|
| Thread: This is getting frustrating |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
|
posted March 02, 2006 09:40 PM |
|
|
Well, guys, I'd be glad to see a combination of what Angelito proposed here AND Cpcos, for as long as BOTH players want the same rules why don't let them have it and play by them? If I play you Angelito, for example, we can agree on only DD/Fly/carto/diplo, if I play Cpcos we can add no dwell/cons/hive (right Cos?  ), then when I play "X" we can have all the no rr/hr/hf... +5/etc. And yes, I had several situations with a player (both me and opponent) having a huge area with 1-2 Topes, cons/dwells/hives plenty of resources and the other getting a tiny area with almost nothing in it. Well, those cases are not balanced even with the no dwells/cons/hives rule, for the poor player can't build due to lack of resources and almost for sure cannot grow a decent hero to break with. So I'd say luck of the draw is ON no matter what rules you fix before the game, so why not allow each to have theirs?
Surely, there's always the CHESS choice instead... 
____________
Your worst enemy is... yourself.
|
|
rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted March 03, 2006 02:15 AM |
|
|
Gaby, this has been a topic time and time again...ToH doesnt support player made rules. If a player breaks one, ToH has no comeback. Most of the time this is a question of honor anyway.
Nor should it either...90% of rules are pedantic anyway. Most players play with their rules and play within them with no problems...if there is an issue, its usually the character of the player that is the problem.
Players now play ridiculously unbalanced maps anyway, to enforce rules on them would make it extremely annoying and difficult for the Admin of ToH. ToH has been the same for all the years I've known it (jeez, about 7 now). It wont change, nor should it as it is the best tourney site out there. Always has been.
|
|
LichKing
Honorable
Known Hero
|
|
posted March 06, 2006 03:21 PM |
|
|
An email I just received
Hello LichKing,
I play [[name edited]] this Jebus template with following rules: no lvl 5 spells, no log born or lvl 4 spell hero, only 1 cons and 1 of 6-7 lvl dwell each allowed, or 2 lvl 6 dwells if no lvl 7. Anyway, all went ok till the end, when [[name edited]] got mad because Monere is "born log" hero. I thought only Gunnar, Dessa and Kyrre are the so-called "log born" heroes. This because several people played with Pyre against me and I thought everything is ok, as far as they are not log specialists. So now I'm really confused about it. I don't want to report the win if I made a mistake without knowing the exact meaning of "log born hero". For me both seem plausible: 1. literally speaking, born with logistics means having it at start (lvl 1); 2. from the logical point of view, log specialists have a significant advantage, first because they grow it to expert after 2 levels and at lvl 20 they double the bonus to 60% in movement points, so only these are due to be forbidden. So please tell me which one of the two is the actual meaning of "log born hero"?
I also attach my last save in the day before the final fight (I did not save right before fight). Next day he came towards my capital, I bought troops day 1 and attacked him, then, after some debating with [[name edited]], he left without moving a creature saying "gg" (my Red Orb was the main reason). If I am wrong, I apologize for not making sure I know the rules right, but if I'm right I am ought to have the win reported. I just want to make sure everything is solved with maturity and honor.
Thank you!
P.S. Coincidence is I had a logistics Hut close to my capital and that Monere had still basic logistics when at level 9.
P.S.S. I also attach here saves from day 1, day 2 (when Monere arose in Tavern), and the day showing Monere with basic log when level 9.
Dammit, People, how many times must we revisit this same old scenario? Folks, I've heard it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and I'm to the point where now when I see it I want to rip my eyeballs out of their sockets.
Don't--this means DO NOT--send me any kind of dispute or request for advice in a ToH game that has anything to do with rules. I swear, I'm almost ready to start booting people for it.
There is absolutely no way we can make fair rulings on cases involving player made rules, and this letter is a perfect example of why.
GABY: If you feel you earned your win and you didn't 'cheat' then by all means report. I will see that you get credit for this game. I'm tired of discussing 'Rules'.
