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Heroes Community > Turban Tribunal > Thread: Mod Squad Restructuring
Thread: Mod Squad Restructuring This thread is 48 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 40 ... 44 45 46 47 48 · «PREV / NEXT»
verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Erwin Loses A Kidney
posted April 08, 2017 08:10 PM

for my share pride is usually the main reason users leave when they get offended and suddenly decide to leave after a disagreement, in the sense that they will say "I disagree with you, I will not stand for this anymore and therefore I am leaving", except they do not realise that not standing for this or that anymore never actually leaves any meaningful impact on others' behavior, it just makes us minus a user, so the only point to it is to express one's pride more than anything else lol

therefore do not leave for that reason mate, it would be lame and out of character lol
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 08, 2017 08:40 PM

So, pride is out of character for fred?

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 08, 2017 10:34 PM

it's not out of pride, but disgust. i don't think pride would ever have anything to do with anyone leaving a place they didn't feel comfortable residing/visiting. for instance, i didn't leave the army because i was PROUD. i never quit a job because i was PROUD. lol.

@ artu: i'm NOT proud. i don't know where you guys are getting this from, really. it's confusing the hell out of me.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 08, 2017 10:56 PM

i'm moving what i posted in the vw here(with some additions), since it applies more here than there(and is certainly relevant to issues in hc):

what zeno and verriker said. i sent cor a complaint about frostysh midway into his aggravations, and it was absolutely ignored(i never received a reply, or saw anything done whatsoever). but that's because cor(and some other mods) sees ME as an aggravation. i've come to understand that i can't seek any help whatsoever from certain moderators anymore. to my knowledge, there is only one or two who i can still depend on. it's most likely because i'm not afraid to call mods out on their bullsnow, and i'm not afraid to point out their petty rivalries. so i got on some of the mods' bad sides, and i tend to stay there because of my sense of humor and how it clashes with the coc.

but so snowing what? getting on a mods' bad side shouldn't make a difference. a respectable moderator will do their jobs regardless, and not play favorites or hold grudges like children(admittedly, adults across the globe do this, but that's for another discussion). and like was mentioned, the coc is definitely outdated. i'm sure val had good intentions in the beginning, but we've come to a time where kids don't play heroes games anymore; let alone visit this place. and besides, any kid with access to the internet is already exposed to all the "evils" that humanity has to offer. but i've already said that somewhere, i think. heroes games will no longer lead any younger generation here; it's in no way akin to what the comic book movies do with younger generations. and it's foolish to even expect that at this point; because hc just isn't a place where kids go. they'd be bored out of their minds here, since the heroes games are not relevant in their lives. it'd be like me joining a knitting forum.  

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted April 08, 2017 11:09 PM

Since frosty is mentioned so much, then I'd like to say it's my opinion that it is a good thing that the moderators can moderate upon members despite the pressure that comes from a large part of the community.

My experience is that some ~5 years back, moderators were much easier persuaded by the common attitude of the forum, so if it isn't so anymore then that is definitely a plus in my opinion.

Anyway frosty already has 2 penalties, which means he is being moderated. One more penalty and I believe he'd be extremely limited to how much he can post, so for him it'd hit much harder too.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted April 09, 2017 12:01 AM

fred79 said:
and like was mentioned, the coc is definitely outdated. i'm sure val had good intentions in the beginning...


Anyone (and that includes you) is free to ask for updates, changes, additions or removal of parts of the CoC. Just make the appeal to Valeriy and let him decide. Or, if you (i.e. whoever wants to see changes) want to ask any moderator to convey that request to Valeriy, just go ahead, make the request.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 09, 2017 12:30 AM

lol, val ignores me, too. so, dead end there.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted April 09, 2017 05:47 AM

I'm not persuaded at all by the general whims of the forum membership. I interpret and enforce Valery's rules - rules you all agreed to follow - within the degree of latitude he grants me, and I always have. I do not abuse my powers and I like to think I am fair and patient with when it comes to handing out punishments and reprimands. I am as unbiased and dispassionate as I can be. I do not hold grudges. Why would I?  It's not like I am in this for money or fame, or stand to lose something from anyone's misbehavior, or to gain something by punishing them for it. I think I do an excellent job overall and HC is a better place for my efforts. Is that hubris? I could see why you may think so... but I challenge anyone who was here before I took over to tell me honestly that they think the OSM or the VW was a less orderly forum after I started. Remember, I do this as a volunteer. I don't really get anything from being a moderator. It's not a power trip, because in the end power here is pretty meaningless. It's a very small internet forum.

