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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: The Death of Culture
Thread: The Death of Culture This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
IYY
IYY


Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
posted March 30, 2004 11:51 PM
Edited By: IYY on 30 Mar 2004

Poll Question:
The Death of Culture

I am nearly eighteen years old and ever since I learned how to read, I finished approximately one book per week – if not more. I read everything from Tolkien to Weis and Hickman and all the way to Dostoyevsky. And most importantly, I loved literature! I also loved art and poetry – often practicing it at my spare time with significant talent. I had fun and I believe that all that literature and art made me see the world in a better way – see the beauty of it all. Those were the days.

Fast forward to my senior high school in Canada. The English course involves two types of literature: the oldest, driest, empty and irrelevant works of Shakespeare that are bound by so many rules and regulation that all artistic value is lost – and modern Canadian literature. Now, I thought that Shakespeare was bad but I nearly cried when I read these books that are filled with endless heaps of utterly useless metaphors that instead of making me see the truth of the world, make me see the back side of my eyelids. None of the books that I loved were studied, and none were even mentioned. It’s as though they erased everything that actually had meaning and kept only the parts that could be analyzed to infinity.

Next comes the creative writing course. Poetry. I loved poetry once! I wrote it! I read the works of Alexander Pushkin and Edgar Allen Poe, speaking them out loud and feeling every bit of emotion that’s in them. It was as though the poets opened their minds to me and let me see everything that’s inside. How eager I was to study some of that in school, to hear readings from such classic poets. After all, I thought, how could they not appreciate those who’s names appear on every top poetry list in the world? None of that. The first thing that we were told was that rhyming is no longer popular, and is considered juvenile. At that point I lost all faith in humanity. It’s not that I think that all poetry should rhyme, some of my favourite poems are completely rhyme free, but to call the great poems of the past that I enjoyed so much ‘childish’ was just too much.

We were taught that poetry could be a single sentence. Heck, a single word. We were shown how the greatest poetry is cryptic. But why? I always saw the purpose of poetry as to present raw emotions to the reader in a way which he will understand but instead we are now taught that he shouldn’t understand! The poems should be coated with layers and layers of useless disguises in order for them to be meaningful. Once deciphered, the message ends up being as simple as a single line of something a six-grader may write. If the goal was to show us something about the world – why hide it? As powerful as symbolism can be, it should not be used as a disguise but as a tool!

Today I woke up and noticed the most terrifying thing I’ve ever noticed: I stopped reading. Almost completely! I went from one book per week to as little as three books per year! I also find that I no longer enjoy poetry and have little feelings towards art. Whenever I try to pick up a book and read I am reminded of these painful classes and can no longer enjoy it. When I’m reading the poetry that I used to love so much, I see it – as much as I hate to – through the critical eyes of the arrogant modernists who’s views I’ve been forced to adopt.

I don’t know what to think. Maybe it’s a government conspiracy to stop the workforce from having creative thoughts by making them hate all art forms. Maybe it’s just me.

Responses:
I am sickened by your views on the magnificent modern culture.
You're not changing with the times, man!
I agree with you.
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bort
bort


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
posted March 31, 2004 12:31 AM

Your basing your appreciation of literature on a high school english class?  There's your problem.  Go take a few college level lit classes.  You'll find there's a huge difference between discussing literature and having some hack quote the teacher's manual.  The way one of my professor's put it, "Your interpretation of the text is as valid as anybody else's.  Whether or not you can convince somebody of your interpretation is another matter, but it doesn't change the validity of your interpretation."  (Okay, I may have messed up the exact quote a bit.  It was a couple years ago).  If you like poems that rhyme, than snow 'em and their "childish" claim.
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bjorn190
bjorn190


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Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted March 31, 2004 12:45 AM

You have probably been indoctrinated by the dominant regime of truth, which has reduced your freedom and creativity. - Im sorry that it killed your love for poetry.

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IYY
IYY


Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
posted March 31, 2004 12:51 AM

Quote:
Your basing your appreciation of literature on a high school english class?