I get, and have gotten for the past 4 years , at least 2-3 emails like this a week. I'm sick to my stomach of saying the same thing, in email after email, zone chat after zone chat, and hc post after hc post. I sometimes think Goldfish have a longer attention/memory span than some of our players!!!!
Gimme a freakin break..........
|
|
maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted March 06, 2006 04:04 PM |
|
|
Well i dont understand why toh cant explain the most simple rules to players who aparently dont know better, but thats your decicion offcourse.
No log born hero means you cannot use a hero who starts with log as your main hero. So Monere is banned. No log specs means you cant use a hero with log specialty as main.
About the red orb thing. Unless you mention that red orb is not allowed its allowed. If you were talking about red rush which makes more sense, this means that red is not allowed to use new troops to attack blue day 1.
If I was you I would call it a no game since you broke (at least) 1 rule. I dont think you should report a loss since it was obviously a misunderstanding.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
|
|
GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
|
|
posted March 06, 2006 11:55 PM |
|
|
Thanks for your helpful explanations, Maretti. When my opponent told me Monere is a log born hero it clicked to me in my mind it makes sence. But since I never had such a dispute before and nobody explained me exactly what that rule means (I allowed Pyre to my opponents 3-4 times - under the "no log born hero", of course - with no questioning about it). And only because I was told about the rule both ways when asking players on GameSpy I decided to write you, LichKing. I apologize for not knowing you got that dispute so many times, and please believe me I was not planning to step onto your toes. And of course I made no report since I felt then 50% sure I broke the rule agreed. Of course I cannot expect opponents remind me the rules, for they give me credit for my apprehension and respecting of them. I am ashamed not to know this rule exactly after all the games I've played applying it. And I apologize to my opponent for being misinformed (and maybe stupid ). Now I dare promiss you that I won't ever forget the meaning of "log born" hero!
P.S. (to Maretti) The Red Orb was not banned and I did not broke any other rule agreed. The reason for his quick exit was his hero: Malekith (had expert Resurrection).
Edit: Damn typos again!
____________
Your worst enemy is... yourself.
|
|
william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
|
|
posted March 07, 2006 10:25 AM |
|
|
Quote:
My name is Pengu and I've played for some time on toh and really liked the challenge.
But I took a few month off and now when I try to play anyone, especially with high ranking it becomes ridicolus. My last 3 games:
Me vs Eagle eye76.
We played jebus template cause he wanted to.
We took random towns cause he wanted to.
I obliged. He got stronghold and me Dungeon.
Then in the 3rd week he needs to go so we save the game.
After 1-2 weeks I ask if we can contniue the game.
We load the game and right away he expresses his discontent and wants to start a new game.
After grudingly accepting to continue we go on until the end. I find him in in the middle my hero and army outmatching his. He tries to reach an artifact
out of desperation and can't reach it. Then in the next turn i can catch up tp him. I take the artifact and attack. He says he doesn't need to report cause I cheated. And then he pulls the worst excuse i've heard in a while: Only he can take the artifact cause I muct kill the guard. That is just laughable. Not only that but I would had won easily anyway. Just pulls a pathetic excuse so he won't loose his leagionare status.
Me vs spawn112.
It takes 5 days then he leaves.
He created the random map. he choose the 2 min turns.
Then day 5 he says I'm way too slow having 3 fights in one day and my turn took over 5 min...
So he leaves. I check the save afterwards and what do I see? He had suicided with his main hero and didn't tell
cause he might had to report a loss.
Not that it mattered but I'd probably offered him a replay anyway.
Me vs Abstractedman.
This one last 1 day. We start a random game.
He wants to start with Ivor so I let him start with Ivor.
The game starts and 1 min into the game he leaves.
I save and goes and check the save. And I see that ivor got no elves at the start. So he left in danger of losing and having to report a loss.
Just 3 examples why toh is becoming so frustrating.
It used to be fun... 
That is just dispicable, firstly you should be able to play a fair, clean game without the person you are plying with complaining that you cant get an artifact just so he
can win, those kinds of people in my opinion should play unless they play fair and square.
