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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Heroes 3 Town Rating -CASTLE-
Thread: Heroes 3 Town Rating -CASTLE- This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted March 03, 2006 08:24 PM

Heroes 3 Town Rating -CASTLE-

Everyone is invited to share his own opinion about every town in Heroes 3. Try to use these topics as order for your postings:

- Advantages, Disadvantages
- Best creature(s), with explanation why, e.g tactical usefullness
- Worst creature(s), with explanation why, e.g too low stats..
- Special buildings
- Building order (good, too slow....etc..)
- Hero classes (donīt refer these classes ONLY to this specific town, but perhaps they are more usefull with other towns)
- Good / Bad on what kind of maps
- OWN subjective rank in a townranking, from 1st (best) to 9th (worst)

Letīs collect as much opinions as possible, to finally find the best possible "review" of every town.
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grendal
grendal


Adventuring Hero
posted March 05, 2006 09:34 AM

Its pretty hard to follow Xarfax after his posts.  He says it all.  Just to add a thing or 2

Sir Mullich i think is the best hero in the game.  Christian start with balista and builds descently
Clone, expert water and AAs is fantastic.  
I think its Adelaide? is a must in diplo games.
The speed difference between AAs and royals is a severe handicap imo (in a no con game)
Leadership is a descent bonus when your starting 3 heroes include a necro.

I rank this a 3.  4 in no con games.


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Russ
Russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted March 06, 2006 06:08 PM

You get 3 heroes with armies when you start:
1) the hero you've chosen
2) one native hero in the inn
3) a random hero in the inn
So, with leadership you can use Straker's zombieZ without having bad morale, and everyone knows that zombieZ are DA BOMB!!!

IMHO, leadership is one of the worst skills your hero can get. It is extremely unreliable. It NEVER works for me. You'd have a fight where your 10 AAs morale while fighting lots of imps, but you NEVER get morale when you are fighting your opponent or hordes of dragons
Aside from that - temples, rally flags, etc are quite common, as well as small +morale artifacts.

Mullich is the best hero? Can he beat level 20-30 Tazar?(he takes less than 70% damage) Can he beat level 20-30 Crag Hack? (sometimes he will do over 100% more melee damage) Can he get earth magic in time? Considering knight's rather poor skills - what if you get estates or navigation as your 2-nd skill?

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grendal
grendal


Adventuring Hero
posted March 06, 2006 06:52 PM
Edited by grendal on 6 Mar 2006

Leadership does suck as a skill cause you can get it thru arites instead.   But does help in those games where necro is the 3rd hero to start.

I just think +2 speed to all creatures is a huge advantage.  It makes clearing the map much quicker, and doing fights earlier than would have been possible.
He will develop quicker and hopefully meet hack or taz or meph before they reach that level 20-30 .
He also eliminates the speed gap problem between 1st and 2nd creatures in the end fight.
Mass slow becomes much less effective in end fight.
With tactics and mass haste you can eliminate opponents level 7 stack allowing all units to strike first round.  This pretty much ensures in second round you can counter the first round spell cast by opponent and have all units strike first again second round.

In the end fight, to me its all about the speed.  Who has it and who has it to start the second round.  If you can control that then you will win almost all fights.

That said, Hack is my second best hero.  I would never kick him out of my tavern

Choices for best heroes is dependant on a number of factors. I certainly wouldnt argue with anyone who thinks hack,meph,taz,gunner are better heroes.   They very well might be.  In general i just would prefer mullich
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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted March 07, 2006 12:13 AM

Sorry grendal i cant follow your Mullich thing.

Nope hes not good at all and doesnt win games. Maybe usefull with lots of demon farming...nah he sucks.
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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 07, 2006 12:21 AM

I havent played Mulich very often since he is allmost allways banned. But the few times ive played him he has worked very well. He does clean the map faster and with less losses especially in the beginning of the game and that can very easily make the diffrence since speed is allmost everything in this game.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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Zsa
Zsa


Famous Hero
posted March 07, 2006 01:35 AM
Edited by Zsa on 6 Mar 2006

mulich is a very good hero, his special ability is extremely useful (as mentioned) in fighting on the map. You'd sometimes give your left nut in some final fights to have the cape of velocity on you, mulich already has it.

I don't really know if he's better or not than armourer, off specialists but he is definetly a very good hero in my book even though he starts with a mediocre skill like leadership.  

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted March 07, 2006 02:09 AM

no no no...hes might be better then the other knights...but please hes far away of being one of the best.