The problem is that the teachers of this course only recently graduated from University and claim that this is what is being taught there, and our books say that this is the general trend in today's poetry.

And besides, I didn't change my tastes in literature in any way - just that on a sublimenal level I can no longer enjoy it like I used. It's not only my opinion - it is shared by many who have similar views on literature and are not studying in the Canadian (or at least Ontario) education system.
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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted March 31, 2004 01:07 AM
Edited By: Consis on 30 Mar 2004

Poetry Is Art

I have my own opinion about the art known as poetry. Mind you, they are my own views and many people would not agree with me.

First of all I believe in the old saying, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

Art, to me, is subjective. This means that not everyone will see a painting in the same light that you do. If it is true that each person in the world is their own unique self then it must also be true that some people will be inspired by certain artworks that others will not be inspired by.

Having said that poetry is art then we can safely assume that not every person will be inspired by certain works of poetry.

I have always carried this belief with me. I have never understood why anyone would want to take a class on poetry except to be exposed to the numerous works' names. Names they did not know of before may now be open to exploration by the interested student of this particular art.

I would not want to attend any poetry class because there is no way to know if the professor teaching that class looks at the world in the way that I do. By taking his or her class I could be bombarded by his or her strict opinions concerning some written works.

Let's say I find myself in a coffee shop and a person walks up to me and says that he thinks Edgar Allen Poe was satirical in nature but my opinion of him was one of finding light in dark places. In that setting, if I disagree with him I can simply question him a bit further, as to his opinion, a bit more in depth to see if he is firm in his views or open to other opinions. If he is firm then I respectfully tell him I shall be taking my views elsewhere in search of kindred spirits. If he is open to other views then his openness gives me the patience to sit through his differences of opinions.

In a college setting you may find that many poetry classes will have a set curriculum with this book or that book along a line of reading difficulty. Starting with a subjectively easy book and ending with a subjectively difficult book. In other words what they think is difficult or easy for you to read. That is rediculous to assume what a student who has graduated high school has difficulty reading especially concerning poetry. In a class like that a professor will usually dictate either, what he/she believes the poetry means, or what the general populous of the world believes the poetry means. It's all very rigid and throws the student into a world of what 'everyone else thinks'. I tell you and anyone else reading this right now that, THERE IS NO SET STANDARD FOR READING ANY POETRY ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD! Interestingly enough, though, you will find many people who declare this to be false. I say 'wrong!' Nobody can tell you what to think about art. They don't define who you are! You define who you are!

This is the reason I don't look to attend any college course concerning poetry. It's all so close-minded. You may read the work yourself and find the material to be of completely different meaning to you! And because of this you may fail the class simply because the astounding written works have reached you in different ways. I say 'no' to this.

I say to read the works that others gossip about and then find other works that seem appealing to your own self. From their create your own opinion. Let poetry touch you in the only way that it can. By being you and not conforming to others' opinions then you will again find the love for that which is art written.
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Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted March 31, 2004 01:43 AM

lol, my friend. I've got the exact opposite problem of yours.
I don't know why, but I don't enjoy much "the great classical works of literature". And they are so aggressively forced in our educational system, that it leaves little place for modern art. And I prefer modern, alternative forms of art, not just about literature, but also music, cinema, photography etc.

To me, classic's dead dull and boring, which certainly doens't mean it "suck" (there're fine pieces of classic too), but it doesn't give me the emotions I'd expect from a work of art.

Though, our problem's the opposite, buddy, the effect is the same. I don't read much, probably about 5 books a year.

For me, the only true merit for a book's value, is whether or not it causes emotions, and with what intensity it does. If one gets all soppy while reading love novels, then let them be a peak of literature for him. If you like Pushkin, go for it. I'll stay close to my alternative choice and so on. The important thing to remember, as others have said it also, is that there's no objective quality in art. It's all subjective.

