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Heroes Community > Turban Tribunal > Thread: The old questions rise again... a few ideas for HC.
Thread: The old questions rise again... a few ideas for HC.
Jebus
Jebus


Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
posted November 11, 2004 06:04 AM
Edited By: Jebus on 11 Nov 2004

The old questions rise again... a few ideas for HC.

Let me start by stating that I know that there is a thread for renovation for HC ideas but I didn't want to simply add my ideas on a list seeing it as these ideas only relate to the structure of the LIBRARY forum (couldn't edit the title for some reason)...  I feel that these could prove helpfull but I would appreciate some feed back from the members......  Here we go:

Over the last couple of weeks, through the threads that I’ve read, posted and replied to, I’ve noticed some recurring themes that seem to be a source of anxiety for some members.  I have a few ideas that I’d like to suggest (some have been mentioned in “noobs Q VS vets patience”).  They try to deal with the ongoing struggle with the arrival of newcomers (myself included) and the issues related to the posting and re-posting the same discussions over and over again and the overall attitude and level of acceptance of these “noobs”.  If I may, I’d like to make a few suggestions:

First…

What would you think of having 2 classes of threads...?

The first would relate to information pertaining to the game (i.e. strategies, stats, calculations, software, online set up, etc.)  This would serve as a primary data bank for information classified almost like an index.  You could then use the search engine to find specific info for a particular topic.  (Ex.: Someone looking for info on how tactics works could check it out here)  This would eliminate repetitive questions from “noobs”.  
The second would be for discussions and consultations.  The subjects would refer to the “whys”…  “Why use this instead of that ” or “why do you think that”.  This part would serve as a discussion board and who’s intent is to discuss, argue and debate.  After the discussion or question has been saturated, the thread could be closed.  
(If any important info arises in these discussions they could be added to the info thread to compliment them)

This way, someone looking for info, how stuff works and so on, could check in the data base for answers and members who have questions and wish to discuss certain things topics could do so without feeling like and imposition  (of course those who don’t wish to reply do not have to.

There’s nothing worse than being told to read the threads for answers and then having to read through 50 pages of opinions and off topic stuff to find them.  This division would allow only pertinent information to be stored in the data base and discussions to be held elsewhere.

Second.

The games skills are based on basic, advanced and expert... why aren't the forums done in the same light. This way someone in the "basic" thread list would expect to get questions pertaining to a beginner. The vets who don't want to be bothered could devote their discussions to the "expert" threads and just talk about really specific details!!! People could float from one category to the next knowing full well what type of threads to expect. (a vet in the “basic” discussion thread would then have no reason to get mad for hearing the same question again and again.  Of course a noob replying noobish topics in the expert threads could then expect to get flamed!!)

By labelling the discussion threads by level of experience would therefore avoid the issue of bored vets and paranoid newcomers.  Opinions change, new strategies are learnt and over all game tactics evolve. It's not always a bad thing to bring up past arguments!! Sometimes new ideas come out of them....  But I can respect the need to give the veterans some breathing room.  This would give them a break.

Folks remember, education and experience are never wasted!   And don’t forget, we were (or are in my case) the “new guy” (or girl) once, so let’s find a way to respect each other’s needs in this community.


(Any comments from other noobys or Vets would be greatly appreciated.)



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Asmodean
Asmodean


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
posted November 11, 2004 03:21 PM

Well this all seems like a good idea in theory Jebus, but it may call for a complete overhaul in the library.
About the info threads, I know the library's Contents thread is a bit out of date, but all that would be needed would be for some industrious member that's interested to make a NEW contents thread. Then the Library Mods could make it a sticky thread and delete the old one.
I'm also sure they'd reward any efforts like this generally *coughcoughqpcoughqp*

Sorry I have a bad cough.

Secondly, while the beginner, advanced, expert thread seems like a cool idea - at the minute in HC you can't rename threads, but you could get around that by compartmentalising the contents thread with 3 sections.

