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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: 2-hex attack rules, final
Thread: 2-hex attack rules, final
rainalcar
rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted October 09, 2005 06:13 PM bonus applied.
Edited By: rainalcar on 13 Oct 2005

2-hex attack rules, final

I already posted a picture that showed in which situations can the 2-hex attack of dragons/phoenixes be utilized for the gain of the player who possesses these cretaures in his army;
i'll repost it first, and add to it a new picture which shows how and when can the opponent's 2-hex be used against his own unit standing 1 hex away from it.



The meaning of the first picture is:

the light green and dark green areas are enemy units, either 1 or 2 hexes wide.

The red arrow signifies the exact direction and place from which the breath attack will hit BOTH enemy units. If there is no red arrow, then from these directions the second creature won't be hit.

You can see that in some cases the breath attack WILL NOT hit the second unit even if it logicaly should: this can especialy be seen at the situation in the second row/first column, where one vertical arrow is missing: this means, if you accidently DO NOT attack diagonaly, the double firebreath won't work.

Try also comparing the situation in first row/column, with third row/second column: you'll notice a huge difference in your firebreath possibilities .

Why is this important? Simple, because sometimes some directions are blocked by obstacles or units, and you should know every possible way to utilize the potential of firebreath attack and use it best to your advantage. Sometimes you can even plan to lure your opponent to open this possiblity for you (because, as far as i have noticed, not to many people are aware of this, at least they don't know everything).
And I've sometimes managed to kill off some majorly important stacks using this info, which helped me win some fights, so...



The second picture is a bit more complicated.

As you can see, the red 2-hex areas are OPPONENT'S dragons or phoenixes. The green hexes are OPPONENT'S units, either 1 or 2-hex wide.

The most important thing to know when you want to use opponent's firebreath attack against his own unit is that the rules ARE NOT THE SAME if you do it with 1-hex or 2-hexes wide unit.

So this is why there are two types of arrows here:
the blue ones signifies the attack of your 2-HEX unit against opponent's dragons (phoenixes) WHICH WILL CAUSE THE RETALIATION TO HIT THE TROOP BEHIND YOURS (and this should be opponent's troop naturaly, LOL).

The violet arrow works the same: it signifies the place and direction of the attack of your 1-HEX unit WHICH WILL CAUSE THE RETALIATION OF THE DRAGONS (PHOENIXES) TO HIT THE OPPONENT'S OWN TROOP AS WELL.

Ofcourse, if you try to do this from directions which are not included in this picture (not marked by arrows) your attempt will FAIL.

Good luck!

Added:
-you can see that it in two pictures it is no AT ALL possible to cause a double firebreath attack.
-If you are an attacker (left side) and if opponent's units are on their baseline, you CANNOT cause a double firebreath attack using a 2-HEX unit, only with a 1-hex unit (you will see that you can't attack with a required arrow).

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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted October 09, 2005 09:40 PM

Wow.  you have a lot of free time, but thankyou.
____________
How exactly is luck a skill?

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rainalcar
rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted October 09, 2005 10:37 PM

all in total took me a bit more than 1h. That i can spare. Besides, i found so much great info here, this is just my small contribution.

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted October 13, 2005 03:06 PM

This is actually very usefull info. You can look this up in the middle of a crucial battle if you cant remember exactly how it works and who can?
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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Russ
Russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted October 13, 2005 07:02 PM

I guess I should start looking for a color printer That deserved to be printed and to have its place in my sight while I play heroes. Btw, unless you are a hardcore vet who has all of this memorized, here are some other useful things to keep in sight while playing:
1) Exact numbers of creatures in crypts, treasuries, etc and the rewards for killing them.
2) Creature speeds/stats/alignment table - this is very useful when deciding what to fight, because you don't want to attack grand elves with your beths just to find out that they move first once it is too late.
3) Hero movement points (based on the slowest creature) and other speed bonuses/penalties like roads, stables, fountains, swamps, etc.
4) Spells, spell schools, levels, mana and the EXACT spell effects.
i.e.
1-st level:
magic arrow = 5 mana. all schools. 10 + 10 * spellpower damage. basic: 4 mana. adv: +10 dmg, exp: +20 dmg
...
4-th level:
fire shield = ... mana. fire school. 15% dmg reflected. basic: ... mana. adv: 30% dmg reflected. exp: nothing
5) Heroes' starting spells (extremely useful when you REALLY need to get haste, slow, or other spell)

PS: When you are playing someone, use the time between turns to plan your next move and look at those tables if you need it. Do not waste time doing it during your turn.
PPS: remind me to print this info sometime, as I keep forgetting to do it

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted October 13, 2005 09:27 PM

Gave red star for Rainalcar. Good and usefull table. Keep it on.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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rainalcar
rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted June 05, 2006 07:44 PM

I haven't been on the forum for so long, and I haven't even seen this Thanks Angelito.
____________

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted June 06, 2006 05:31 PM
Edited by Ecoris at 13:22, 07 Jun 2006.

