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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Hurricane Katrina topic
Thread: Hurricane Katrina topic [ This thread is 4 pages long: (1) 2 3 4 ]
Aquaman333
Aquaman333


Famous Hero
of the seven seas
posted August 31, 2005 03:45 PM

Hurricane Katrina topic

Well, the damage is done, now it's time to begin rescue and clean up of the damage. The news is saying that upwards towards a thousand people could potentially be dead. As of right now, 100+ people are confirmed dead and thousands are missing.

You know, back during the tsunami America offered hundreds of millions of dollars in relief. I myself, donated 150 dollars. It'll be interesting to see if anyone returns the favor. Don't worry I'm not holding my breath.
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Conan
Conan


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted August 31, 2005 03:54 PM

Nice topic.

I agree with you, I would also like to see donations from the people who received. Yet, we are talking about a third world country so ...

You live right in the midst of it? In New Orléans?

In any case, we are getting the remnants of it here in Ottawa since last night... quite a bit of water, but nothing like you down south.
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Draco
Draco


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 31, 2005 05:33 PM

Indeed, I was wondering how long it would take for this topic to come up.

I wouldn't expect anywhere near the contributions sent to the US as were sent to the Tsunami victims. for 1 simple reason, the US doesn't need the money like the oceanic/asian countries did. We are holding Drives with the Canadian Red Cross all over the country, but I wouldnt expect the outpouring like the Tsunami tragidy.

I am not saying this disaster is either better or worse, as its still to early to tell. I don't plan on donating more then I did for the Christmas massacre.

look on the bright side though with all the assistance you will receive (donations/insurance) you can expect New Orleans to become a really really nice place to visit (assuming they get all the toxins out).

I'm keepin my eyes on CNN for the next little while.

Good Luck whoevere is stranded down there.

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Aquaman333
Aquaman333


Famous Hero
of the seven seas
posted August 31, 2005 06:13 PM

Just to clarify, I don't actually live anywhere near New Orleans. I simply know a few people from around there.

Anyway, I'm saying that Katrina rivals the tsunami, but the idea of helping to put New Orleans back together and getting the people of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, etc. back into their homes.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted August 31, 2005 06:59 PM

Actually Mississippi and Alabama are probably as poor if not poorer than a lot of the countries smashed by the tsunami.  They are the poorest states the nation, so just because they are part of the United States doesn't mean they necessarily have lots of money to deal with such a catastrophe.

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Aquaman333
Aquaman333


Famous Hero
of the seven seas
posted August 31, 2005 10:10 PM

Quote:
Actually Mississippi and Alabama are probably as poor if not poorer than a lot of the countries smashed by the tsunami.  They are the poorest states the nation, so just because they are part of the United States doesn't mean they necessarily have lots of money to deal with such a catastrophe.


That's certainly true. I know I'm getting a few guys from my neighborhood together and we're going to start collecting some money and wire it down to a friend of mine in Montgomery who needs every penny. He has a lot of repair work he needs done.(He's a high school PE teacher who makes like 32,000 a year or something like that)
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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted September 01, 2005 12:56 AM

You know, I would totally love to set up a benefit concert to aid in the rescue and reconstruction. It's something R.E.M. would do, and the money would go to a good cause. It's just too bad it's not plausible right now. It's junk not being able to help in the best way you can.

-guitarguy
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted September 01, 2005 01:44 PM

This one makes me laugh

This one makes me laugh.

FROM THE SAUDI EMBASSY WATCH E-LIST

Quote:
On August 31, King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz called U.S. President George W. Bush offering condolences to the victims of the disaster and the people of the United States from the government and people of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia over the loss of life and destruction caused by Hurricane Katrina.

King Abdullah affirmed that Saudi Arabia stands with the United States as it faces this tragedy, and is ready to provide assistance to mitigate its effects and consequences.

