|
| Thread: Proof that Noas Ark really existed ? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
|
DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
|
posted January 11, 2006 09:59 PM |
|
|
Proof that Noas Ark really existed ?
Yes a book has been released based on the findings of Ron Wyatt who discovered a boat shaped object on Mt. Ararat the exact location that the bible gives as the Ark's resting place. Discovered only after an earthquake.
Here is a link.
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-05.htm
This is the section that especially caught my eye.
"The earthquake had also cracked the object from "stem to stern" and Ron was able to take samples from deep within.
Samples of material outside of the object were also taken for comparison.
Ron measured the object finding it to be 515 feet long. 512 feet, plus 3 feet, the length of a section that had broken off.
Note:
300 Royal Egyptian cubits = 515 feet. The unit of measurement that Moses, who wrote the Book of Genesis, would have been familiar with was the Royal Egyptian Cubit. This is the same unit of measurement used in the construction of the Great Pyramid in Egypt. This cubit was employed until at least the time of King Solomon as gates constructed by him, in Israel, are based on this unit of measurement"
Until reading this i had not realised that a cubit was an internatial unit of exact measurement.
I assumed that from elbow to finger tips could vary according to the size of a particular builder.
whether or not a particular Egyption Royal was used to make this measurement i do not know but Its name suggests so.
____________
Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
|
|
DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
|
|
posted January 11, 2006 10:12 PM |
|
|
Sorry i slightly misquoted.
the object was found in the mountains of Ar'a-rat and not
Mt. Ar'a-rat itself.
Well checking my translation Genesis 8:16 say's that the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ar'a-rat.
Which is where the object was found.
____________
Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
|
|
dkolb
Promising
Known Hero
Nay Nay and Aslan Protector
|
|
posted January 11, 2006 10:26 PM |
|
|
hmm interesting.
It would be awesome if he really found it, but I'm a little skeptical because he says he found the Ark of the Covenant but he didn't show any proof.
|
|
DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
|
|
posted January 11, 2006 10:49 PM |
|
|
Yes and also an object that small could be a number of things, whereas something boat shaped 515 feet long could not.
The account of how Noah built the Ark is very detailed in Genesis, right down to what kind of timber was used, so the archaeologists have many points of refference to validate this finding.
I need to read the book.
____________
Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
|
|
privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
|
|
posted January 11, 2006 11:45 PM |
|
|
Let us start with a disclaimer I'm a sceptic by nature so...
1) I want someone not obsessed with the Ark and "getting people into heaven" to investigate it, it seems remarkably convinient that it's exactly the right size to me.
2) Whilst it's likely the Royal cubit is the one referred to it's by no means certain for the author of the flood tale is not certain either. The Egyptians had a Royal and "normal" cubit. Using the normal cubit it could vary between 430 and 550 feet. Using a Sumerian cubit it could be 517 or so feet long.
3) I strongly suspect the Turks were thinking of all those gullable tourists they could draw in when they declared it to be Noah's Ark.
4) I don't trust scientists that prove their theories with quotes from the bible. I equally mistrust anyone who sets out with a particular goal in mind. They tend to fit the facts to their goal rather than let the facts tell them the real story. Ron Wyatt's seems to have been to prove biblical stories such as this one.
____________
We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
|
|
DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
|
|
posted January 12, 2006 12:14 AM |
|
|
Yes i agree that setting out with a particular goal is unscientific. You would agree then that it would be just as bad for somebody to set out to prove that it was not the Ark mentioned in the bible?
BTW. PH for info on the normal cubit. I am wandering actually. Wouldn't the flood have been before the Egyptian empire. It seems unlikely to me that the Egyptians would have been responsible for creating an international unit before they were an empire.
____________
Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted January 12, 2006 05:36 AM |
|
|
I Believe
I think it's true. But still, many people try to say this evidence would prove beyond a shadow of doubt that the bible is God's word. I think those people will say anything though. It would also support the tale of the "Tower of Babel" which (I'm told) was built to withstand an epic flood. Perhaps they were Noah's descendents; perhaps not. I don't know. I'm not even sure it was the tower of Babel. I think it was tower of Babel. It also might have been some other Mesopotamian building.
Also, if it truly is the Arc of Noah then my first question would be:
~What is its makeup and pattern of construction?
I've always personally believed that humans have been around with significantly relative advanced technology for much longer than the bible claims.