Don't you give a sh!t about what those "educated" nerds say. You've got your own truth.
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bort
bort


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
posted March 31, 2004 02:23 AM

Quote:

In a college setting you may find that many poetry classes will have a set curriculum with this book or that book along a line of reading difficulty. Starting with a subjectively easy book and ending with a subjectively difficult book. In other words what they think is difficult or easy for you to read. That is rediculous to assume what a student who has graduated high school has difficulty reading especially concerning poetry. In a class like that a professor will usually dictate either, what he/she believes the poetry means, or what the general populous of the world believes the poetry means. It's all very rigid and throws the student into a world of what 'everyone else thinks'. I tell you and anyone else reading this right now that, THERE IS NO SET STANDARD FOR READING ANY POETRY ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD! Interestingly enough, though, you will find many people who declare this to be false. I say 'wrong!' Nobody can tell you what to think about art. They don't define who you are! You define who you are!

This is the reason I don't look to attend any college course concerning poetry. It's all so close-minded. You may read the work yourself and find the material to be of completely different meaning to you! And because of this you may fail the class simply because the astounding written works have reached you in different ways. I say 'no' to this.



What college are you referring to?  I wasn't an english major, but I took several english classes and none of them were organized by any sort of idea of difficulty.  Organization was either by chronological order or by theme or in one case by what was apparently a completely random order.  Never once did a professor get up there and say "this is what this means."  (unless it was literally the definition of a word).  They would do a variety of things, from giving various interpretations of books to giving historical context.  Any good literature class also has a discussion section where the students discuss the book amongst themselves either with a TA or with the professor.  Rarely is a professor so set in their ways that they don't appreciate and encouraging opposing viewpoints.  I remember one class where the professor was a big fan of Emerson but virtually the entire class, including myself, denounced him as a deluded hypocrite.  This was just fine by him.  If you find yourself with a professor who is inflexible, drop the class.  Simple as that.  Find a class you enjoy.  At the same time, don't be so quick to dismiss what you may view as "dictation."  Just as the lecturer should be open to views that are not the same as his, so should you be open to views that are not the same as yours.  It doesn't mean you have to adopt them as your own, but listening to them can't hurt and may even make you appreciate the work even more.  Remember, just because somebody says something doesn't mean you have to agree with it, but it can't hurt to listen.

Regarding changing tastes in literature, would it necessarily be a bad thing to change your tastes in literature?  The 18 year old you is not the same person that the 14 year old you was.  Is the 18 year old you required to like something just because the 14 year old did?  I loved stuff like the Dragonlance novels when I was 14.  I don't anymore.  Doesn't mean that they aren't good, or that I was wrong, I just don't enjoy reading them anymore.  I hated Hemmingway when I was 14, but I love him now.  Doesn't mean the 14 year old me was uncultured or stupid (although, to be fair, the 14 year old me was uncultured and stupid.  Of course, so is the 23 year old me, but hey, who's keeping track.) it just means that tastes change.  Enjoy it, don't fear it.
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IYY
IYY


Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
posted March 31, 2004 03:04 AM

Quote:
Regarding changing tastes in literature, would it necessarily be a bad thing to change your tastes in literature?


The problem is that my actual taste in literature did not change. I still see the books that I loved earlier as superiour, and feel sick every time I come across the literature presented to us in the English course. The problem is that I am having trouble enjoying reading once my mind started assosiating it with false analyzing.

My only hope is that one day when all of this is far behind and forgotten, I'll be able to go back to my old reading habits.
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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted March 31, 2004 04:18 AM
Edited By: Consis on 30 Mar 2004

May I Suggest?

IYY,

May I suggest attempting to find a remote location to review the literature in question? My father would tell me to climb a mountain with Shakespear and read it at the top(we did this together). Perhaps you could get on a small boat and go out to sea a bit before reading the poetry. Maybe a trip to a secluded location in the forest would do it. Or even hike to a nearby cave with a friend, a lantern, and some snacks.
For certain works such as "Where The Wild Things Are"Try the cave

I have found, personally, that technology interfears with poetry many times. I think it's good to find a quiet and inspiring spot in the world around you to truly appreciate the material.
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Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted April 02, 2004 02:51 AM

Styles in poetry

A billboard icon

Whatever you are,
A slave or a master
In a world embraced by a thirsty bat
Only death is freedom.