This thread is not included in the ToC (which it definetely deserves to be), therefore I read it for the first time today and I must say that the results are very useful. However nobody can remember all those configurations so I looked closer at them to see if their was a simpler way to express the results.

As your intuition would tell you any of the above images could be reflected along a horizontal axis like this:



They're actually the same; we don't have to remeber both.

Another aspect is the direction of the attack. If the direction of the attack is changed, all comfigurations should be reflected along a vertical axis. This is necessary if you're the defender or if your dragon/phoenix is moving "backwards", i.e. ends up facing left.

The following configuration caught my attention:



"H" denotes the dragon's head, i.e. it's facing left. Notice the arrow I drew a circle around. Will the dragon hit the green unit as the image suggests? No it won't.:



This is the same configuration. If any unit occupied the hex just above the champion it would be hit if the champion attacked.
The arrows on the mentioned configuration should have been like 4th row, 1st column, or the horizontally flipped configuration in 1st row 3rd column (the size of the green creature is not important).

I haven't found any other errors, but as I mentioned I wanted to see if the many diagrams above could be "boiled down". Since Rainalcar did not copyright his images I've used them.

The first thing to answer is: Which hexes will the two-hex attack affect? The image below shows this.



Green arrows indicate that the dragon will turn around when it attacks/retaliates in the given direction. Otherwise the dragon won't turn around. No other attack directions are possible without moving the dragon.
There is one exception: If the dragon attacks a two hex creature in the directions "2" or "8" (like the numpad) which also occupoies one of the hexes marked with an "X" it will instead attack in the directions "3" or "9" respectively. This describes the unlogocal behaviour displayed in in 2nd row, 1st and 2nd column in rainalcar's first pic.

The next one shows how a dragon will retaliate depending on the direction and hex from which it is attacked:



Again green arrows indicate that the dragon will turn around.
There is however one special case that cannot be treated like this. It is shown below:



The attacker attacks the dragon along the green arrow. If it's a two-hex unit it will also occupy the hex marked with an "X". In that case the dragon will retaliate along the blue arrow. If the attacker is a one-hex unit it will retaliate along the purple arrow (since the direction of the blue arrow would be absurd).

The configurations where the attacker is placed below the dragon or the dragon is facing right are of course the same, just flip the above images accordingly.

I hope this makes it easier to remember. Just keep in mind which hexes a dragon hits and wether or not it will turn around. This is actually a bit tricky: It may fly backwards a little without turning around...

EDIT: I forgot to mention the "bug" displayed below:



I added the blue and pink arrows. Attacking along the blue arrow will not hit the dark green creature which is quite odd at first glance. Actually the two hex breath attack follows the pink arrow. This ONLY happens if the creature attacked is a two hex unit as one can see below:



The dragon will hit the marksman on the left pic, not the minotaur. On the right pic it will only hit the marksman. If any unit was standing in front of the crusader it would be hit as well.

I have updated the rules described in my original post. I think they cover all situations now. If not, let me know.
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Rainalcar
Rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted June 06, 2006 10:29 PM

Hi Ecoris,
just wanted to say thank you for giving me the opportunity to run heroes for the first time in the past year or so

You are quite correct of my mistake, good observing.
____________

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted June 07, 2006 12:31 PM

Quote:
Hi Ecoris,
just wanted to say thank you for giving me the opportunity to run heroes for the first time in the past year or so

? Did I? I'm not sure I know what you mean.

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rainalcar
rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted June 07, 2006 03:02 PM

lol, because of your answer I ran heroes again after a very long time and saw the gold and black dragons for the first time in a very long time That's what I meant.
____________

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted June 07, 2006 03:21 PM

Personally I don't think I'll ever get tired of playing H3 for more than a few months as long as I've got time to play it.

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russ
russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted June 07, 2006 05:00 PM
Edited by russ at 17:06, 07 Jun 2006.

Can it be summarized into: "the dragon will breath from its head towards the attacker when attacked by a 1-hex unit"? That sounds very simple and makes a lot of sense (assuming that the dragon doesn't firebreath from its ass ).
In case of 2-hex creatures, the dragon seems to be firebreathing towards the head (i.e. the front part) of the other 2-hex creature. Can someone verify this?

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted June 07, 2006 05:04 PM
Edited by Ecoris at 17:31, 07 Jun 2006.

1 hex units: Yes, that is what my image shows.

2 hex units: You mean when they retaliate or when you make "vertical" attacks (directions 2 and 8)?
Take a look at this one:


This one actually hits the back of the griffin and kills the marksman as well.

Retaliation: The size of the attacking creature has no effect of how the dragon retaliates. EXCEPT in this situation:


Blue arrow if attacker is two-hex, purple if its a one-hex creature. Again the back of the two-hex creature.
It can be expressed as follows: Attacks (and retaliations) with direction "2" or "8" will, if possible, become diagonal attacks instead (e.g. "3" or "9") targeting the same creature of course.

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sag
sag


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted December 20, 2006 03:23 PM

LOL. Angelito, you must reward Russ for good joke! I just imagined this dragon

Is there any thread "Best jokes"?

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