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| Thread: The Euro-American War |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Shirastro
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posted May 12, 2004 10:23 PM |
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There are only two countries that are muslim in Europe, Albania and Bosnia (partialy), and they are both rather small. I dont see how this make eastern Europe more muslim than, lets say, America.
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khayman
Promising
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Underachiever
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posted May 12, 2004 10:24 PM |
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Reliable and Accurate Data
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And another suspicious stats were given (by khayman i think). I sumed up EU memberstates' GDPs and I got a number equivalent to the American - about 8 point something thousands billion $ I think. So, no. USA is not significantly richer than EU.
Speaking of suspicious stats, where did you get your totals from? How about typing it numerically instead of posting "about 8 point something thousands billion $ I think" LOL. Do you expect we less-educated people to understand that. Also, if you would have taken the time to read my entire post and followed the link provided, you would have been able to see where I researched and drew my reliable information..."I think." 
Bite your tongue as well for generalising Gross Domestic Product as "richness." Shame on you!  Oh yes, the full definition of GDP also resides within my post as well, in case you would like to indulge yourself.
I agree that if you add all the smaller EU states that did not make the Top 20 World's Largest Economies in the stats I referenced, the total GDP would be higher; however, until someone posts those numbers and totals for me to view, I highly doubt they will top the "9 point something thousands billion $ I think", let alone exceed the United States GDP.
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Svarog
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statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 13, 2004 02:04 AM |
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Edited By: Svarog on 12 May 2004
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Fine, you data obsessed Yankee
lol. OK, khayman, that didn't sound very reliable, did it? I know. I should always have in mind how factual you guys are. 
I took my stats from Encarta World Atlas 2000. And USA had a value of 8.404.500 million$ for GDP. The European states totalled a bit less than that. (i lost the paper with the calculations and I'm too lazy to do it again )
However, those are pretty old stats.
I gathered new ones from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product
It says:
European Union 11.50 trillion
United States 10.40 trillion
And the source is CIA World Factbook!
So, no you cant argue against this. 
Conclusion: Europe kicks American butts.
Oh, and unless you have a better idea to measure the richness of countries, you might as well suggest a new method to do that (and win the Economy Nobel Prize at the same time). So far, GDP is most reliable.
EDIT: (for Consis) Hey, what do you mean US market is more stable than European? Currently the dollar is dancing crazy, while the euro is strong as never. It's the American national debt that's growing, not the European. At the same time the European economy expanded much more than the American and as you can see from the table outpassed it, unlike in the past, when USA was numero uno. I don't understand.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Aquaman333
Famous Hero
of the seven seas
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posted May 13, 2004 02:16 AM |
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Yes Svarog, it takes your entire continent to equal one North American nation, I hope you're proud.
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"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,
"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 13, 2004 02:21 AM |
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Since you already mentioned it, you might as well write something more about why you are proud of USA being the excessively dominant superpower, and would you look on Europe as a partner or rival, and would you support the process toward unification.
I will`give my opinion a bit later in a well-structured post (i hope).
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Aquaman333
Famous Hero
of the seven seas
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posted May 13, 2004 02:27 AM |
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I honestly don't care if the EU surpasses the US in economy, might, or anything really. America is a self sustaining nation. As long I am living way over here, with a good life, I couldn't care less what's going on over in Europe. What does it matter if the EU is doing well if the US is doing well also?
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"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,
"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
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Shirastro
Famous Hero
Happy happy joy joy
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posted May 13, 2004 03:50 AM |
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Quote:
Yes Svarog, it takes your entire continent to equal one North American nation, I hope you're proud.
Yes but that that country is almost as big as the abowe-mentioned continent 
Anyway, will you all just shut up. We are both filthy f***ing rich, so be glad about it and enjoy it as much as you can/want.
There are much worse places in this world to live, and we should feel lucky we were born in a richer part of the world not complaining...
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2XtremeToTake
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 13, 2004 04:18 AM |
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Alright..so religion isnt an issue...but Cultural differences alone should be enough. I doubt that British people have alot in common with say....Spain?? What about the French and germans?? Greece and Denmark???
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I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.
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Shirastro
Famous Hero
Happy happy joy joy
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posted May 13, 2004 10:07 AM |
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Ever heard of globalisation?
Historys may be difrent, but i dont think that a modern Italian is much difrent from modern french or german.
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Kaiser
Tavern Dweller
für das Vaterland
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posted May 13, 2004 10:12 AM |
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What about the French and germans??
Slam me if I'm wrong, but haven't they been bed-fellows lately?
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We are both filthy f***ing rich, so be glad about it and enjoy it as much as you can/want.
There are much worse places in this world to live, and we should feel lucky we were born in a richer part of the world not complaining...
