|
| Thread: The Voice of Moderation has Just Left the Building... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
|
Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
|
posted November 15, 2004 08:27 PM |
|
|
|
Vadskye91
Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
|
posted November 15, 2004 09:02 PM |
|
|
Yeah... Has anyone else noticed that the Bush administration is removing their people for far more conservative ones? Even Ashcroft, strong conservative that he was, has been replaced by a even greater right-wing who called the Geneva Convention "outdated" and "obsolete" in the face of the war on . For those of you who don't know, the Geneva Convention (sp?) was the one that stated how you may treat war prisoners. He also supports torturing suspected Al Queda members for information. Does anyone else think that we're moving towards a hardline right-wing administration?
I sense a disturbance in the Force... 
____________
Knowledge is power...
|
|
Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
|
|
posted November 15, 2004 09:38 PM |
|
|
That's exactly the point -- exactly why I think this is a very bad development.
Worst-case scenario: things could get downright fascist on us much quicker than the apparently mesmerised American Public seems to understand.
Thanks for your response Vad.
|
|
Vadskye91
Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
|
posted November 15, 2004 09:49 PM |
|
|
Yeah, the public just isn't responding to the bad signs that so consistently present themselves... it's like they just think, "Yeah, that's the way things work." This attitude is what's letting the Bush administration do what they want. Nobody cares, it's so frustrating!
____________
Knowledge is power...
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted November 15, 2004 11:13 PM |
|
|
Hmm...
This development was unexpected for me. I wonder if Bush plans to take a more aggressive reproach to the Palestinians now. In the past, Powell had accomplished a great deal to expedite and enforce a more peaceful resolution.
Somehow, I must question if this was the best decision. I think it was less than prudent to be sure.
____________
Roses Are Red And So Am I
|
|
Daddy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
and why not.
|
|
posted November 15, 2004 11:25 PM |
|
|
now the only good man of this cabinett is gone...
a bummer...
reg
Daddy
____________
|
|
shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 15, 2004 11:33 PM |
|
|
Powell was definitely the only member of the administration with any sense of how deal with the rest of the world other than pissing them off by being a pseudo-cowboy-hardliner-conservative-macho-wannabe going alone into the dark night of war. As a soldier, he understands what that is about, something Bush and Cheney don't have any personal experience with at all. How they sold themselves to the American public as being military friendly when they both avoided service is one of the great public relation con jobs of all time.
Because of his resignation, which came about because Bush didn't offer another term to him, I'm afraid this country is moving into a regressive-conservative phase, where " moral values" have replaced true vision and forward thinking. This is not the type of philosophy that made America great, but it may will be the kind that will bring it down.
____________
|
|
Vadskye91
Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
|
|
posted November 15, 2004 11:50 PM |
|
|
It's an extremist! Run!
I'm not saying I disagree with you... completely... But saying it like that makes us sound like extremists, doncha think?
____________
Knowledge is power...
|
|
shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 15, 2004 11:57 PM |
|
|
Gee, I thought I was just being clear about what I think.....that's what the whole election was about, being clear and decisive 
____________
|
|
Vadskye91
Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
|
|
posted November 16, 2004 12:04 AM |
|
|
Yeah... We had two options
1. John Kerry, who agonizes over the facts before making a decision.
2. George Bush, who doesn't consider the facts at all before making a decision.
But to get back on topic, I wonder who they're replace him with?
____________
Knowledge is power...
|
|
shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 16, 2004 12:24 AM |
|
|
Rice is mentioned as a likely replacement. I think who he picks will be a good indicator as whether or not he has learned anything about diplomacy, or is just going to go farther along the road of "whither I go, you better follow or you're not my friend".
____________
|
|
Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
|
|
posted November 16, 2004 12:57 AM |
|
|
Now, I don't mean to interrupt this conspiracy fest...yes I do.
Colin Powell leaving the cabinet is no shock to me, didn't he say he would leave after the first term a year or so ago? Or am I the only one that heard that?
Colin Powell leaving the cabinet does not turn the US into a "Nazi Germany" type place. It's a ridiculous thing to say, we are no where close to that.
I'd like to see your reasoning for this comparison. The economy is on the way up. No one is restricting freedom of speech, if anything the ACLU (a liberal organization) is the biggest attacker of this. The US Special Forces are not rounding up US citizens who don't agree with the government and throwing them into camps, terrorists are another story.
And you say the replacement for Ashcroft is more conservative? He's a Mexican, how conservative can he really be?
____________
|
|
shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 16, 2004 01:57 AM |
|
|
No, you're right Wolfman, Nazi America is not here. But a valued voice of moderation has left the administration, leaving the door open for...well, something. As I heard it on CNN today, he was planning to leave, but certain things happened that opened his mind to maybe staying on. However, Bush never offered him that opportunity to continue, so he stayed with his original decision.
One of things that happened was Arafat's death. I guess Powell believed there was an opportunity made by his passing for new initiatives to take place.