Resurrect, oh you butterfly
Honor and a tear, you tiny coin
Hastened like a tern
In a spiral machine
Silhouettes in a roulette game
Pirouettes in the dust.

I am a surfer
Electrical Tsunami,
The silver rider
Of wild waves
Both romantic
And orgasmic
Rock n roll führer
A sign
A sign and a message
A billboard icon.

Breakfast on a cloud
Bread and wine
God is wise
I am precious
Above me a sky of blue
A beautiful sunny day.

Lyrics by “Archangel”, a Macedonian rock band



Midway in our life's journey, I went astray
from the straight road and woke to find myself
alone in a dark wood. How shall I say

what wood that was! I never saw so drear,
so rank, so arduous a wilderness!
Its very memory gives a shape to fear.

Death could scarce be more bitter than that place!
But since it came to good, I will recount
all that I found revealed there by God's grace.

How I came to it I cannot rightly say,
so drugged and loose with sleep had I become
when I first wandered there from the True Way.

But at the far end of that valley of evil
whose maze had sapped my very heart with fear
I found myself before a little hill

and lifted up my eyes. Its shoulders glowed
already with the sweet rays of that planet
whose virtue leads men straight on every road,

and the shining strengthened me against the fright
whose agony had wracked the lake of my heart
through all the terrors of that piteous night.

Opening lines of “Inferno” by Dante



Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate:
Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May,
And summer's lease hath all too short a date:
Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines
And often is his gold complexion dimmed;
And every fair from fair sometimes declines,
By chance or nature's changing course untrimmed;
But thy eternal summer shall not fade,
Nor lose possession of that fair thou ow'st;
Nor shall death brag thou wander'st in his shade,
When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st:
So long as men can breathe, or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.

A poem by Shakespeare



There Was a Young Girl

Once, long ago,
In a place far away
There was a young girl
Who watched you cry that day,

When you stood all alone
Before a cruel crowd.
They showed you no mercy
As your tears freely flowed.

She knew of your pain.
Though you did not know
As she sat there among them,
She hated them so.

You never saw her
For she bowed her head
As her eyes filled with tears
They saw you instead.

She wanted to help –
She wanted to stand,
To walk over to you
And take hold of your hand.

But frozen in horror
As they taunted and teased,
She felt such a fear
The pain has never eased.

The girl now a woman,
The years all passed by,
Wonders still where you are;
Wonders if you still cry.

And now lifetimes later
After so many years,
To this day she remembers
And her eyes fill with tears.

She never forgot you
So alone there that day,
More than anyone ever.
She still longs to say –

That she was there with you
Though silently so…
She felt your pain too
And she wants you to know

How she quietly loved you
But so feared the display
To reach out and touch you
And be laughed at that day.

So she left you alone
In the shame of her fear,
And ached from a distance
As you endured it, my dear.

Looking back on it now,
You must surely see
The young girl there in spirit. . .
And that girl was me.

Our dear Peacemaker



Oh, her voice like thunder,
When the senses are shaken and the soul driven to madness,
Who can stand?
When the souls of the oppressed fight in the troubled air that rages,
Who can stand?
When the world wind of fury comes from the throne of God,
And the frawns(?) of its continents drive the nations together,
Who can stand?
When sin clapses broad wings over the battle and sails, rejoicing in a flood of death,
When souls are torn to everlasting fire and fiends of Hell rejoice upon the flame,
Oh, who can stand?
Oh, who have caused this?
Oh, who can answer at the throne of God?
Kings and the nobles of the land have done it,
Here, and not Heaven, thy ministers have done it!

Lyrics of a Celtic song. Possible (actually most certainly) wrong words in there.



Five different styles of writing. Which one do you like the most?