An interesting point however, is that due to the respective foreign policies of the EU and US, one of them is a much more desired terrorist target than the other. I know where I'd rather live
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted May 13, 2004 07:14 PM |
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Edited By: Consis on 13 May 2004
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Kaiser,
Hi
?I was wondering if you liked anything about Richard Wagner?
 Personally, I find his work to be a great inspiration to me and my directions of thought on life and other such philosophies.
This brings me to my next question(which is also off-topic).
To PrivateHudson,
How did the English feel about having the Germanic-"Ride of the Valkyrie" be the theme song for a movie about King Arthur?
***special note***
Coffee seems to be working fine this morning! WooHoo!
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 13, 2004 09:21 PM |
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Quote:
Alright..so religion isnt an issue...but Cultural differences alone should be enough. I doubt that British people have alot in common with say....Spain?? What about the French and germans?? Greece and Denmark???
You bring up a very imortant argument here. Is there a European Identity?
Some say that without a common culture you can't hold a country together.
Well, in this era of global culture, the national culture is no longer prominent as it has been in the past. People in Europe now strive for tolerance and acceptance of differences.
It wouldn't be much different from USA, where there are many "minority" groups. The substance that would glue Europe together for upcoming centuries (i hope) isn't to be looked in cultural unification, but in the rule of law, democracy, tolerance and justice.
Having said that, I still believe that a word can be said about a common cultural European identity. So many nations on such a small place have surely brought some thread of similar mentalities between them. But if you try to find differences, don't do it on french-german fronts. There are many more cultural differences along the east/west and north/south European lines.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted May 14, 2004 02:38 AM |
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America doesn't have a common cultural identity either.
Since a lot of Americans trace ancestry back to one country or another, what America has built it's culture on are it's laws and it's democracy.
Alaskans can't have very much culturally in common with Hawaiians to take the extreme example. And surely those that live in mountainous snowy areas can't have much culturally in common with Californian surfers, who can't in turn have much in common with barn-dancing red-necks. These people live different lifestyles, in different climates, with variations in their laws and attitudes towards different moral issues. Maybe religion.
So I wouldn't sneer at the possibility of a United Europe. America just makes it look easy cos they've been doing it longer.
So what ties America together?
It's laws - Hopefully with the drafting of an EU constitution we will establish a law system comaparable with the USA's state/federal law system.
It's sports - Well over in Europe we play REAL football, you know. With our FEET. And the whole continent gets quite passionate about it. (BTW - the world cup has teams from all over the world in it. What's the deal therefore with the 'World' series?) And rugby is popular in many nations too. Tennis is another common sport, played all over the EU.
TV - Well, since most of our popular TV shows come from America, it doesn't matter. But we ALL watch them.
What else? Or am I just rambling?
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted May 14, 2004 02:44 AM |
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Quote:
How did the English feel about having the Germanic-"Ride of the Valkyrie" be the theme song for a movie about King Arthur?
Given that he's almost certainly a made up character who may or may not have been French I'm not that bothered
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Kaiser
Tavern Dweller
für das Vaterland
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posted May 14, 2004 07:08 AM |
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Consis
hi, sorry i'm not familiar with any of his works, though i'm familiar with his time period and i think i may have heard some of his composition
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 18, 2004 09:40 PM |
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Sorry for the delay
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There has not been a serious refferendum in this country for nigh on 40 years on europe. Given that and the startlingly unpopular nature of the current anti-european parties you might be suprised to find what percentage of Brits in a serious, informed vote would be pro-european.
I'd be happy to see that. But, if refferendums are nowhere (when was the last time you had a refferendum? Yeah, I know, hard to remember), than there's nothing left but to turn to polls for sensing the public pulse. And here results are not very optimistic (compared to the rest of Europe). Here, you should also have in mind the definition of "pro-european" itself. It's not a general dislike of EU, but the limiting of EU's field of influence to the point of retaining national soverignity. Another proof as you saw it yourself, would be the euro, which also could be considered as one of the initial elements of European integration, and it was initially rejected.
Also, you asked where did I get the info about British; it's from reporters from UK and experts' views on the issue.
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No-one bashes Sweden for it's isolationism from the EU, everyone bashes the UK for the same. Sweeden isn't even in the EU, let alone the Euro.
Well, although you try to minimize the importance of foreign policy, it is one of the most imortant (if not the most important) aspect of alliance, and that as the first step to unification and integration. Sweden, (i think not in the euro zone) is after all very much European, in terms of foreign policy, social issues etc. So any comparisson of the type "Look at Sweden. They are anti-europe too." is out of the question. A little input from bjorn or Stiven would come in handy.
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That I'll adress when I have more time. It's important to note that none of the problems I have are things that cannot be resolved... if they try NOW.
