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| Thread: The Miracle |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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Korejora
Promising
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posted January 11, 2005 03:02 AM |
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Yes, the religion most definitely has flaws, in my view. That would be why I'm not Satanist.
But still... That rule,
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4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy"
means neither that we are beasts nor that we should kill anyone who annoys us. 'Lair' is just a "fun" word to use to indicate 'home', and that suits the religion quite well; if you are the kind of fun-loving person that would work well with LaVey's Satanism, you would not find the home being referred to as the 'lair' offensive or derogatory in any way. And "treat him cruelly and without mercy"... how did you get "kill him" out of that?? It means to be cruel to him, and not to show mercy when the person reacts in whatever way they do. "Treating someone cruelly" means to make fun of them or... well... be cruel to them! I have no idea how you figured this meant you should "do in all those who annoy you".
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Lets see, my Uncle molested me as a kid, so I should molest people.
What? Hello, misinterpretation! Again, I don't understand how you could have gotten this. No, you shouldn't molest people, because people didn't molest you, your Uncle did. "Do unto others as they do unto you." The philosophy is saying that you should molest your Uncle back for molesting you. If someone hits you, hit them back. If someone does something bad to you, do the same thing back to them. I suppose the logic behind that is that you're showing them what they're doing to you and they might realize that it's not nice to be on the receiving end of that, so they won't do it to people anymore. I don't know; it's not my philosophy. But still...
Shiva, I think you're grossely reading into the religion in the worst way you possibly can because you were prejudiced against it from the beginning, simply because it's named after Satan. It looks like to me you pulled out the few worst things, the flaws there are in the religion, and then jumped on them. I could be wrong, but that's how you're coming off to me.
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That's the best part. 
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted January 11, 2005 03:15 AM |
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if you are the kind of fun-loving person that would work well with LaVey's Satanism
LOL. Fun-loving... haha, funny, but to a certain point it rings with truth, though not in the sense that u meant it probably.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 11, 2005 04:39 AM |
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Well, yeah its fun... makes you think and be clear in what you see. I do like that. Yes, I went after Satanism, because, quite frankly, it deserves it. All the precepts would be better represented without the name Satanism. By using that name, Lavey broke one of his laws.
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Pretentiousness—Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.
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By using that name, he was just trying to catch everyones attention..empty posturing, pretentious representation.
And, so violates the first sin of stupidity, because he too was playing the empty media game of trying to impress people.
However, I am glad you both said you do not follow this
because it is beneath both of you.
When I debate, I take one side. The truth is never that simple. Words are flawed in trying to represent that, but they are good at emphasizing a point. My point was and is
there are too many holes in this way of thinking for me even to want to study it further.
It is matter of personal experience whether or not one believes in an Infinite Divine being, not any rules or dogma. If you see it, then it is so for you. If not, then you don't. After looking at myself way to closely, studying numerous books and scriptures, and living and enjoying and suffering, I have come to the conclusion there is more that I don't know then I know.
However, I do know there is an illuminated place deep within my spiritual heart, because I have seen it. That puts all my other experience of life in the area of shadow. What I mean, is it is truer and more real than anything else that appears in this illusion of a world.
I hope you read the four agreements... I do like them..always try your best 
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted January 11, 2005 08:55 AM |
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The miracles keep on coming...
After recovering from writing the Post about my grandfathers I meant to write about other issues brought up in this Thread. Unfortunatly, on Wednesday, my wife started cramping and bleeding badly, so we went to the Hospital Emergency (free Health Care in Canada). After many tests and examinations (and 22 hours!!!), the doctors concluded that my wife was having a miscarriage.  So, it looks like my plans to become a father will have to wait, as my plans to write again in this Thread did.
Anyways, here I am! My wife & I are sad from time-to-time, but we are grateful for the experience and hopeful for the future. I especially want to stress to all of you that although this situation has changed my beliefs, it only did so by reinforcing them. Despite the grief my wife & I feel inside, we gained a renewed awe of "life" throughout this experience. We now appreciate how the creation of "life" is a complex & beautiful process, but also very fragile!
We were talking yesterday about how "life" is an amazing thing! Some times it is frail, and sometimes it is indestructible! "Life" truly is a miracle/blessing in itself! 
*On another topic: Consis, Shai-Hulud, Korejora, & guitarguy...Did you guys ever check out our Philosophy question over a glass of beer? Our discussion started on the origin of the universe (sort of) then ended up evolving into something that is very relative to subject in the first 2 pages of this Thread. You guys should check it out. 
Svarog, after reading some of the points brought up about "Satanism", I would have to agree that some of them are valid. These same messages, however, are redundant in other philosophies, as demonstrated by your comparisons with socialism, existantialism, & individualism. Don't get me wrong, I still think there were flaws to the method used to pass on the message, but I can still appreciate how "Satanism" was used to reach a different group of people. Furthermore...