I like Shakespeare’s style the least, because it’s too complex in form and style, but hollow in emotions.
I like Dante’s style because of the vivid style he uses, but the narration, imho still lacks a more persuasive emotional touch.
I like Peacemaker’s style better than Shakespeare’s! (Now, is that a compliment or what) First, it’s very simple, but abundant with sincere emotions and true feelings.
The last Celtic song lyrics are similar to Peacemaker’s style, although a completely different topic. But they are both fairly simple, cause strong emotion-loaded images, and that’s what matters to me.
Now, my favorite, “Archangel”. Maybe I’m a bit biased here, since I also now the tune of the song. Anyway, it’s not that easy to understand, but the images it creates in my mind are extremely powerful and potent. Strong stuff. And if you read between the lines, you’ll see the philosophical message it bears.
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IYY
IYY


Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
posted April 02, 2004 03:10 AM

Quote:
Five different styles of writing. Which one do you like the most?



I like the actual style of Peacemaker's poem since I prefer the rhythm she uses. This particular shakespearean poem is quite good, but I still don't like his style. And Dante just has great content and emotions.

As for rock songs, this is not an example I like too much since it hides the truth under too many layers of symbolism, but in general, rock lyrics can be among the best forms of poetry. I think that the best rock lyrics award should go to the 70's Russian band Mashina Vremeni. They are true poets.
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bort
bort


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
posted April 02, 2004 04:18 PM

Modern poetry ain't so bad...

Howl (Alan Ginsberg 1955-1956)

Quote:

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked,

dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix,

angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night,

who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the supernatural darkness of cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities contemplating jazz,

who bared their brains to Heaven under the El and saw Mohammedan angels staggering on tenement roofs illuminated

who passed through universities with radiant cool eyes hallucinating Arkansas and Blake-light tragedy among the scholars of war,

who were expelled from the academies for crazy & publishing obscene odes on the windows of the skull,

who cowered in unshaven rooms in underwear, burning their money in wastebaskets and listening to the Terror through the wall,

who got busted in their pubic beards returning through Laredo with a belt of marijuana for New York.

who ate fire in paint hotels or drank turpentine in Paradise Alley, death, or purgatoried their torsos night after night

with dreams, with drugs, with waking nightmares, alcohol and cock and endless balls,

incomparable blind streets of shuddering cloud and lightning in the mind leaping toward poles of Canada & Paterson, illuminating all the motionless world of Time between,

Peyote solidities of halls, backyard green tree cemetery dawns, wine drunkenness over the rooftops, storefront boroughs of teahead joyride neon blinking traffic light, sun and moon and tree vibrations in the roaring winter dusks of Brooklyn, ashcan rantings and kind king light of mind,

who chained themselves to subways for the endless ride from Battery to holy Bronx on benzedrine until the noise of wheels and children brought them down shuddering mouth-wracked and battered bleak of brain all drained of brilliance in the drear light of Zoo,

who sank, all night in submarine light of Bickford's floated out and sat through the stale beer afternoon in desolate Fugazzi's, listening to the crack of doom on the hydrogen jukebox,

who talked continuously seventy hours from park to pad to bar to Bellevue to museum to the Brooklyn Bridge,

a lost battalion of platonic conversationalists jumping down the stoops off fire escapes off windowsills off Empire State out of the moon,

yacketayakking screaming vomiting whispering facts and memories and anecdotes and eyeball kicks and shocks of hospitals and jails and wars,

whole intellects disgorged in total recall for seven days and nights with brilliant eyes, meat for the Synagogue cast on the pavement,

who vanished into nowhere Zen New Jersey leaving a trail of ambiguous picture postcards of Atlantic City Hall,

suffering Eastern sweats and Tangerian bone-grindings and migraines of China under junk-withdrawal in Newark's bleak furnished room,

who wandered around and around at midnight in the railroad yard wondering where to go, and went, leaving no broken hearts,

who lit cigarettes in boxcars boxcars boxcars racketing through snow toward lonesome farms in grandfather night,

who studied Plotinus Poe St. John of the Cross telepathy and bop kaballa because the cosmos instinctively vibrated at their feet in Kansas,

who loned it through the streets of Idaho seeking visionary indian angels who were visionary indian angels,