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted March 07, 2006 06:16 PM |
|
|
New rule no haste or slow in final battle .
By the way I am sending you an email right now lich
|
|
Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
|
|
posted March 07, 2006 11:10 PM |
|
|
Gaby - it is OBVIOUSLY that the guy you've played said that to avoid reporting a loss. I find it hard to belive that he did not look in the tavern ONCE during the game to see that Monere is your main. He knew about it, yet he never said a word. It is a little trick that some people use. If he wins - he gets a win, if you win - he avoids a loss, or even requests that you report a loss. It is a win-win situation for him. This trick is very old and extremely lame, I think the first time I saw it was back in the kindergarden.
I think the HC should enforce a win as well as giving the other player some penalty (i.e. bad honor or smth) for acting so lame.
Also, on the side note - don't play people with too many rules. That is often a sign that they are afraid to lose and that they'll do anything to avoid a loss.
|
|
GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
|
|
posted March 07, 2006 11:38 PM |
|
|
After all, Russ, I think you are right here. So maybe I should change my mind and go report a win, only I don't want him to mess up my honor because of our little argument. My opponent answered to my excuses by saying he only had a problem with my attitude towards the end when I asked him (politely) not to waste my time by delaying picking up levels (after a scout fight he took almost half a minute to decide on a skill), knowing my time went off before moving all my heroes a few times before. It's true my turns got longer and longer as I broke the center and he made it clear he's the one who should complain about delays (as if his turns were any shorter, starting with day 1, when already taking crypts). He also said he noticed Monere starting from week 2 and assured me if he had a problem with it he would have told me then, so...
I am also tired of these frustrating situations and will be better to play only the 20-25 people I know well and trust. Even if just for the fun of it...
____________
Your worst enemy is... yourself.
|
|
morgan_le_fey
Famous Hero
|
|
posted March 11, 2006 02:25 AM |
|
|
As far as the 2 games where saves were looked at by Pengu, wasnt a guy named ugly wolf kicked out of TOH for looking at a save after he asked TOH to review a game?
le fey
|
|
LichKing
Honorable
Known Hero
|
|
posted March 11, 2006 07:18 AM |
|
|
No
Looking at saves was only one of the reasons why Woolf was booted.
If you don't know (or don't want to mention) all the details about a situation then please don't bring it up.
This isn't going to be a 'what about this time / that time' type of thread where older HC rulings are scrutinized.
Find something else to entertain yourself with
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted March 11, 2006 08:35 AM |
|
|
Hehe Ugly Woolf, the war of the BG's who sided with him.
Def a crazy month when he went crazy with his mouth.
Like Lich said well keep it private.
Sure did bring memories lol.
|
|
morgan_le_fey
Famous Hero
|
|
posted March 12, 2006 05:19 AM |
|
|
|
you mean there was more? haha....as for fun....well....
|
|
bobbyohms
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted March 15, 2006 04:57 PM |
|
|
What the heck... my 2 cents
I figured I'd say a couple things after reading through this thread...
First off it would seem to me that what might solve a lot of problems is if you could add some info to your profile page. When I would see a guy on the Zone looking for a game that I didn't know, I would always go to ToH, look up the person and see what maps and players the person has played. You can tell a lot from this. If I see they have played Zud or Rychen each a few times for example, I can be pretty certain the player is honorable and I will have a fun game win or lose.
In any case, being able to add info such as what rules you prefer if any or what your favorite maps are or who your favorite people to play are could really help everyone find games and stay away from problems like those that started this thread. I realize the latter 2 can be inferred from the win/lost list but being able to actually list someone is more helpful. Maybe an option would be to add a checkbox to the win/loss submission that says "Add this player to my recommend list" or something similar that when someone looks up that player it would show them that I recommend them.