On Monday, Minister of Petroleum and Mineral Resources Ali Al-Naimi stated that Saudi Arabia stands ready to immediately increase its crude oil production to 11 million barrels per day, and sustain that level to replace any market shortages resulting from the effects of Hurricane Katrina in order to stabilize world crude prices.

RELATED DOCUMENTS:
* Embassy News: Saudi Arabia ready to increase oil production as crude prices rise


No skin off their backs, man.  "We stand with you and are ready to sell you as much oil as you need!"

HA HA HA HA!!!!!!


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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted September 01, 2005 03:00 PM

Understand Scope and Depth

A lot of people don't understand. It's not simply because a hurricane came through with high winds and blew buildings over or flooded many parts of many cities. People don't understand it's all about the water. It's not the same as when a bathtub overflows and everything gets wet. People need to understand that the cities, which are flooded, aren't simply being flooded. A flood of this magnitude knocks out power, first and foremost. And that means no power and electricity to run the built-in safety measures running certain chemical-processing plants. This means many of these hazardous and deadly chemicals are mixing into the water that is covering the cities that are affected. It also means that some chemicals that weren't supposed to come in contact with each other may now do exactly that. Depending on the nature of some of these chemicals, explosions and fires can occur in the middle of a flood. Just think what would happen if a nuclear power plant were hit by this disaster. The consequences could be epic. Now remember that we are an oil-driven economy. Think about what happens when all the automobiles, gas stations, and other such carriers of petroleum products find themselves in a flood such as this. It means that many of these dangerous oils and gasolines will be added to the stagnant mixture of the floodwater permeating the city. And those oil-based substances won't mix directly into the water. They are nonsoluble. They'll float on the surface until coming into contact with something else like a person's clothing. Now add sewage that has backed up and overflowed. Take all of that human waste and automatically assume that it's a breeding ground for potentially deadly bacteria strains.

What does it all mean? It means the water is potentially harmful and poisonous to human life; possibly any life in general. And in the midst of it all are people. These are people who are surrounded by this poisonous water who don't have boats, clean drinking water, usable latrines, or protection from hot Gulf Coast sunlight beating down on their poor defenseless heads. They need our help.
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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted September 01, 2005 03:20 PM

As i heard in the news today, germany offered their help. Chancellor Schroeder said something about (don´t know how they are called in english, sorry) machines to "clean" water and make it drinkable again). There have also been connections between the american Red Cross and the german "Rotes Kreuz" about founding a donation account here in germany and send all the donation to the Red Cross. The news also said, that it seems to be impossible to send "man-help" coz of the difficult Visa-laws down there.
3 donation accounts of the "Rote Kreuz" are already named on tv this evening, and they pleased us to donate money, especially for the people in New Orleans and Biloxi.
For those of you who understand a bit german, here is the internet site of the german "Rotes Kreuz" with the named donation account.
I hope all the people in these affected regions will get back to "normal" life as soon as possible.
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SirDunco
SirDunco


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 01, 2005 03:38 PM

As far as I know the flooding of New Orleas took place due to a broken, or unfixed, flood dam in the vicity of the city.

For me it is not understandable how a costal city can be unprepared for a flood.
I heard it on the news that one of the dams couldn't withstand the water and colaped which caused the large flooding.

What Consis pointed out, the danger of the water mixing with chemicals and oils, is a great point. Eventhough the damage so far has been great, it could (and still can, but hopefully won't) increase.

We can only hope for the best and the succes of the rescue teams. Once the case is solved then the authorities should be questioned and the flood protection increased as to overcome future problems.
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted September 01, 2005 04:15 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 7 Sep 2005

Thanks Angelito!  We need all the help we can get right now.

Along the lines of Consis' post above, it's true that people aren't wrapping their heads around this yet.  That is in fact a total understatement.

Prepare yourself for one of the worst rants I've ever perpetrated on this Community.  But I know many of you will understand exactly why I am so upset once I explain.

I called my mom in a bit of a tizzy Sunday night and just botched to her for a while.  I was extremely frustrated because my husband and I had just had this little exchange.