who thought they were only mad when Baltimore gleamed in supernatural ecstasy,

who jumped in limousines with the Chinaman of Oklahoma on the impulse of winter midnight streetlight smalltown rain,

who lounged hungry and lonesome through Houston seeking jazz or sex or soup, and followed the brilliant Spaniard to converse about America and Eternity, a hopeless task, and so took ship to Africa,

who disappeared into the volcanoes of Mexico leaving behind nothing but the shadow of dungarees and the lava and ash of poetry scattered in fireplace Chicago,

who reappeared on the West Coast investigating the F.B.I. in beards and shorts with big pacifist eyes sexy in their dark skin passing out incomprehensible leaflets,

who burned cigarette holes in their arms protesting the narcotic tobacco haze of Capitalism,

who distributed Supercommunist pamphlets in Union Square weeping and undressing while the sirens of Los Alamos wailed them down, and wailed down Wall, and the Staten Island ferry also wailed,

who broke down crying in white gymnasiums naked and trembling before the machinery of other skeletons,

who bit detectives in the neck and shrieked with delight in policecars for committing no crime but their own wild cooking pederasty and intoxication,

who howled on their knees in the subway and were dragged off the roof waving genitals and manuscripts,

who let themselves be snowed in the ass by saintly motorcyclists, and screamed with joy,

who blew and were blown by those human seraphim, the sailors, caresses of Atlantic and Caribbean love,

who balled in the morning in the evenings in rosegardens and the grass of public parks and cemeteries scattering their semen freely to whomever come who may,

who hiccupped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob behind a partition in a Turkish Bath when the blonde & naked angel came to pierce them with a sword,

who lost their loveboys to the three old shrews of fate the one eyed shrew of the heterosexual dollar the one eyed shrew that winks out of the womb and the one eyed shrew that does nothing but sit on her ass and snip the intellectual golden threads of the craftsman's loom,

who copulated ecstatic and insatiate with a bottle of beer a sweetheart a package of cigarettes a candle and fell off the bed, and continued along the floor and down the hall and ended fainting on the wall with a vision of ultimate snow and come eluding the last gyzym of consciousness,

who sweetened the snatches of a million girls trembling in the sunset, and were red eyed in the morning but prepared to sweeten the snatch of the sunrise, flashing buttocks under barns and naked in the lake,

who went out whoring through Colorado in myriad stolen night-cars, N.C., secret hero of these poems, cocksman and Adonis of Denver joy to the memory of his innumerable lays of girls in empty lots & diner backyards, moviehouses' rickety rows, on mountaintops in caves or with gaunt waitresses in familiar roadside lonely petticoat upliftings & especially secret gas-station solipsisms of johns, & hometown alleys too,

who faded out in vast sordid movies, were shifted in dreams, woke on a sudden Manhattan, and picked themselves up out of basements hung over with heartless Tokay and horrors of Third Avenue iron dreams & stumbled to unemployment offices,

who walked all night with their shoes full of blood on the snowbank docks waiting for a door in the East River to open to a room full of steam-heat and opium,

who created great suicidal dramas on the apartment cliff-banks of the Hudson under the wartime blue floodlight of the moon & their heads shall be crowned with laurel in oblivion,

who ate the lamb stew of the imagination or digested the crab at the muddy bottom of the rivers of Bowery,

who wept at the romance of the streets with their pushcarts full of onions and bad music,

who sat in boxes breathing in the darkness under the bridge, and rose up to build harpsichords in their lofts,

who coughed on the sixth floor of Harlem crowned with flame under the tubercular sky surrounded by orange crates of theology,

who scribbled all night rocking and rolling over lofty incantations which in the yellow morning were stanzas of gibberish,

who cooked rotten animals lung heart feet tail borsht & tortillas dreaming of the pure vegetable kingdom,

who plunged themselves under meat trucks looking for an egg,

who threw their watches off the roof to cast their ballot for Eternity outside of Time, & alarm clocks fell on their heads every day for the next decade,

who cut their wrists three times successively unsuccessfully, gave up and were forced to open antique stores where they thought they were growing old and cried,