And while you might stick to this system, how do you get others to do it?
A new person sitting at home and stumbling onto the site having never played multiplayer but has completed all the campaigns on impossible 20 times in a row might think they're 'Expert'.
And they are, for the one player games - then they see the strategies used by online vets and think 'what the hell?'
Cue another n00b-bashing and we're back where we started.

If you have any more suggestions arising from this, then cool, let's hear them
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Jebus
Jebus


Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
posted November 11, 2004 05:05 PM

(most ideas are good in theory, we just need a way to make them reality)

....  thanks for your reply

I do agree that it would require a HUGE renovation of the library (most major changes are never simple) and I'd do it myself but I don't know nutin' about programming (so suggesting the idea is one thing, making it happen is completely different).

...  some small solutions to your concerns:
when starting the data base (that I like to call it) we would just extract all "non discussion" type information from the present threads (meaning the "how" this works, stats, or procedures) so that what's in the library is only information....  Seeing it as I'm sure we don't want to just erase all the past threads, these could be placed in an Archives thread (that we could access to see the evolution of some old ideas)

  The problem I see with the library is that it's cluttered with discussions and arguments, making it very difficult for a noob to find what he needs at the time.  There are some really good info in there but it's not always easy to access.

...  your second point was a good one, I hadn't thought of that...  

But a simple solution to that would be to use the yellow star count (or yellow and red combined) to give people access to each division...  It would be a way to give signority to older members (no offence oldtimer) and allow them to not be bombarded with "noobish" questions...  also stopping your "believes himself an expert" to jump straight into expert....  The categories would not be in reference necessarily to your skill, but more your experience in HC.  

...let me know what you think....


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Asmodean
Asmodean


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
posted November 11, 2004 05:18 PM

The first point would require a lot of work by a library mod, and since we can't extract individual posts and move them to another thread, it'll be tougher.

The second point is the major problem imo.
Look at the TOH forum, you'll find lots of vets that only post there and Library and so don't havea lot of stars.
So using your system they'd be beginners, when they're actually advanced.

Believe me I'm not trying to tear down your ideas, they'd be great if we had the resources, but we have to work with what we've got.
Sorry if you think I'm just shooting you down, I'm not, and again, if you see a way around it then let us know.
Keep up the brainstorming
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Jebus
Jebus


Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
posted November 11, 2004 06:17 PM

Quote:
The first point would require a lot of work by a library mod, and since we can't extract individual posts and move them to another thread, it'll be tougher.

The second point is the major problem imo.
Look at the TOH forum, you'll find lots of vets that only post there and Library and so don't havea lot of stars.
So using your system they'd be beginners, when they're actually advanced.

Believe me I'm not trying to tear down your ideas, they'd be great if we had the resources, but we have to work with what we've got.
Sorry if you think I'm just shooting you down, I'm not, and again, if you see a way around it then let us know.
Keep up the brainstorming


Keep in mind that I'm not very software litterate....  I can come up with the ideas but that's why I ask for opinions.....  I don't think you're shooting me down... I appreciate the feedback to see how tough my ideas would be to administrate....

thanks.
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Conan
Conan


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Supreme Hero
posted November 12, 2004 04:38 PM
Edited By: Conan on 12 Nov 2004

just my 2 cents

Why not have a forum that discusses single player games (against AI) and another forum for multiplayer tactics?

I have found that some of the tactics used by the vets in multiplayer don't work all that well against the computer. The templates on the zone.com are alot different than the random ones. They are alot richer and in single player games and you play the game as it is: ALL spells including Fly, DD and 4th level spell heroes if you want.
In this way, there would be clear distinctions and less N00b calling from the vets on players who think they know all the aspect of a game. The fact is they don't play on the zone, but still might have good opinions.
And lastly, in the zone, games don't last as long and most of the sweet spells are taken out of the game, all the games are edited and Heroes as we (the N00bs) know it is not the same. It would simply be nice to have discussions where we could talk online only and AI only.

Both ways of playing the game use different tactics. I'd like to see the community reflect that.
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Vadskye91
Vadskye91


Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
posted November 12, 2004 04:55 PM

Back to dividing the threads by experience level...  Why not use the Thread Ratings feature for that?  It seems perfect for it...
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Conan
Conan


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Supreme Hero
posted November 12, 2004 05:06 PM

Quote:
Back to dividing the threads by experience level...  Why not use the Thread Ratings feature for that?  It seems perfect for it...