(I'm sitting on the bed watching the news and chewing a pillow out of desperation)

(Him) What's wrong?

(Me) This is gonna be bad, man, this is gonna be awful.

(Him) Yeah, we're gonna lose at least a couple hundred people...

Suddenly all the rage I have built up during my lifeting toward the astonishing arrogance of American self-perceived impeccability, coupled with my building hysteria at the horror I knew was about to unfold, exploded back in my husband's face in an emotional projectile vomit.  Thus, the rant began:

A COUPLE HUNDRED!?!?!  Try ten thousand!  New Orleans is sitting eight feet below sea-level, the old levees around the lake are only designed for a category 3 hurricaine, and most of the lowest ground areas are in the poorest neighborhoods where people in one-story houses don't have the resources to leave!!!!  THEY'RE GONNA BE HACKING PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR ROOVES WITH AXES MAN!!! We've got half a dozen oil refineries, several off-shore rigs, a number of chemical plants and an entire city infrastructure that are about to get knocked out!!!!  Whaddaya think is gonna happen to all those people and all those chemicals when the !@#$%^ storm turns the place into soup!?!?!?!

My husband thought I was overreacting.  I was crying by this time.

Three days later he apologized for not taking me seriously.

I am absolutely awestruck that people are in shock over what is happening.  People -- especially Americans -- are so overly confident in, and overly dependent on, their extremely complex, overly fragile infrastucture that they have lost touch with reality and come to believe that the world is immutably what they have made it.  I have always gotten this impression and the general reaction (or lack thereof) to this event just confirms it.

What did they THINK was gonna happen, man?  The authorities have been talking for years about needing to upgrade the levees for this very reason.  New Orleans is a big bowl.  If you take a bowl and push it down in a vat of water, the bowl fills up.

This isn't rocket science.

And when you have hundreds of thousands of people and their houses and cars and life belongings and chemical plants and grocery stores full of food and hospitals full of sick people and gas stations full of gas and above-ground cemeteries full of above-ground graves and oil refineries full of oil and sewars full of sewage -- all down in the bowl, well -- SURPRISE!!!! THE PEOPLE CAN'T MOVE BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE BOATS, FOLKS.  THEY DROWN IN THEIR HOUSES BECAUSE THE HOUSES ARE ONLY ONE STORY HIGH AND THE LAKE LEVEL IS TWENTY FEET ABOVE GROUND LEVEL.

CAN YOU SAY DUHHHHH??????!?!?!?!?!?!

So What happens??? People turn into a mass of hungry, thirsty, totally freaked out, immobilized, desperate humanity -- if they lived -- and WHAT A SHOCK -- we have one million American regugees on our hands (That's on in every 280 of us guys) that are roaming around turning into not-so-noble savages.  Presto chango.

Oh yeah, I forgot.  Stuff like that doesn't happen in the U.S.  We're somehow above the laws of physics and social science.  It can't happen here because this is the U.S. and things like that don't happen here.

So anyway, I called my mom and told her we were about to face something on the order of 9-11, maybe worse, in terms of loss of life, and certainly many times worse than that in terms of infrastructural damage, economic impact and long-term effects on the country, not to mention having about only four days' worth of oil reserves (for our ten million totally unnecessary ******* SUV's)and over a tenth of our oil production coming from the very area that was literally about to go under.

Same reaction as my husband.

And the more I ranted at them both in my increasing anger and frustration, the more patronizing they became.

At about that point I gave up, withdrew into my own little world, and sat up all night just watching the news in desperation to see if I could literally WILL the hurricaine to avert New Orleans (kind-of like that feeling you get when you're watching a movie you've already seen and you still hope it ends differently than you know it does).

At one point I dozed off for a couple of hours.  When I woke up, the hurricaine had in fact veered a little to the east, bringing the least damaging side of the storm over New Orleans.  

But it wasn't enough.