By and large, you don't need to wait for Valeriy to render judgment on me or my decisions. If the community as a whole feels I am no longer fit to be a moderator here, or you think my application of the Code of Conduct is biased or self-serving, you all need only speak so and I will resign and move on to other things. I am here because I care about HC. I've been a member of the greater HoMM fanbase for around 25 years or so. But if you can convince enough people that HC no longer needs or wants me, then by all means, I will happily go.  
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 09, 2017 08:32 AM

Nobody's questioning your general mod duties regarding organizing or keeping forums neat and tidy, cor. Far from it; you excel in that area, and far better than any other mod here. But you cannot deny that you've let your personal feelings get in the way of some of your duties as a mod; since you have admitted to it before. And certainly, admitting when you've been unfair as a mod is a great quality to have. But I feel that you have fallen back into that same pattern of neglect/abuse, regarding some members(myself included). I have mentioned before that I understand WHY you dislike me overall, but that shouldn't excuse you from your duty to be impartial and fair by any means. And the same goes for maurice, or anyone else in a position of power over others. I understand that there has to be order, and for now the coc is the rulebook. But if you were to follow that outdated rulebook to a T, you would find that hc would get rather vacant pretty fast. Because the rules contained within it don't allow people to be themselves, even if that means just adult humor. Which is ridiculous, because we're ALL adults here. More or less.

Now, the current issue is as I stated in the ignored hcm I sent to you a while back: why a destructive, unrepentant, and malicious troll is being largely ignored by the mods, while benign, productive, and caring members are being targeted over their desire to entertain in a friendly manner.

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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's backside
HC SUPPORTER
posted April 09, 2017 09:01 AM

Ok that's enough. I've been largely quiet about the whole thing, content lying in the shade as I always do, but you whippersnappers are constantly interrupting my naps, so I'm going to fling my 2 cents at you.

This whole troll business... he is not the first one in the history of HC, you know? We've had a plethora of others during the years, some more tolerable, some less. And we survived and moved without so much as a scar to show for it. And it wasn't because people pressured the mods to take action. It was because we as community handled it. Some of the trolls have gone. Others matured and are now active and respected liked adequate members of the community. This would have never happened if the mods would nuke them into oblivion as some have asked. And before you say anything - no, this case is not different.They also refused to listen, they also got on everyone's nerves, they also danced on that fine line of the CoC.

So then what can we do? That's up to each and every one of you to decide for himself/herself. As I see it you have three options:

1. You can fight the troll. You can antagonize him, explain to him that he's not wanted and generally make his life here a living hell until he gets the hint and leaves. That is your prerogative and no one can stop you from doing it. As long, and this is the important part, as you don't let yourself be dragged down yourself beyond that magical CoC line. Because every action has a reaction and you can't be mad at the mods if the uphold the law, even if you feel you've acted in the greater good of all.

2. You can help the troll. You can try to talk to him and explain that what he's doing is bad and why it is bad and how can he improve. If you do this and stick with it you'll be a better person than I will salute you for it. I mean it. But remember, for your own good, that it is not an easy path and that you should not take it personally if you fail. Still, some members got over their destructive ways because there were people to support them, so maybe this choice is worth contemplating.

3. You can ignore the troll. This is my personal favorite. I've used it many times in the past. In fact, I think one of the people in this discussions was the first member I completely ignore for a while until he got less annoying. And this is one of the magics of a written forum - you don't have to read everything... unless you're a mod (my condolences, cor). You don't like a certain person? Ignore him. Skip over his posts. It costs you nothing and it saves you a lot of pointless aggravation. Remember guys, you're in the internet and if you believe someone to be a troll, follow the most important internet rule and don't feed him.


But like I said, the choice is yours. You can do whatever you want with it. Just do me a favor and don't indulge in the one activity that in my eyes is worse than trolling - backseat moderating. I've never been a mod and nowadays I'm not even close to anyone on the Squad, but it still annoys the hell out of me.

P.S. In case you are still wondering who was the first person I ignored, it was ohforf.

Peace out.
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geny is a meanie - fred79

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted April 09, 2017 12:22 PM

Geny said:

P.S. In case you are still wondering who was the first person I ignored, it was ohforf.



You're ruining Fred's chances of seeing greater conspiracies against him by showing your hand like this.

@Fred
I don't understand why you think people don't like you. I think you're one of the most well liked members I've ever seen on these boards. Even people I recall you've had semi-heated discussions with likes you.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted April 09, 2017 02:29 PM

Like Geny, I feel that keeping silent any longer is in the detriment of this discussion and the general picture it creates. Even though this might further antagonize or lead to dissension, I just can't stand for having moderators held responsible for how they perform their duty, especially by a member who's recently got no less than -3 QP and has a record for being a troublemaker. This recurring and frankly low brow melodrama by fred has had one episode far too much. From what I can see, the only reasons for this spectacle are attention-seeking and self-victimization at their finest.