His secondary skilling is just awful...almost never ull get earth or blacksmith with him, which makes his troups die faster under his hands. Even with his +2plus movement u just cant do what u cant do with a normal barb or demoniac. Additional to this he starts with advanced leadership, which means he can be spoiled anyway as soon as he gets another sucky skill as second, which IS VERY MUCH likely. My advice is not to take him with few exceptions (example u see the cape around and he gets a very good skill as second).

My opinion is thumbs down: Hes far away of being amongst the best.
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grendal
grendal


Adventuring Hero
posted March 07, 2006 08:10 AM
Edited by grendal on 7 Mar 2006

Ok so a couple points need to be addressed here i think

1.  I may have overstated Mullich being the best hero, Im not sure cause ive never actually played an equal player who has hack.  That said, he certainly is still a great hero

2.  Leadership doesnt suck, eagle eye sucks.  Leadership is mediocre.  Morale with aas in final battle is a killer.  Sure other heroes can get arties for leadership but that pretty much eliminates 3 arty slots on the hero.  So if leadership hero doesnt get that advantage then he gets it in the arties.  Spirit of oppression can nullify (occupying an arty slot) but getting it isnt common place in games

3. If u use the logic that "since he has advanced leadership chances of getty crappy second skill is increased"  then you have to apply the same logic to hack (he has adv offence).  Secondly, i dont recall having bad experiences developing Mullich. So i tested (50 new maps) giving Mullich 2k exp from a box.  The results were:

Times..........2nd level............3rd level
11-----------leadership-------logistics
 3------------logistics
 4------------leadership-------tactics
 6------------tactics
 2------------leadership-------armour
 5------------armour
 2------------leadership-------earth
 4------------leadership-------air
 1------------air
 2------------leadership-------offense
 1------------wisdom
 1------------leadership-------wisdom
 1------------leadership-------navigation/diplomacy
 1------------leadership-------navigation/resistance
 1------------leadership-------navigation/fire
 1------------leadership-------intelligence/diplomacy
 2------------leadership-------artilery/scouting
 1------------leadership-------artilery/intelligence
 1------------leadership-------pathfinding

My Conclusions:

Firstly i consider tactics, armour, earth, air offense,wisdom all skills i would want.  Given this, 84% of the time mullich will suffer no bad effects from having advanced leadership to start.  This stat should be similar to Hacks skills.

Secondly, i agree earth in general is much harder to get with a knight.  However with the plus 2 speed and air (earth or air will be offered i think) this makes not getting earth not anywhere near as important.

Thirdly (which surprised me), logistics is offered in the first and second level ups 28% of the time according to these stats (actually a bit more because i didnt record some second level choices which were logistics).  So actually about 30% of the time you get the big advantage of having logistics to start the game.  This is a significant bonus.

I consider intelligence, pathfinding, artillery, fire mediocre secondary skills.   But not aweful and sometimes useful.  So imo you will only get a crappy secondary skill 4% of the time.


Finally, in  most of my games against the best players, as Maretti stated, mullich is banned (in my experience) and hack or taz isnt.   There is a reason for that

One advantage i forgot to mention is that with mass haste topes can be taken with little or no loss (and this can be done at an earlier stage in the game than other heroes)

edit

sorry for the spacing in the table.....it was there when i typed it, but gone now
 

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Zsa
Zsa


Famous Hero
posted March 07, 2006 04:04 PM

that's pretty interesting grendal and a bit surprising to be honest.

But it does fit in with the fact that last time i played mulich, I got offered basic log on the first level up .
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"You sound like zsa who only plays the game on forums" - Russ

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grendal
grendal


Adventuring Hero
posted March 07, 2006 04:52 PM
Edited by grendal on 7 Mar 2006

Ok at the first level up i chose leadership if the other skill offered wasnt an accceptable one.  So the majority of the time i had to take expert leadership (recorded with leadership under 2nd level).

At second level up i chose a skill that was acceptable to me. (listed it by itself under 3rd level)

When there wasnt an acceptable skill offered, i listed the 2 skills that were offered (except the leadership then pathfinding which i forgot to record the other option.)

The "times" category was the number of instances each situation had occured

Also thinking about this as i slept last nite, im not ready to concede hack would be better in the final fight.
Against a stronghold army i would have initiative.  Casting mass haste would get 6 of my stacks across the screen and attacking (more than likely 7 or more attacks with morale).  This would significantly reduce the number of units Hack has and significantly reduce Hacks offence specialty.   Also there would be no way of preventing a mass army attack from mullich in the second round.
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william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted March 08, 2006 10:07 AM
Edited by william on 9 Mar 2006

The Castle well:

The Castle has an extremely powerful lev7 unit Archangel which can ressurect dead allies and also +1 morale to your troops.
Cavaliers are good have Jousting bonus and are pretty powerful.