The next day the levees gave in anyway.  And like a movie I'd already seen in my head, sure enough, there they were, on the rooves, hacking people out of their attics.  I have a friend, Wendell, down there, somewhere.  He was the nurse who took care of my husband when he had emergency surgery on his retina last year, when we were down there on a business trip.  He had it done at Ochsner Hospital, the one that was on the news several times in the last few days.  I have no idea where Wendell is or whether he got out, but he's not responding to my increasingly frantic e-mails.

I'd like to pull my hair out right now.

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest, guys.  And don't get me wrong.  I think that it is completely unreasonable to expect the American governmental infrastructure to be able to manage this level of armaggedon with some kind of finesse.  It's just as unrealistically arrogant to think one's government omnipotent as it is to think ourselves impervious to the same realities which afflict the rest of the world.
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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted September 01, 2005 04:31 PM

Interesting one. Whilst the states themselves certainly are not any better off than some third world countries, they are clearly better off than many. In such a disaster like this I presume also that national funds comes into play for rebuilding the states involved, therefore though the money in those states is minimal, the country as a whole is more than capable of shouldering the burden. Also America's infastructure is much better as a whole and much more capable of coping with such events than most third world countries would be.

Having said that however I'd see no problem with others assisting the operation or offering financial help, I just don't think the need for outside support is as great in this case as others. I am a member of an fundraising organisation called Lions Club International and I have no doubt this will come up at our next meeting.
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted September 01, 2005 04:38 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 1 Sep 2005

I tend to agree, PH.  We do have the largest debt in our history, but we still have the strongest economy in the world, and access to probably close to half the world's natural resources.  As compromised as our system is right now, we simply remain better equipped to pitch the lion's share of what it will take to recover the situation.  

The fact is that the thing we most need is to get those people to hell out of the city, and nobody else is any more capable of getting in there and getting them any more easily than we are.

Oh yeah, I forgot.  The next chapter in this mess:  widespread cholera and diahrrea.
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SirDunco
SirDunco


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 01, 2005 04:44 PM

Personaly what dissgusts me the most is the fact that it was allowed to happen.

Firstly, the commin of the Huricane was know a few day's if not weeks ahead and therefore an evacuation on a large scale should have been ordered. And it should have been take more seriously by the peoples of New Orleans.
For those without family to move to or finacial means to find a place to stay, provisional camps should have been set up as soon as possible by the Goverment via the Nation Guard.

If not, which didn't happen. The city should have been secured. The fact that it happened in a coutry which spend hundreds of billions of dollars for new weapon deveopement pre year, and can't protect it's major cities and it's citizens, is dissgusting.

And the fact that the flood dams wwere built for a much smaller scale flood is laughable. A weakly protected major coastal city in the Carribean where hurricanes are common is for me not understandable.

It was the goveremnt and the local authorities who have failed endangered the lives of their citizens...
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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted September 01, 2005 04:49 PM

This Is Important To Remember

Quote:
New Orleans is a big bowl. If you take a bowl and push it down in a vat of water, the bowl fills up.

Peacemaker,

I think there's a lot of people who don't understand this concept. One of those people is myself included. Some people may be thinking that the hurricane picked up water and simply deposited much of it on New Orleans. While that may be true, it doesn't explain the magnitude of this flood.

I think it would be very helpful for someone who knows a bit about this to please take the time to describe what a "Levee" is, how many there are surrounding New Orleans, and why they are being used. Then please try to explain what it means to have a "levee" engineered for a category-3 hurricane.

Oh and something else too: No one could have predicted this hurricane would do what it did. It is nobody's fault. It is certainly not the government's fault. All those global warming arguments may have some validation but no one could have predicted what this hurricane did. It's best if we not dwell on who's to blame and start focusing on how we can help those people regain their livelihoods.
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted September 01, 2005 04:57 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 1 Sep 2005

Hey there, Sir Dunco!!! Howya been???
Quote:
Personaly what dissgusts me the most is the fact that it was allowed to happen.