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Satanists don’t live in a dreamland, and they know that not all people are compassionate, so they’re prepared what to expect and how to act. A Satanist isnt an emotional slave to morality, gods or other people. A Satanist accepts his emotions as reflective totality of who he is. He indulges, he feels, he lives. He doesn’t abstain, control or wait to live. He exists here and now, and intends to use every moment of that precious time that is given to him.
If this message also holds true for your philosophy of choice, which is socialism/existantialism (correct me if I am wrong), then maybe my last paragraph can also apply to our relationship. Since I believe in the individual's responsibility to understand EVERYTHING using their Infinite Soul and you believe that an individual is ultimately responsibile for everything they do during their finite life, maybe we aren't that far off from each other. We might be heading towards "similar" destinations, but just taking different paths. Like you & I, many people with different beliefs hear a similar message, but from different mediums.
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted January 11, 2005 06:21 PM |
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Leo_Lion
I am so sorry for your loss Leo_Lion. I can never truly feel what you feel but I am very saddened from what you say. I'm sure your wife is in a delicate state and needs a great deal of love and understanding right now. My wife and I sympathize with your pain and we hope you find the strength to carry through this difficult time.
Having a child is precious. Perhaps now you will be even more happy when the two of you are eventually successful in bringing a new life into this world. I wish you all the best wishes and pray with all the hope a friend can offer.
Try to remember that you're not alone in this world. Many people suffer from the same circumstances. Miscarriages and other pregnancy-related complications are quite common. My ex-wife and I experienced a handful of despondent miscarriages, my brother has had 2-3, my best friend has had 3, and another friend of mine had his child born with only one lung.
I know you two will be successful someday so don't give up hope. For some people it takes a lot of hard work and special care/advice from a qualified birthing physician. Either way the end result is the same: a precious child that has two loving parents.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted January 12, 2005 04:43 AM |
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Thanks Jake & Shai-Hulud...
My wife & I appreciate your kind words and thoughts. She is actually working through this ordeal very well...day-by-day. She is on a Discussion Board (WeddingBells.ca) and is getting great support from the members there, as well.
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted January 13, 2005 03:22 AM |
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My wife & I appreciate your kind words and thoughts. She is actually working through this ordeal very well...day-by-day. She is on a Discussion Board (WeddingBells.ca) and is getting great support from the members there, as well.
I'm glad to hear about the support you two are receiving from others. Further, I hope your situation continues to improve and that happiness will again manifest itself. Thank you so much for sharing your story; it must've been so hard for you two.
-guitarguy
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 13, 2005 02:56 PM |
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Edited By: Shiva on 13 Jan 2005
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Leo, I'm sorry to hear of that. I do hope your
wife is ok and the next time is successful. Best
to you and your wife!
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 21, 2005 10:23 PM |
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I am so sorry for your loss Leo_Lion. I can never truly feel what you feel but I am very saddened from what you say. I'm sure your wife is in a delicate state and needs a great deal of love and understanding right now. My wife and I sympathize with your pain and we hope you find the strength to carry through this difficult time.
- Consis
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I'm glad to hear about the support you two are receiving from others. Further, I hope your situation continues to improve and that happiness will again manifest itself. Thank you so much for sharing your story; it must've been so hard for you two.
-guitarguy
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I know you two will be successful someday so don't give up hope. For some people it takes a lot of hard work and special care/advice from a qualified birthing physician. Either way the end result is the same: a precious child that has two loving parents.
- Consis
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Leo, I'm sorry to hear of that. I do hope your
wife is ok and the next time is successful. Best
to you and your wife!
-Shiva
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Very, very sad to hear that Leo...
- angelito
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Indead!
Sorry to hear that;i'm also sory that i've pushed you earlier with those IM's rushing you to play. I hadn't read your last post at the time.If you feel it's not a good time, or feel you need to spend more time with your wife, i'll understand and we can play whenever you fell like it(i'm not such a studious guy after all so i guess a game won't do any harm even if i have the exams )
Not much more to say, this is very sad indead
-Tigris
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Léo, I'm glad to see you are taking this the right (or good) way. It is a strengh you seem to have to take the best out of grim situations. It's nice to see you go. I am very confident for you in the future.
- Conan
This is such a wonderfull board. All the support I see for one of my friend really makes me happy. It's incredible how this kind of support brings people together and really shows our true nature.
This is one of the reasons that I keep coming back because I too feel that some people care about what I have to say. I find this board really offers alot of nice solidarity and I just wanted to write this to make everyone realize how we can all stand with each other, and how, because this is not a physical environment (Internet), alot of the judgement we make in our everyday lives are not present.
It really is wonderfull to see such a place exist. And I am proud to be part of it.
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 22, 2005 12:58 AM |
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This is such a wonderfull board. All the support I see for one of my friend really makes me happy. It's incredible how this kind of support brings people together and really shows our true nature.