____________
Roses Are Red And So Am I
|
|
DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
|
|
posted January 12, 2006 06:02 AM |
|
|
Yes Consis i have also read that the tower of Babel was built to eithstand a great flood.
Josephus wrote that it was an act of defiance and that the builders used bitumen to seal and waterproof the building to withstand further flooding.
Of course being around in the 1st century he was not an eye witness so i dont know how this was passed down to him.
About civilizations being technologically advanced, the bible indicates that they were and that the destruction of babel an the confusing its languages was what halted this "progress".
Genesis 11:6 says
"After that Jehovah said: Look! They are one people and there is one language for them all, and this is what they start to do. Why, now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be unattainable for them."
New World Translation
This passage is paricularly interesting in light of the fact that we as a civilization have with modern communication technology become as a people with one language. In effect reversing the this halting that took place all those centuries ago.
I firmly believe that if Jehovah had not done this that man could have been on the moon 2000 years ago instead of now.
No doubt at all they were advancing in technology with the same rapidness that we are now though not necessarily in the same direction.
____________
Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
|
|
privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
|
|
posted January 12, 2006 09:14 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Yes i agree that setting out with a particular goal is unscientific. You would agree then that it would be just as bad for somebody to set out to prove that it was not the Ark mentioned in the bible?
Yes I would. The object certainly could be a large ship of some sort and whichever cubit the writer refers to it could still have been as long as or close to the object's size. What puts me off that guy is that he goes looking for the Ark rather than investigating the object for what it could be.
Rather reminds me of Schlieman, digs down all that way (destroying more modern archeology on the way with little regard for noting it) but instead of looking for the supposed Trojan era by dating evidence he just carried on until he found what he fought was the treasures of Troy. More modern research thinks he missed the Trojan war period by a few centuries, digging right through it to an older period of the city's history.
Quote:
BTW. PH for info on the normal cubit. I am wandering actually. Wouldn't the flood have been before the Egyptian empire. It seems unlikely to me that the Egyptians would have been responsible for creating an international unit before they were an empire.
Well yes but this doesn't mean it's impossible for Moses to use the unit when referring to the Ark as the meaurement was normal to his time period.
A modern day example is this. In the 19th century the British used only what we call "Imperial" measurements, i.e. feet and inches. Today in Britain we use both Imperial and Metric measurements. Now if I was talking about the Great Eastern ship to a German I'd probably say it was 211 metres long. I would use that measurement because it is more likely the German will understand metric, even though Metric wasn't in use in England at the time and wouldn't be for more than a century.
Basically as long as the cubit measurement was current to the person writing the account then it doesn't have to be to those who built the Ark.
____________
We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted January 12, 2006 03:45 PM |
|
Edited by Consis on 12 Jan 2006
|
Schlieman?
I really hate that guy. I really do. He's an idiot. I think he was merely looking for gold and other such treasures. I do not consider him an archeologist of any real merit or significance.
____________
Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
|
|
ratmonky
Famous Hero
Abu Hur Ibn Rashka
|
|
posted January 12, 2006 05:59 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Sorry i slightly misquoted.
the object was found in the mountains of Ar'a-rat and not
Mt. Ar'a-rat itself.
Well checking my translation Genesis 8:16 say's that the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ar'a-rat.
Which is where the object was found.
actually "the mountains of Ararat" can be interpreted in two ways:
1. the ark rested on Ararat or Lesser Ararat
2. the ark rested on any mountain of the (Kingdom of) Ararat. The Ancient Kingdom of Urartu that existed about 3000 years ago in Eastern Anatolia and Armenia was called the Kingdom of Ararat in the Bible. So any mountain in this region may hold the remains of Noah's Ark under it's snows.
____________
Dies illa, dies irae,
Calamitatis et miseriae.
Requiem aeternum
Dona eis, dona eis Domine.
|
|
DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
|
|
posted January 13, 2006 03:27 AM |
|
|
Ok lets forget Noahs Ark for a moment and ask the question. "Did a global flood really occur"
ANALYSIS FROM OVER 200 CULTURES RECORDING FLOOD LEGENDS:
1: 95% talked about a universal flood.
2: 88% repoted a favoured family.
3: 73% said that animals played a part.
4: 70% said that people survived due to a boat.
5: 67% said that animals were saved.
6: 66% said that mans wickedness was the cause.