OK, Mr. never-enough-time-to-answer.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Svarog
Honorable
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statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 18, 2004 09:45 PM |
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A Euro-American war is necessary!
Well, that's a bold statement, but very true.
But let's start from the beginning. It is without doubt that today the USA is by far the most superior country in the world, both economically, culturally, millitary, diplomatically etc. And while Americans are hitting their chests in the manner of King-Kong, or ecstaticly shouting on the deck of Titanic "I'm the King of the World", it is important as never for them to understand that they might sink together with the whole Titanic. It has been shown that wherever a state of uncontroled power exists, that power is self-destructive ultimately. However, never before has such disbalance of power in the world history existed, and more importantly this time on a global level, which might only cause graver consequences. International insitutions that had been created to maintain the world peace and order (principally the UN, but also the International Criminal Court, various declarations, treaties and agreements), have been constantly ignored or even threatened by the very "keeper" of peace, justice and equality, and at the same time the subject with the biggest responsibility of all - the United States of America.
However, those institutions were only the result of few idealistic men imagining that in a world with only one major cetre of power, the rule of law will be respected. In such desperate circumstances many are contemplating of the possibility that an existance of multipolar distribution of power is necessary. This is what the French are constantly mumbling about, but such multipolarity unfortunately doesn't exist in the current political and global constellation.
Why this multipolarity is necessary; I don't think is needed to exlain. Just have in mind that when countries could cluster near their superpowerful protectors, nobody would dare to invade or take any actions against them with only their selfish interests in mind. Of course this also has the burden of new tensions and world wars emerging, but unfortunately until the nation-state system is in power, the world is doomed to such a risk; either that or a unilateral imerialistic hegemony from one country. In both cases we can only fight for more sense and empathy in the decision-making process by our leaders, and the respect of law and justice, exercised by institutions even without the enforcement power necessary for them to function properly.
Seeing the present situation, the chances of this multipolarity emerging in the near future are quite real. With the current widespread communication, and fluctuation of ideas and technologies, it is most probably that we'll witness the rise of several global giants (Europe, the East Asian economies, among which India, China, Japan, Pakistan etc.). And now I slowly come close to the alarming title of this post - "The necessity of the "war" between Europe and America". War would not be the right term here, but rivalary - yes. Should Europe unite and strenghten, she cannot (mustn't) allow herself be only a partner to USA, because that would be like deliberately putting yuorself in a hostige-like situation. With no other viable world superpower, the hegemony of unilateralism will continue, just this time with two countries on one side. Instead, becoming a bitter rival (and trustworthy cooperator for the things that they agree, which won't be a lot) in a wolrd of several powerful states, would surely give the crucial balance needed for all countries to function undominated by the big guys. Having a democratic rival, a rival that respects law, peace and justice, would be beneficial for the USA also, if that's the course that EU would take, and given the current tendencies that's most likely.
That is why Europe must struggle to unite, to act as one on global scale, but at the same time maintain its libertarian principle for its citizens, as a mechanism of government control. Fail that, because of some stupid British wankers or Franco-German argument about which car is better - Golf or Renault, and we might soon find ourselves eating only McDonalds and watching Jerry Springer. And an endless serie of Wars against Terror, plane crashes, invasions, protests, constant state of fear and insecurity...
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Aquaman333
Famous Hero
of the seven seas
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posted May 18, 2004 09:57 PM |
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You speak of America like it's some Pit Bull that needs to be kept in check. It's not Europe's responsiblity or right to regulate the US. We'll regulate the US, you worry about yourselves. And for the record, I believe that if there is ANY nation or group of nations that can or will be able to contend with the US within the next twenty years, it's the Chinese not the Europeans. China has an economy growing at such a rate that even the Chinese are being caught off guard.
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"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,
"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 18, 2004 10:04 PM |
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Edited By: Svarog on 18 May 2004
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You speak of America like it's some Pit Bull that needs to be kept in check.
Well, it is actually. Any nation with uncontrolled power would be.
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We'll regulate the US, you worry about yourselves.
I would, as long as you didn't "regulate" the rest of the world too.
And you might be right about China, but I think I mentioned China. And this is a thread about Europe and the need for it to unite. So, your remarks are off further consideration, thank you.
EDIT: China has better growth rate, but Europe is by far more powerful economically and politically than China.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Aquaman333
Famous Hero
of the seven seas
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posted May 18, 2004 10:07 PM |
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Quote:
And you might be right about China, but I think I mentioned China. And this is a thread about Europe and the need for it to unite. So, your remarks are off further consideration, thank you.
It wouldn't be proper argumentative manners to give a point and not back it up. I couldn;t just say,"Europe won't be incontension with the US any time soon". I have to back it up.
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"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,
"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
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