Firstly, the commin of the Huricane was know a few day's if not weeks ahead and therefore an evacuation on a large scale should have been ordered.
Actually the storm was a measly category one hurricaine, (not much more than a tropical storm) until it entered the Gulf of Mexico.  Not until less than 36 hours before it hit the coast did they upgrade the storm to a two, then a three, and evenutally to a level 5.  Such a storm has never hit the United States in all its history.  So people who've lived through so many of the prior ones believed they'd make it thorugh this one.

Also, the Mayor ordered mandatory evacuation two days before the hurricaine hit us, but hundreds of thousands of cars clogged the streets day and night pretty much until a few hours before the storm hit.  It's just that many people either refused to leave or were incapable of making travel arrangements because they were poor, and there were too many people in that situation for the government to control it in short order.

Quote:
And it should have been take more seriously by the peoples of New Orleans.
I absolutely agree.  Just so you understand the government was, in fact, doing so.
Quote:
For those without family to move to or finacial means to find a place to stay, provisional camps should have been set up as soon as possible by the Goverment via the Nation Guard.
This would have been good, but they did the best they could on such short order.  What they did was send everyone to the Superdome (a giant football field on the upper end of town).  Until today there were about twenty thousand people in there.  But not everyone could or would go.  That's the people who got trapped in their houses.

As of now they're taking all the people from the Superdome in New Orleans to the Astrodome in Houston, Texas.  From there, who know's what we'll do with them next.  Meantime, as the busses started coming to the Superdome, people from the whole city who were still alive got wind of it and everyone's started to descend on the Superdome to see if they can get on one of the busses.  So the crowd of twenty thousand there has now swelled to fifty thousand, with no food, no toilets, no drinking water and no medical care.  The real failure of the goverment has been in the last day during which they have failed to get those people food and water despite having them all in one place they can reach now.

Quote:
And the fact that the flood dams wwere built for a much smaller scale flood is laughable.
Yes, isn't it???  However -- this hurricaine was also of an unexpected and unprecedented order.  


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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted September 01, 2005 05:15 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 1 Sep 2005

Hey Consis!!!  We must have been posting at the same time.

If somebody can post a map of New Orleans (I dunno how to do stuff like that) then I will explain anything not clear on the map.

Basically though for now, a levee is a long earthen burm that sits on the edge of the water like a barrier to keep the water from flowing past the burm.  It's kind-of like an above-ground, above-water damn that is designed to keep unusually rising water levels behind it.  

The levees in New Orleans were reinforced with steel panels, but one of them weakened and gave way from the force of the water in Lake Ponchetrain (sp), which sits to the west of the city.  Lake Ponchetrain is already higher than lower New Orleans, which sits behind natual and man-made barriers, as low as eight feet below sea level in some spots.

Here's how it happened.  The hurricaine brought a huge tidal swell into Lake Ponchetrain (basically just pushing a huge amount of sea water up into the lake), and started raising its level far above average sea level.  The levees were high enough to contain the water, until the beating by the storm started compromising them in spots.  

Once the water started flowing over the spots they grew larger and larger.  There are several breaches into which the water poured -- one of them over three hundred feet long.  So the lake, swollen from the tidal wall that resulted from the hurricaine, simply drained its water into the city until they equalized.  And the hell of it is, this didn't all even begin until after the hurricaine had already passed over New Orleans.

The water is twenty feet deep in places now.  The authorities are reporting that it appears to be beginning to drain back out, but they'll have to pump most of it back over the levees.

It's my understanding that the rising and lowering tide will continue to directly impact the city until they can plug the leaks in the levees.

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SirDunco
SirDunco


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 01, 2005 05:18 PM

Quote:
Hey there, Sir Dunco!!! Howya been???
Quote:
Personaly what dissgusts me the most is the fact that it was allowed to happen.