Downside: Angels cost quite alot.
Most of the Heroes don't come with a spellbook which is a waste of money buying one.
When you buy Griffin tower you have to wait until the next week to actually buy some of them.
Pikeman is a bit weak.
Have to buy a spellbook for the heroes when you hire them which can be a waste of money in my opinion.

Good things:
Angels and Archangels are extremely powerful and you can easily wipe out your opponent within a few weeks.
Quite powerful overall units (except maybe the Pikemen)
Good bonuses to the troops.
Master Swordsman or whatever they are called, strike twice which can be quite useful against Harpies or Harpy hags.
Champions can move nearly right up to the enemy unit which can be useful, also the Griffin can aswell which can be quite good because you could move your whole army nearly on the first go.
2 flyer units whcih is quite useful because they can move quite far up on the battlefield.

Having the Castle can easily be one of the best town types mostly because of the Angels/Archangels and because of the Heroes that can be hired like Orrin for example.

Good Heroes that you hire from the Castle.
For example Orrin who has a skill of Archery can be quite useful because when he gets to about level 20 the damage from Ranged attackers will nearly double and that is really good, because you have 2 good ranged attacker:The Archers/marsmaen and the Monks/Zealots which are powerful.

I personally really like The Castle but it can sometimes be a bit too easy mainly because of the Angels and sometimes i am looking for a bit of a challenge.


But A very good town nonetheless.

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Evil_Warrior
Evil_Warrior


Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
posted March 08, 2006 04:09 PM

Advantages : more hero movement and morale
Disadvantages : only level 4 mage guild
Best creature : Royal Griffin with unlimited retaliaton, Crusader with double strike combined with counterstrike, Champion with haste or prayer, and Archangel rescurrection.
Worst creature : Halberdier (not quite effective, high price.)
Building order : the buildings are reasonable in price and requirements, fast to be developed.
Hero classes : Knights and Clerics compared with other heroes aren't quite special. maybe some has useful speciality like prayer. but many other classes of heroes are better.
Good : all kind of maps coz of the heroes' movements and the shipyard building + lighthouse.
Bad on what kind of maps : none

1. Dungeon
2. Necropolis
3. Castle
4. Rampart
5. Conflux
6. Inferno
7. Tower
8. Fortress
9. Stronghold

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LordLazy
LordLazy


Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
posted March 10, 2006 12:38 AM

all might heroes classes except alchemists and death knights start without spell book william
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Tagged officially as Noobegian two years ago. This typographic material is strictly copyrighted. All situations containing abuse will be brought to court.

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william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted March 10, 2006 10:26 AM
Edited by william on 11 Mar 2006

Quote:
all might heroes classes except alchemists and death knights start without spell book william



I know but I think that buying a spellbook for 500 gold is just a waste of money, I think all hero classes should start off with one, and that's in my opinion. I think that is probably one of the heroes weaknesses not starting with a spellbook, because in early stages of the game, you could get slaughtered because you don't have any spells to protect your troops with, and the computer will cast lightning bolt for example and you might die, because you can't protect yourself with Prayer for example.
The Spellbook is probably one of the most exciting things about the game (my opinion), because casting spells is great, I love watching the cahin lightning spell, and the Prayer spell, really good animations and cool sound effects and it makes it more exciting.

Still the Archangel can ressurect dead units, even f you don't have a spellbook, and that I think is probably one of the best features of the Archangels.

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morgan_le_fey
morgan_le_fey


Famous Hero
posted March 11, 2006 08:10 AM

my spin on unit values 1 to 10

1 pikemen 9 excellent hps def and damage beats all other 1st level 1 v 1 in equal numbers
2 archers 7 good upgrade flyers smash them
3. griffons 7 good special good upgrade
4 crusaders 9 good power double attack rocks
5. monks 3    ho hum
6 cavaliers 3 good power good hps but you usually have to start without this one w1
7. angels 8+ fastest good hps most powerful flying and res but cost can be a factor here sometimes

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Guitarguy
Guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted March 17, 2006 01:07 PM
Edited by Guitarguy on 17 Mar 2006

My Assessment of the Castle Town

Disclaimer: The contents of this post were written solely to reflect my experiences from playing H3 singleplayer on Hard difficulty. Much of this material will not help one become a masterful online player, so take all of this with a grain of salt. Any strategies I've written here have worked for me, so I don't need a stern lecture about not doing things correctly. I might restate ideas and information previously posted in this thread, provided it is relevant to my gaming experience. This review is far from perfect, so please forgive any mistakes or other areas that I may have overlooked during my rush to complete this. I will greatly appreciate your tolerance and consideration. Thanks!