Corribus, you're a great moderator. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, especially not the opposition which has an interest in demonizing you. If there is one thing I would've done differently if I were you, is give fred a much needed break to recollect his thoughts and find his place while also sparing the forum from his unwarranted tantrums.

Also, the fact that there are so many people rallying behind fred even after what he's done astounds me to no end. The clingy coming across like "don't leave the forums" even more so. Do you think you're being more considerate with him by doing so? How about you suggest him to reflect upon his actions instead of encouraging him? What if you suggested to think more about his presence here, maybe he's really incompatible with the CoC and should be better off leaving? Or maybe you can suggest to tone the annoying behavior down and get in line with the CoC? How come no one even thinks to suggest the mature things to do? Or has this place become one of pampering manchildren?

To you, fred, I believe that you're the problem here. Not the moderators, not the CoC, but you. This is not 4chan, this is not your backyard, this is a public forum that wants to keep itself family friendly. This has been explained to you so many times that even I got bored of it. If you can't get that through your head or if you have a problem with it, then either you change or you leave. Don't come complaining after each penalty you get, grow some backbone and act maturely for once.

Anyway, I would rather have this topic closed instead more than anything. This is beyond reprehensible.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
"Stevie's spamfest gave Corribus PTSD." - Kipshasz

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted April 09, 2017 02:45 PM

Everyone, I realise this is a heated topic of debate at the moment, especially since it targets a person in specific, but I would like to remind everyone that "witch hunts" against any particular member aren't allowed by the CoC. It's ok to discuss things in a somewhat sharper tone, but keep in mind that posting just to aggravate any other member will be scrutinized by the mod squad against the CoC. Keep it on the subject, not the person.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Erwin Loses A Kidney
posted April 09, 2017 04:05 PM

I think at least a couple if not more of the above posts are a bit aimed at me as a snipe as well as others, but actually I will not address those provocative posts in this mod squad thread, I think it is better off to HCM me and have a direct discussion if you are sincere to want clarity on my opinion lol
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 09, 2017 04:32 PM

@ohfor: there's another one. Stevie. I have no proof anymore, since those hcm's expired a while back. It's funny, how two former friends became my enemies(not the other way around, since i' m not petty); and both at the same time, and for the exact same reason and under the same circumstances. Both Stevie and Maurice hcm'd me after my outrage at online gamers. Neither of them heard what I had to say. Both of them thought I was merely throwing a tantrum, instead of pointing out an actual issue. And both of them have had a problem with me since, and have been pettily attacking me when they could(just like how Stevie attacks artu every chance he gets). Really, if anyone has been paying any attention, they automatically know what I'm talking about. But whatever. I'm expecting Stevie to be heeded and to get silenced on the issue. Understand, that I'm not throwing a tantrum here. I'm pointing out a legitimate issue, and I'm not angry. Just tired of the bullsnow.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted April 09, 2017 05:53 PM

Fred, I will try one more time to explain the situation as I see it, hopefully it will then dawn on you what my position really is.

First of all, if I wanted you gone, you would be. It's a simple click of a button to get rid of you. I don't and the reason is that I have no personal vendetta against you, besides that being a clear cut case of mod power abuse.

The way I see it, is quite simple, really: there's a set of rules and regulations that have been set up by Valeriy when he made these forums in order to maintain a healthy public platform where people can discuss various subjects, mostly revolving around Heroes of Might and Magic in its many incarnations. While these rules and regulations aren't the end-all, be-all as if they're set in concrete, they are the one and only tool by which the moderator team can keep public order within these forums. If the CoC doesn't match the current situation anymore (society changes, etc ...), then the CoC should be adapted to follow suit. It's up to Valeriy to implement adaptations and changes as he sees fit.

Anyone is free to suggest changes (and proper motivation as to the goal of such a change would make it more likely your point gets across), but that doesn't mean they will get implemented just like that, that'd still be up to Valeriy.

Regardless, the set of rules as they're laid out are the set of rules by which every post is judged. Posts found breaking those rules see their posters disciplined.

Now the point I am trying to make, as this post is not intended about the CoC, but rather why you feel victimized: you've made it clear more than once that you resent the CoC in its current form. You don't respect it for whatever reasons you have (and I suspect you feel it limits your freedom of the content you wish to post). This disrespect has resulted in a number of violations of the CoC, which inadvertently resulted in penalties applied to your account.