Firstly, the commin of the Huricane was know a few day's if not weeks ahead and therefore an evacuation on a large scale should have been ordered.
Actually the storm was a measly category one hurricaine, (not much more than a tropical storm) until it entered the Gulf of Mexico.  Not until less than 36 hours before it hit the coast did they upgrade the storm to a two, then a three, and evenutally to a level 5.  Such a storm has never hit the United States in all its history.  So people who've lived through so many of the prior ones believed they'd make it thorugh this one.

Also, the Mayor ordered mandatory evacuation two days before the hurricaine hit us, but hundreds of thousands of cars clogged the streets day and night pretty much until a few hours before the storm hit.  It's just that many people either refused to leave or were incapable of making travel arrangements because they were poor, and there were too many people in that situation for the government to control it in short order.

Quote:
And it should have been take more seriously by the peoples of New Orleans.
I absolutely agree.  Just so you understand the government was, in fact, doing so.
Quote:
For those without family to move to or finacial means to find a place to stay, provisional camps should have been set up as soon as possible by the Goverment via the Nation Guard.
This would have been good, but they did the best they could on such short order.  What they did was send everyone to the Superdome (a giant football field on the upper end of town).  Until today there were about twenty thousand people in there.  But not everyone could or would go.  That's the people who got trapped in their houses.

As of now they're taking all the people from the Superdome in New Orleans to the Astrodome in Houston, Texas.  From there, who know's what we'll do with them next.  Meantime, as the busses started coming to the Superdome, people from the whole city who were still alive got wind of it and everyone's started to descend on the Superdome to see if they can get on one of the busses.  So the crowd of twenty thousand there has now swelled to fifty thousand, with no food, no toilets, no drinking water and no medical care.  The real failure of the goverment has been in the last day during which they have failed to get those people food and water despite having them all in one place they can reach now.

Quote:
And the fact that the flood dams wwere built for a much smaller scale flood is laughable.
Yes, isn't it???  However -- this hurricaine was also of an unexpected and unprecedented order.  




I've been great, thanks to the holiday and thanks to life ...

Well since i don't live in the US anymore I don't have such a inside view on current happenings, so all i know comes from what i know from the news.
I heard that the comming of the storm was announced a couple of days ahead and so was the fact that it was headed for New Orléans.
I've been to the city and known it's set up on the coast.
Sure it was announced as a smaller storm, but since it's power was inceasing by every hour that it was reaching the storm, the whole situation was underestimated. It was the worst hurricane ever to hit US soil, but even if it wasn't i think it still would have been underestimated.

It still is just my humble view from accros the pond. I hope for the best outcome of this tragic sittuation, for all those suffering.  
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2XtremeToTake
2XtremeToTake


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 01, 2005 05:31 PM

Hey guys...

I just got my power back. I live in Mobile, Alabama which is right on the gulf. We got hit pretty hard, but nothing more than an inconvience here. Most people lost power around here for a few days, and its alot of mess to clean up.

Louisana and Mississippi were hit really hard though. The local news was in New Orleans and it looks like a war zone there. Biloxi and New Orleans have lost all sense of humanity. Its become a struggle for survival there. The police aren't keeping order. In fact, they are causing more riots. The police are looting stores to get their needs, but they aren't allowing the regular citizens to do it. other people have resorted to literally camping on the interstate.

And to the retard who said Mississippi and Alabama are the poorest states in the US, go read a book or something. Mississippi and Alabama are around the middle. The midwestern states (Wyoming, Colorodo, Dakotas, etc.) are the poorest. Alabama actually has better living conditions than the other 3 states i have lived in (California, Pennsylvania, and Georgia) The school system here is wonderful compared to that of CA and PA. Very low crime rate, etc. ]


Im shocked though that no one went " omg 2Xtreme lived in that area is he alright?!!?!?!? I miss him!!! Nooo!!!"

no one cares about me...lol

Aanyways, those 3 nights of no AC were hell to sleep in...ugh...but im back now!
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