Advantages:
*Strong creatures with useful special abilities.
*Moderately decent build order.
*Not particularly demanding of rare resources.
*Knights = capable might heroes.

Disadvantages
*Creatures are expensive.
*Building all dwellings during Week One is an impossibility.
*Possibly problematic if wood is in short supply, which can happen occasionally.
*Mage Guild 5 is unavailable.
*Clerics = mediocre main heroes.

The Creatures' Ups and Downs (abbreviated)
Pikemen/Halberdiers:
(+)Good health and damage; a solid Level 1 and good support for Archers.
(-)Pikemen are slow; typical high casualty rate of Level 1 creatures in battle.

Archers/Marksmen:
(+)Marksmen's double shots; especially useful during early game.
(-)Fragile; a frequent target of enemy troops and turrets; also not very fast.

Griffins/Royal Griffins:
(+)Fast; can tie up ranged creatures; can absorb and deal retaliation attacks.
(-)Not very strong; often cut down by enemy gang attacks.

Swordsmen/Crusaders:
(+)Good damage; Crusaders' double strike is powerful.
(-)Not particularly fast; can be overwhelmed by stronger creatures.

Monks/Zealots:
(+)Decent ranged damage; Zealot's no-adjacent penalty.
(-)Somewhat fragile; an occasional target of Ice and Lightning spells.

Cavaliers/Champions:
(+)Fast speed; jousting bonus; solid damage and defense.
(-)Expensive.

Angels/Archangels:
(+)Fast & powerful; Devils' bane; morale; Resurrection is the (not-so) hidden ace.
(-)Stacks only Resurrect once per battle; victimized by strong gang attacks.

Special Buildings
Stables:
*Increases heroes' movement.
Shipyard:
*Allows water travel, if along a shoreline.
Lighthouse:
*Increases movement of boats.
Brotherhood of the Sword:
*Bonus to defenders' morale.

Notable Adventure Map Locations
Stables:
*Increases heroes' movement; upgrades Cavaliers for free!
Hill Fort:
*Upgrades Pikemen for free; can upgrade Angels w/o upgraded dwelling in town.
Griffin Conservatory:
*Angels are the reward for fighting Griffins!

Building Order

The build order is reasonable because it assists in the completion of two goals for the first couple of game weeks: building dwellings and paving the way for the Capital. Both the Blacksmith and Mage Guild 1 are among the buildings required for the City Hall, so their construction serves a useful double purpose. At the very least, the Citadel should be reached by the end of Week One. The Griffin Tower can be postponed to the second week if necessary. Later on, the Griffin Bastion will help to make up for the lack of Griffins during the first week.

Overall, the Castle's rate of development depends on the availability of resources. As long as wood and gold are in good supply, most of the initial dwellings should be built without trouble. The Portal of Glory (and possibly the Training Grounds) will usually be built following the first week.

Hero Classes
Knights are good might heroes because of their (mostly) balanced Attack and Defense ratings. High-level Knights with some magical capabilities will greatly improve the fighting quality of Castle's already formidable troops.

Clerics' slow progress in gaining reasonable levels of Attack and Defense is a big liability; it hampers their ability to rally their armies strongly in battle. When facing seasoned enemy troops led by a powerful might hero, the standard Cleric's army will usually feel strained under the weight of the onslaught. Some consolation may be found the Clerics' spellcasting, but their abilities pale in comparison to that of Warlocks and Wizards.

Knights can develop a number of combat skills, such as Offense, Armorer, Ballistics, and Tactics. Knights begin with Leadership, which can be considered either a beneficial addition or a waste of skill space. With some luck, Knights may be offered a worthwhile magic school. Clerics are more likely to be offered secondary skills geared towards magic than combat. Clerics tend to receive Diplomacy, which is a powerful persuasive skill.

While many Knights are useful, Orrin can bring out the best in ranged armies. Christian raises the stats of his Ballista, which is helpful if he can amass a high Attack skill count. Tyris' early use of Tactics is also handy during the first few weeks of fighting. Among Clerics, Adela stands out because she starts with Diplomacy. The problem is that simply having Diplomacy won't guarantee victory. On the other hand, Clerics like Caitlin and Ingham provide extra income and combat bonuses for Monks (respectively).