This is one of the reasons that I keep coming back because I too feel that some people care about what I have to say. I find this board really offers alot of nice solidarity and I just wanted to write this to make everyone realize how we can all stand with each other, and how, because this is not a physical environment (Internet), alot of the judgement we make in our everyday lives are not present.
It really is wonderfull to see such a place exist. And I am proud to be part of it.
Aye, Conan, and that is The Miracle 
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted July 16, 2005 10:06 PM |
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Edited By: Romana on 17 Jul 2005
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revived!
those 4 agreements are so precious!
It seems so simple as you're reading what they are, yet it is so difficult to change feelings.
..I hope someday I can teach these to my children
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The darkest skies show the brightest stars
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2005 11:57 AM |
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revived!
those 4 agreements are so precious!
It seems so simple as you're reading what they are, yet it is so difficult to change feelings.
..I hope someday I can teach these to my children
Do your best
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twotone
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 02, 2005 09:16 PM |
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In response to Leo asking in another thread what my philosophy is, I thought i would post something I wrote a few years ago, which still has relevance to me today:
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The Miracle
It has always been a part of religious thinking that miracles exist and by their very existence, it is proved that God exists. Without the miraculous, only the ordinary remains, a vision of life missing the extraordinary aspects that transcend human nature and without the transcendence of human nature, people are left in the ignorance of day to day life and thinking that leaves little room or time for appreciating the divine, beautiful creation. Business prevails, a chaotic sea of competition where every body is in it for themselves to the exclusion of the life around them.
I for one was initially attracted to the spiritual path for these reasons: that something else seemed to be needed than was offered in the schools and by society in general, and that the miraculous was possible if one only believed , and attainable if one was diligent and practiced hard enough. Through the twists and turns that only living can supply, I found my self in a situation where healing was needed and I spent a great deal of energy and time meditating on my body trying to influence a healing process that just went its own way and took its own time. In producing a miracle , I failed, but success came from a different source altogether.
Some of us have been influenced by scriptures and stories of amazing doings by Gurus and Saints, influenced so that we expect that something beyond imagination will occur if only we finally get it right in our meditation or spiritual practice. What if the miracle lies in the very life that we are trying so hard to leave behind or transform? What if the miracle lies in the day to day happenings that we don't appreciate because they are too usual and ordinary? What if the miracle lies in the very physical location that we ran away from all our lives because we thought it was the source of suffering in our minds?
If I have a glass of water and that water turns to wine, this is said to be a miracle. People will come from miles around and the religious authorities will show up to ascertain if this really happened and look to declare someone a saint if no earthly explanation can be had for such a happening. If I have a glass of water and it just sits there and remains a glass of water, nobody will notice or think anything unusual has occurred. But the very fact that the glass exists with water in it and I can put it to my lips and drink is a miracle. The very existence of anything in this life is an incredible event which gets forgotten in the day to day flow of life which seems ordinary and banal. Only when something different occurs which has never before been seen or explained do we think that God exists and the universe is in good hands. The thing is, nobody has ever successfully explained how any of this creation really takes place. It can be said there was a Big Bang, or it just appeared out of nowhere, but all these theories are either a scientific or philosophical-religious attempt at explaining the unexplainable. No theory concocted by a human mind can unravel what is essentially a mystery, which is: from where did all this come and why is it happening? To comfort our minds, many explanations can be had, but if we are brave enough to accept that life is an incredible event that cant be totally defined and analyzed but can be lived and experienced with a sense of awe and reverence, then the miracle of the moment leaps out grabs our beings.
To seek the extraordinary is not a vain pursuit. Without having traveled, one can never eventually settle down with the spiritual curiosity satisfied and the desire to know what one thinks they don't know at peace. The vanity comes in the great expectation of things that the scriptures and spiritual books have told us are possible, and then success is measured in whether or not these things happen in our own lives. How misleading are those books that take us away from appreciating the life, thinking that unless something spectacular happens, God doesn't exist. Life as a human being is a most amazing thing and if we can accept that, then it becomes a divine happening.
God has given us a sufficient explanation (the only sufficient explanation) of creation in Genesis 1-3. The problem is not with the explanation but with most people's failure to accept what has been revealed to them. If anyone wants to discuss this in more detail, please feel free to e-mail me at tommylebowitz@yahoo.com.
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Korejora
Promising
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posted November 05, 2005 04:07 AM |
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God has given us a sufficient explanation (the only sufficient explanation) of creation in Genesis 1-3. The problem is not with the explanation but with most people's failure to accept what has been revealed to them. If anyone wants to discuss this in more detail, please feel free to e-mail me at tommylebowitz@yahoo.com.
What's Genesis 1-3?
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That's the best part.
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Guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted November 05, 2005 07:30 AM |
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What's Genesis 1-3?
Chapters 1 through 3 of the Book of Genesis, I think.
-Guitarguy
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