who were burned alive in their innocent flannel suits on Madison Avenue amid blasts of leaden verse & the tanked-up clatter of the iron regiments of fashion & the nitroglycerine shrieks of the fairies of advertising & the mustard gas of sinister intelligent editors, or were run down by the drunken taxicabs of Absolute Reality,

who jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge this actually happened and walked away unknown and forgotten into the ghostly daze of Chinatown soup alleyways & firetrucks, not even one free beer,

who sang out of their windows in despair, fell out of the subway window, jumped in the filthy Passaic, leaped on negroes, cried all over the street, danced on broken wineglasses barefoot smashed phonograph records of nostalgic European 1930's German jazz finished the whiskey and threw up groaning into the bloody toilet, moans in their ears and the blast of colossal steamwhistles,

who barreled down the highways of the past journeying to each other's hotrod-Golgotha jail-solitude watch or Birmingham jazz incarnation,

who drove crosscountry seventytwo hours to find out if I had a vision or you had a vision or he had a vision to find out Eternity,

who journeyed to Denver, who died in Denver, who came back to Denver & waited in vain, who watched over Denver & brooded & loned in Denver and finally went away to find out the Time, & now Denver is lonesome for her heroes,

who fell in hopeless cathedrals praying for each other's salvation and light and breasts, until the soul illuminated its hair for a second,

who crashed through their minds in jail waiting for impossible criminals with golden heads and the charm of reality in their hearts who sang sweet blues to Alcatraz,

who retired to Mexico to cultivate a habit, or Rocky Mount to tender Buddha or Tangiers to boys or Southern Pacific to the black locomotive or Harvard to Narcissus to Woodlawn to the daisychain or grave,

who demanded sanity trials accusing the radio of hypnotism & were left with their insanity & their hands & a hung jury,

who threw potato salad at CCNY lecturers on Dadaism and subsequently presented themselves on the granite steps of the madhouse with shaven heads and harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy,

and who were given instead the concrete void of insulin metrasol electricity hydrotherapy psychotherapy occupational therapy pingpong & amnesia,

who in humorless protest overturned only one symbolic pingpong table, resting briefly in catatonia,

returning years later truly bald except for a wig of blood, and tears and fingers, to the visible madman doom of the wards of the madtowns of the East,

Pilgrim State's Rockland's and Greystone's foetid halls, bickering with the echoes of the soul, rocking and rolling in the midnight solitude-bench dolmen-realms of love, dream of life a nightmare, bodies turned to stone as heavy as the moon,

with mother finally ******, and the last fantastic book flung out of the tenement window, and the last door closed at 4 AM and the last telephone slammed at the wall in reply and the last furnished room emptied down to the last piece of mental furniture, a yellow paper rose twisted on a wire hanger in the closet, and even that imaginary, nothing but a hopeful little bit of hallucination--

ah, Carl, while you are not safe I am not safe, and now you're really in the total animal soup of time--

and who therefore ran through the icy streets obsessed with a sudden flash of the alchemy of the use of the ellipse the catalog the meter & the vibrating plane,

who dreamt and made incarnate gaps in Time & Space through images juxtaposed, and trapped the archangel of the soul between 2 visual images and joined the elemental verbs and set the noun and dash of consciousness together jumping with sensation of Pater Omnipotens Aeterna Deus

to recreate the syntax and measure of poor human prose and stand before you speechless and intelligent and shaking with shame, rejected yet confessing out the soul to conform to the rhythm of thought in his naked and endless head,

the madman bum and angel beat in Time, unknown, yet putting down here what might be left to say in time come after death,

and rose reincarnate in the ghostly clothes of jazz in the goldhorn shadow of the band and blew the suffering of America's naked mind for love into an eli eli lamma lamma sabacthani saxophone cry that shivered the cities down to the last radio

with the absolute heart of the poem of life butchered out of their own bodies good to eat a thousand years.



This is part 1 of 3 parts.  Posting the other three might be a bit excessive.  Unfortunately, it loses something from not being formatted the way it is on a page, but the feeling is still there.  Gives a different view of the 1950s than, say Leave it to Beaver does, huh?