7: 57% reported that the survivors ended up on a mountain.
I think there is enough here to show that it is not just a myth. 272 cultures in all from around the globe.
____________
Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
|
|
privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
|
|
posted January 13, 2006 05:12 AM |
|
|
*cynical hat on*
1) Naturally they would, most communities in the past lived near to major rivers, many of whom were prone to violent and devastating floods. Many communities would also have lived close to the sea where nature would enact her wrath every so often. See 2) below for the "universal" part.
2) Naturally one or two families would survive any natural disaster. In a time when communities were mostly rural, scattered and isolated it's no suprise that the one or two survivors from a town or region would believe themselves to be the sole survivors. However assuming they were then wouldn't that leave a very very small gene pool?
3) Most humans owned animals, animals kept you alive, if you wanted to survive that cow is more valuble to you than anything else!
4) Those more likely to survive a flooding from rivers would be those with boats to ride out the flood, fishermen, traders and so on.
5) See 3) the family's life would depend on the cow/sheep/chicken, you made damn sure it lived if you wanted to as well
6) I'm shocked that's not higher, virtually every problem man has ever seen has usually been blamed on our wicked nature. Since most flood myths are religious in nature it is also not suprising to see this as religion tends to use such as morality tales (or if you prefer scare stories to make people behave).
7) As an alternative to those that survived due to owning boats those living on high ground or able to reach it would be more likely to survive a flood.
It seems like amazing co-incidence whereas really it's just a co-incidence we should not be suprised at. Most cultures will have suffered a major flood in their past but it's not evidence of a flood that covered the globe during mankind's recorded memory. Take the Tsunami recently. If that had happened in ancient times not only would the loss of life been much higher the few survivors (especially those on Islands) would have been convinced they were the only humans left on the planet. People weren't likely to travel enormous distances either to find out.
____________
We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
|
|
DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
|
|
posted January 13, 2006 08:17 AM |
|
|
Are you playing Devil's advocate here or do you utterly reject the idea of a global flood?
____________
Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
|
|
privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
|
|
posted January 13, 2006 10:15 AM |
|
|
I strongly suspect there has not been a global flood at any point in recordable history. There's probably been a lot of similar events in the very distant past though, i.e. pre-history.
____________
We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
|
|
Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
|
|
posted January 13, 2006 12:56 PM |
|
|
hmmm...
will have to agree with privatehudson here... never did buy the bible stuff at face value anyway...
EDIT: shame on you, Wiseman... the Fairy was pretty open when she helped me look for Bigfoot
____________
You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
|
|
Wiseman
Known Hero
|
|
posted January 13, 2006 01:24 PM |
|
|
Well there it is... if that`s not definite proof I don`t know what is. I`ll just hop along now and tell the good news to Easter Bunny, I`m sure he`ll be delighted to hear it. I suspect Tooth Fairy won`t be so easily convinced though, she`s always had that mean sceptical air about her...
____________
Truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.
|
|
dkolb
Promising
Known Hero
Nay Nay and Aslan Protector
|
|
posted January 14, 2006 05:11 AM |
|
|
I'm a christian but even I don't know whether I can truly believe this or not. I think I would have heard this on the news more. I don't know how credible this guy is. Other people should examine this and express thier opinions.
But I really don't believe they found the Ark of the Covenant.
Regardless of whether it is true it should be noted that finding the ark does not prove that Christianity is true. Jews and Muslims if I recall also believe in the same flood story. (perhaps with some variation)
|
|
DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
|
|
posted January 14, 2006 09:56 AM |
|
|
Yes I agree that we dont need it to be the Ark. For me there is enough evidence of a global flood to have faith, coupled with the fact that i believe the bible to be the inspired word of God.
I just thought it would make an interesting topic, plus from time to time i like to guage what people are feeling about bible history. My conclusion is that the further man progresses, the more inclined he is to believe bible stories to be superstition and myth.
This is the second forum this week that i have made a thread in a forum on the subject and i have yet to hear from one person who believes in a global flood.
____________
Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
|
|
privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
|
|
posted January 14, 2006 10:30 AM |
|
|
Quote:
This is the second forum this week that i have made a thread in a forum on the subject and i have yet to hear from one person who believes in a global flood.
That's probably because in recorded memory there's no proof of one I guess.
____________
We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
|
|
|
|