Castle armies needn't only be matched with Knights or Clerics to be successful. Rampart, Stronghold, and Fortress are also worthwhile contenders who'll contribute a lot of combat prowess. It's probably less than ideal to partner Castle troops with the lower-tier magic heroes, however.

Suitable for What Kinds of Maps?
Both beginners and advanced players can be successful with the Castle town.

Castle work well on both large and small maps, provided there are enough resources to fund the dwellings and creatures. Sawmills may be located inconveniently on some random maps, causing players to explore/travel a while before they can flag it. An example of this is when a small mountain separates the starting town from an otherwise "nearby" sawmill. In most cases, this shouldn't be a problem.

The more advanced difficulties may cause financial problems for the Castle player, but this applies to every other town type as well. Nevertheless, it is important to note the consequences of a lack of wood. Like the Fortress town, wood is needed to construct the Level 6 dwelling. A shortage can catch a player off guard and halt town development.

Subjective Rating
I'd place Castle at 2nd place, because it is a very powerful and versatile town. I even considered placing it in 1st place, but I decided to hold off from drawing hasty conclusions. My opinion of the towns may change with time, so this is just a temporary judgement.

-Guitarguy
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted March 17, 2006 01:42 PM

Thread cleaned from Spamming, Bashing and "quarrels" about different opinions.
The first post of this (and all other Town Rating threads) says:
- Everyone is invited to share his own opinion....
- Letīs collect as much opinions as possible, to finally find the best possible "review" of every town.

So please....stop doubting every opinion which differs from your own. We will collect many opinions, and i will write a summary out of all of them at the end.
This summary can be discussed again then, to find the best review for the AoH site.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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ComradeX
ComradeX


Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
posted March 17, 2006 07:32 PM

Advantages:
Solid army, many might oriented skils and heroes.

Disadvantages:
Can be expenssive at crucial times. Archangel's dwelling takes you a very long period of time to build (resource wise). Champions are expensive for their level.

Creatures:
Many powerfull creatures. Very solid army. Has the games most powerfull creature, the Archangel. The Archangel, although expensive, is very effective: 30 30 skill, 50 set damage, 2nd best speed (accept the phoenix), 250 HP, gives +1 marale, can ressurect ones per stack. Champions are among the best of level 6. Fat and powerfull. If you cast haste on them they can reach almost any point of the battlefield and get a huge jousting bonus. 2 ranged creatures : monks and archers. Monks are weak, and have a low growth rate, that is a downside. Archers are fragile, and only become usefull after being upgraded, because of 2 shots in a turn. Griffins are good. Despite the fact their skills aren't anything special, they have good HP, decent growth rate, and the multiretaliation is a big advantage. Crusaders are just powerfull! 2 blows, great skills (12 12), decent HP (35), fast, good damage. Pikemen are the best 1st level creatures, although they are slow.

Buildings:
Slow and solid building order. Stables are pretty usefull, the silo givel +1 ore & wood, and not just one "rare" resource, Archangels don't need anything but gold (at some of the versions) to recruit, magic guild is weak, but has "life" oriented spells good for fighting undead. Might is the towns strength. Good to have a growth boosting building for the 3rd level creatures (griffins).

Heroes: Knights are among the best Might creatures. They have leadership, some have tactics and some artillery. All of those are pretty usefull for might heroes, combined with good attack & defence stats that grow rapidly. Might is castles best field. As for magic... clerics are poor magic heroes, so don't take them. Use wizards, as magic is natural for them. Best hero: Sir Mullich. as said at the tavern: "on the battlefield speed is life and life is speed". Mullichs +2 speed takes the cup on this one.

Final Rank : 2nd best town.
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys

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supersonic
supersonic


Famous Hero
being digested. E=mc^2, s=vt
posted March 17, 2006 09:49 PM

Advantages:
-You can have angels week one
-Castle is well suited for every opponent (many shooters, fast units, two flyers)
-Castle heros usually pick up nice skills
-Castle is mostly a true medieval castle (with 3 exceptions), so just a flavour advantage
Disadvanages:
-R.E.S.O.U.R.C.E.S.
-Only magic guild 4 (no implo)
-If you fly with angels and griffons into battle, you will get mashed. To achieve success, you'll need to put all your units into battle (teleport is useful)
-monks and zealots SUCK.

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