The idea behind this is after having played 100s of games there is one definite thing I can say and that is that people tend mostly to play other players that play the game similarly to the way they do. They pick opponents that like the same maps, rules and/or honor/values that they themselves have. This idea would help with that for vets and noobs alike and I don't see it as any kind of "blacklist" or anything. All it would do is say that BobbyOhms recommends this guy so if you liked playing me or find my game choices to match yours that you probably would like playing that other person also. It would really help everyone I think and shouldn't take much of a tweak to the programming (The checkbox idea at least. Further being able to edit your profile may run into webpage space issues.).
As for rules... as mentioned ToH doesn't and can't sanction them but if you choose to play with them remember that everyone interprets things differently. In the case of "born log" heroes I might have screwed up on this one cause to me it means the guys like Gunnar who have it as a main ability that grows as they gain levels and not just the heroes that have it as a secondary skill. The main reason I think that way is first off I don't have a problem with log heroes cause if you pick one I'll pick someone who counters or balances the game but also because a hero can easily be offered log as a skill right at the first level increase or there could be a stable nearby... do you ban those too? Everything is just a question of preference which goes back to the original point in the first place... play those you know and who play the same style as you do and you'll be much happier with each game you play and have fun no matter what the outcome. I should know having lost my fair share. LOL
Would love to see that recommend button on the submittal form tho... think it would help a lot... who wants the BobbyOhms Seal of Approval? LOL
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted March 17, 2006 03:01 AM |
|
|
Players should make a good habbit of looking up players they dont know.
I used to do it alot & find average honour & played certain maps only etc.
You really can learn about a player by maps alone or if thier high honour which is very important.
You say if you play Zud or Adam then you must be honourable but what if you played Zud over 30 times & Adam about 7 & lost every one  .
Brave maybe
____________
Dreaming of a Better World
|
|
wanderer
Known Hero
Mercenary on Azure's Kingdom
|
posted April 12, 2006 09:38 AM |
|
|
and the solution is : PLAY WITHOUT RULES. I've seen that always at Frank's rooms... been a little sceptic about it, but after months... reading all those craps (I've been trough some myself also) I decided : NO RULES baby. Game open, free, may the best win.
____________
veni vidi vici
|
|
khounherve
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted April 13, 2006 11:36 PM |
|
|
Why toh is frustrating
Me vs spawn112.
It takes 5 days then he leaves.
He had suicided with his main hero and didn't tell
cause he might had to report a loss.
Not that it mattered but I'd probably offered him a replay anyway.
You speak about honour in some of your threads, and you pretend you would offer replay after suicide. From 2 game experience with you I dont see you as an honourful player. I see you are a veteran. I didnt know you but from what i saw i would have say you act like a point seeker.
first game i suicide, you didnt offer a reload.
But ok it was my fault so i reported a loss.
second game. start balance, my second town blocked by horde wiverns when you just need to fight lots dwarves.
You don't want restart and you come say to me sometimes you can be unlucky ... lol
coming from a veteran, it is really pityful. the horde wivern was intended to block next zone but were misplaced and blocked my town. That you couldnt understand that, ok cause you didnt see my side.
But report a win afterwards, that is not act as an honourful player AT ALL. Maybe you even didnt checked save. So before coming write threads about honour, begin to be honourful yourself.
I understand your frustation about quitters like you explained. But if you dont like to be frustrated, you should think not make others frustrated and makes difference between bad luck and snowed map. To report a loss for a game in a snowed map is not bad luck, it is simply a bad opponent that is not ashamed to report the win.
____________
|
|
vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
|
|
posted April 14, 2006 06:35 AM |
|
|
|
from the days of homm2, homm3, and homm4 when I played like a madman.... I always played with NO RULES. I don't think I would be able to enjoy homm if I followed the billion rules that are implemented these days.
|
|
william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
|
|
posted April 14, 2006 06:53 AM |
|
|
yeah the rules sometimes take the fun out of some of the games.
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted April 14, 2006 11:29 AM |
|
|
Zipiddy do da Zipiddy yaa my oh my what a wonderful day.
Which way did they go which way did they go
____________
Dreaming of a Better World
|
|
|
|