Now here's the catch: since you disrespect the CoC, you probably don't think about it while writing your posts. You have thrown out strong language as well as vulgar obscenities, both which violate the CoC as it stands. Moderators enforce the CoC and penalize you for it - yet, since you don't seem to acknowledge the CoC, you also fail to understand why you're being penalized. Whether you simply reject that understanding in the same way you reject the CoC, or whether you really don't see the connection is something I don't know and something probably only you can tell. Instead, you seem to assume that the moderators you're dealing with have a personal feud against you. We don't. The only reason you're running into us is because I tend to frequent the VW section and Corribus is moderating this section; you're simply not dealing much - if at all - with the other moderators and vice versa.

What you're really seeing, though, is a reflection of your own attitude towards the CoC. Your disregard and rejection bounce back on you when you break one (or more) of its rules. It's simple: you do the crime, you do the time.

Quite frankly, moderators should turn a blind eye to everything else a person has done for a forum (or the outside world, for that matter) when dealing with infractions, as it's the only way to maintain a balanced assessment of an infraction regardless of who made the infraction. If you were the President of the United States making that Lady Liberty post, I'd still penalize you for it. If Elvin had made it, or Stevie, I would have penalized them for it, instead.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 09, 2017 06:39 PM

And that's why it doesn't make sense. The statue of liberty is an American symbol. You think I would legitimately disrespect such a thing, AS an American? What I said was tongue-in-cheek(get it? ), and obviously no slight at all against an important figure in American history. It's a chocolate statue, ffs. That you took my humor as offensive, only displays your distaste for me. ONLY. Because I've said those exact same things countless times, and was never penalised or silenced for it. You saw it as another opportunity, like you've attempted before(and like Stevie constantly attempts), and you used it. It was only a flippant joke, with no disrespect intended whatsoever, and you exploited it to get your desire fulfilled. The only reason you don't "make me gone"(as you so eloquently put it), is because your distaste would be made obvious, and you would lose respect among the community. Like I said, you're not fooling anyone who's paying attention.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 09, 2017 06:40 PM

Maurice said:
If you were the President of the United States making that Lady Liberty post, I'd still penalize you for it.

I don't think any of the moderators has a personal grudge against fred or something like that. But trying to look at the situation objectively, the inconsistency I see here is this: The Lady Liberty in the post is simply made out of chocolate, he's talking about eating parts of it, he doesn't use any restricted, banned words, both words he uses are commonly used in the forum, do they turn into a sexual innuendo because of the context, yes, but jokes with sexual innuendos are also pretty common in here and as long as something isn't straight forward pornographic, to my experience, they had always been allowed without any fuss.

So, even if a mod can argue, as a whole, the thread is still not perfectly proper, I don't think it deserves a direct penalty either. At most, editing out the the text and giving a red font warning would have done the job.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 09, 2017 07:28 PM

Double standard is the norm, real life or virtual reality, both proceed same. Your boss will always like someone else more, another one will complain about the boss preferring you and so on. There is nothing wrong about it, it is a challenge about becoming better and you have the tools to overcome it.

And such goes about mods here. Being recruited from long time members, for the most, they have their buddies gangsta defined, as well as people to shot at. Maybe they are just human. Now about Fred, he is testing the limits of how much he is liked then when it fails, he cries about. Just for the record, fred is the only member in HC who deliberately broke the CoC once, as he wanted a penalty for -what he considered- an undeserved red star (which was rewarded upon several people recommendation, as usual). This will hardly help into having trustful further relations later. Fred is doing awesome moding job, why he needs to put himself constantly in danger in other forums is a mystery for me.

But also some members can be more or less special, thus having mods being  tolerant to such posters tics, obsessions or monologues, as for example Ghost -our mascot, is great. For Patenaude, I don't see whats the fuzz, he is not harming or insulting anyone, he truly needs to make an off top post about some hardware every week then he does it in rather calm manner, HC can't handle that without having people asking for a ban, seriously?  As for Frostish, in my opinion, the finger is pointed at the wrong side. All I see is an upsetting mob lynching, and Frostish proved good self control, given the constant contemptuous unveiled personal attacks he is getting, sometimes as first answer and unprovoked. He is not making sense for you, so what? Ignore.
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All my Era II mods

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 09, 2017 07:43 PM

Salamandre said:
All I see is an upsetting mob lynching, and Frostish proved good self control, given the constant contemptuous unveiled personal attacks he is getting, sometimes as first answer and unprovoked. He is not making sense for you, so what? Ignore.

I agree that he sometimes gets picked on by a gang mentality but the complaints can't be reduced to that. There is a level of junk posting that you can ignore and then threads start to transform into something else, not just by his posts but also by posts that are reactionary.

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