Because not everyone can rate a thread.
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Jebus
Jebus


Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
posted November 12, 2004 05:38 PM
Edited By: Jebus on 12 Nov 2004

Quote:
Back to dividing the threads by experience level...  Why not use the Thread Ratings feature for that?  It seems perfect for it...


Asmodean had a good point on that suggestion...
If someone feels he's an expert, he may rate his thread higher....  personaly I think that we should have to earn the right to access the higher ranking discussions....
Since the mods already rate some replies and hand out stars, why not do the same for upgrading your access authority???  If the mods, or other members feel that I show enough experience to join the advanced or expert, then they can decide.  I had suggested the yellow star count give accessibility but Asmodean had a good point there too!!!


And the point isn't to have a thread rated, it's the accessability of new members to discussions that they can relate to...  I've been here a month, I'm sure the vets would appreciate discussion things without me sticking my "noob" nose in their threads!!

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pandora
pandora


Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
posted November 14, 2004 05:30 AM
Edited By: pandora on 13 Nov 2004

I think the idea of thread rating to show skill level is a great idea - also I think that another rating for multi-player & single player would serve well to meet Conan's request too.

The main problem that I have with putting the ratings into members' hands can lead to abuse of the system. I would say that the vast majority would use the ratings as they are intended, but the problem lies in that 2% that likes to muck things up for everyone. In example, with the thread ratings as they are now there are members who when bored will give random ratings to every thread, even changing ones that were set intentionally just for their own ha-ha -- and while it may be just a joke, I get the angry IM's from people wanting to know why their thread was "unrelated" now when yesterday it was "funny".

I think that new ratings could work with the system that we have now -- one would just have to IM someone with the ability to rate threads to have this done.
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Jebus
Jebus


Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
posted November 15, 2004 08:21 PM

.....  Problem being that the thread rating system in no way answers the question of noobs asking the same questions over and over again and the annoyance that this can cause the vets....

The original idea of class promotion (or signority) was to avoid that.   Although the idea of promoting to an advanced or expert level of threads is, from what I've heard alot of work, it would minimize the meddling of an imposing noob.  (I can see from some of the reactions to this thus far, that we prefer to find solutions that require less overhall of HC, which is fair of course)

I don't see how the idea of thread rating avoids the innitial problem...  This does not give vets the peace of mind of participating in more advanced discussions while giving new members the freedom to ask questions among members that wish to share their experiences and ideas.

... just my opinion

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pandora
pandora


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Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
posted November 20, 2004 06:28 AM

Hmm, its true that it doesn't really solve the problem of new members asking questions that have already been asked before, but I really don't think that is a problem we can solve.

Your initial point about the searchable database makes sense, and the layout could prove to be more accessible for some people; however the same thing can be accomplished with Google searching the site. The problem lies in that the people asking the question are generally not opting to look for an answer first.

Perhaps one possible solution would be to make a Library sticky detailing a few helpful library tips. In example it could explain that most questions have been asked before, so please search for your answer before posting - with an explanation as to how on would go about doing that. It could direct members to the Index thread as well. Another Idea might be to recommend that if a new member has a question they could put {new} in their main subject line, as a means of showing they are new to the forum? Also in the same vein one might use {S.P} to show that their question is Single Player related.

Such a thing would need to be worked through in more detail of course, I'm just throwing an idea out there  My thinking mainly though, is that we really won't find a way to keep someone from new from just popping in an opening a new thread most of the time - at this point HoMM 3 is a pretty old game, should someone happen upon it and find their way to HC they likely won't wish to search through years of history when its so much quicker for them to pop open a new thread.

And lastly (sorry for being long winded!) its always helpful for regular posters to help out the new members. If a new poster asks a question you know has been asked before, why not direct them to the thread and encourage them to read through and continue that discussion. Once a moderator has seen that the new poster has moved to the old thread, their new thread can be removed and we keep HC a clean and happy place
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."

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