member
posted December 02, 2003 01:12 AM

Diffferent views on the word spam.
Dose this define spam?

Spam - what majority dose not like to see on the net
AParently there are different views, cuz some of the  "spammers" fail to recognize this and their posts are ok yet they take pride in the lable.

Having goal to just increase postcount is a symptom of spam.

Nebuka was awsome a few times. Once was when he said " +1 " in some of his posts. lmao..
that is not bad spamming nebz

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