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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


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posted April 02, 2004 06:41 PM

We have to read books for school. That's how it is all around the world. But is the situation worldwide the same as over here? They make teenagers read the classics of literature. Nobody cares if we understand it though. They say that it's to encourage us to read more books. If so, then why do we have to read the boring "classics" instead of something we'd enjoy? Sure a few historical novels should be involved, but why make us read Sienkiewicz's trilogy instead of Discworld or Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? The ministry of education is killing off the interest in good literature of youth. Right from the beginning of our education.

Is this the case with other countries?
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Svarog
Svarog


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statue-loving necrophiliac
posted April 03, 2004 01:12 AM

Quote:
We were taught that poetry could be a single sentence.


They tought you well. (see bort's poem)
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted November 28, 2008 05:39 AM

An interesting topic from the past. Something different for the OSM to discuss, at least. Last year, I wrote this poem in AP Lit, for an assignment where we basically were handed random words and had to piece some sort of poem out of them.

"Ten

Paint buzz
Sheathe teh punk angst"

I'm serious. And this stuff passes as poetry! Ridiculous. You can find "a deeper meaning" in almost anything. But literature and poetry are not "almost anything". Especially modern literature. And modern art in general.
Modern art = splash together random colors in random shapes. It has a deeper meaning!
Modern literature = write a story with a barely passable plot and with a general rabid hatred of modernity. It has a deeper meaning!
Modern music = Put random notes and beats everywhere, with nonsense or mindless lyrics. It has a deeper meaning!
Modern poetry = Sling together some random words. It has a deeper meaning!
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Galev
Galev


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Galiv :D
posted November 28, 2008 09:29 AM

Blaaaah [/vomiting]

Uhm well...
Quote:
and our books say that this is the general trend in today's poetry.


It is sickeningly outrageous. And not to mention it is R u b b i s h!!!!!!

I myself wrote some poetry and now I see most of them a bit "bad" [I have no proper Enlish word for it], But I won "silver charter" twice times and "golden charter" onece with them on the "Cultural Day" of my Secondrary School [here it is the school from 15-18 year olds]. And one of my poems was published in a periodical (not a big, famous periodical but still). And I tell you: they rhymed.

And most present poems I read rhyme. (though many of them have no capital letters which I hate )

I think poetry is an art, and art is what the artist make it to be. It needs borders and regulations but you can't simply tell "rhyme is juvenile". That is a big deal of moroness. Who the little red riding hood are they to call nearly all writists "out of fashion". From Horatius to Dante; from Seneca to Byron or Poe?!

And if that might ease your pain, in my little, stone-age "eastern-europe" country [which is accidentally the geometrical center of Europe ] from our barbaric books our barbaric shamans theach our nomadic breed that Rhyme is all right. The shame of all that's modern, we should be called Moronia! [/sarcasm]

So you should just continue with reading. Tell, did you read Hungarian poetry? I think some of them are translated to English. I can advise you "János Arany" (John Gold); "Lőrinc Szabó"; "Attila József" They knew something

Oh and just a small note: I don't think Shakespeare is awful. I didn't read too much from him and all I read was translated but still, he isn't smaller than Poe I suppose.

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Moonlith
Moonlith


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If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted November 28, 2008 12:12 PM

Isn't that the trend of "modern art" ? Abstract art? Where a blue square is considered "art" ?

Mind you I think people are retarded for appreciating that, but hey, do something about it?

I'm glad I'm not in the world myself, but if you are, well, fix it Rebel. Set the trend! Go against it.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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Retired Hero
posted November 28, 2008 12:24 PM

why to go against the world if you can just ignore it.

I don't consider abstraction an art myself

Art is art, abstraction is a crappy attempt of people lacking talent to make something that will become famous.
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Moonlith
Moonlith


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted November 28, 2008 12:26 PM

Exactly.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted November 29, 2008 04:02 PM

The problem is that there is less and less actual art being generated, and more and more of this "modern" stuff.
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