As to the economy being way up, that is somewhat of an illusion. The dollar is way down, the deficit is huge, and the war is a drain on the governments ability to focus elsewhere. Sure, Bush may cut taxes further, gut social security, do away with medicare, all those things that benefit people with a few million dollars in the bank, but unless you have that few million dollars, its going to get alot harder for you in this country.
So again I ask, how did this guy fool all those middle class people into voting for him? The answer is, he started a war (I refer only to Iraq, not Afghanistan), and having learned from his fathers mistakes, continued it into the election so people wouldn't concentrate on how bad he has done elsewhere.
____________
|
|
bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
|
|
posted November 16, 2004 02:23 AM |
|
|
Quote:
He's a Mexican, how conservative can he really be?
Care to explain this comment, Wolfman?
____________
Drive by posting.
|
|
Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
|
|
posted November 16, 2004 03:51 AM |
|
|
Quote:
As to the economy being way up...
I said it's on it's way up, not that it is way up. There's a big difference there.
Quote:
He's a Mexican, how conservative can he really be?
Care to explain this comment, Wolfman?
Most Hispanics vote for the Democrat. That's a fact. That's where that comment came from.
____________
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted November 16, 2004 04:02 AM |
|
Edited By: Consis on 15 Nov 2004
|
bort
This is where you learn more about Texas and Oklahoma than you ever wanted to know. They are their own sort of Red when it comes to the Republican party.
When I was growing up in Texas a lot of people were racist against hispanics(Mexican), including my mother. To refer to them as such is overtly common and bluntly rude but no one down there seems to ever speak out about this issue.
When I hear Wolfman say that, it makes me cringe and have flashbacks of highschool when my fellow students would take it a step further by colorfully/creatively using terms as: 'Messcan, Wetback, Beaner(orange-picker if from California), Gangster,' etc...
Oh how I hate my home state for their arrogance. I don't know about Oklahoma but Texas actually has a constitutional clause dating back from the civil war that gives the state the right to secede from the union at any time.
Oregon, I love you....
____________
Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
|
|
bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
|
|
posted November 16, 2004 04:06 AM |
|
|
Most African Americans vote Democrat as well, does that mean that Clarence Thomas and Condoleezza Rice aren't conservative? Most White people vote Republican, does that mean that Michael Moore or, for that matter, John Kerry are conservative? Ethnicity doesn't place some sort of physical limit on how conservative or liberal one "can" be. That's a fact, too. My understanding of Gonzales(who, by the way, is American, not Mexican. Perhaps you meant Hispanic. Or are you European? Does that mean when you complain about those horrible Europeans who *gasp* didn't want to go to war, you're complaining about yourself?) is that he does happen to be less conservative than Ashcroft, but that's more a result of there being approximately 3 beings in the entire universe that are more conservative than Ashcroft.
Thank you for summing up the Republican world view more succinctly than I could, though :
Greatest threat to Liberty? The ACLU!
What determines one's beliefs? Pigmentation!
____________
Drive by posting.
|
|
Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
|
|
posted November 16, 2004 04:07 AM |
|
|
Now I'm a racist, this is just wonderful...you really made my day...
____________
|
|
terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
|
|
posted November 16, 2004 11:32 AM |
|
|
I wouldn't actually call your comment "racist" (after all, you didn't say that one "race" is superior to another, which is the defiinition of racism), but I would say it was somewhat generalizing. But bort made this point better than I ever could, so I'll leave it at this...
As for Powell, I heard on the news this morning that he's replaced by Rice.
____________
"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
|
|
Vadskye91
Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
|
posted November 16, 2004 04:37 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Colin Powell leaving the cabinet does not turn the US into a % Germany" type place. It's a ridiculous thing to say, we are no where close to that.
And nowhere did we say that... And just because that's not happening doesn't mean it's not worse now...
Quote:
I'd like to see your reasoning for this comparison. The economy is on the way up.
Granted... but only time will tell.
Quote:
No one is restricting freedom of speech, if anything the ACLU (a liberal organization) is the biggest attacker of this.
Proof please? I hadn't heard anything about that.
Quote:
The US Special Forces are not rounding up US citizens who don't agree with the government and throwing them into camps, ists are another story.
Yes... that's true... but again, (to use an analogy) just because your house isn't burning up doesn't mean you should ignore the fire in your toaster...
Quote:
And you say the replacement for Ashcroft is more conservative? He's a Mexican, how conservative can he really be?
Let's see... He has said that he believes the Geneva Convention does not apply to Al-Queda, at the beginning of his White House tenure, Gonzales wrote an executive order making it easier to keep presidential papers sealed and repeatedly cited executive privilege to keep
secret the makeup and activities of an industry task force convened by Vice President Dick Cheney to help set energy policy. (he said essentially "No, you're not supposed to know who is setting energy policy. Or what they said, or what they're doing. Now bug off.")
Gonzales also handled 57 petitions of clemency from condemned prisoners, but sometimes provided Bush with only cursory reviews of the cases, leaving out crucial information such as ineffective counsel and evidence of innocence.
Yes, I do in fact believe that he is more conservative. If you can provide evidence to the contrary...
____________
Knowledge is power...
|
|
|
|
