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| Thread: Heroes 3 Town Rating -STRONGHOLD- |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted March 08, 2006 04:55 PM |
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Edited by Russ on 8 Mar 2006
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Quote:
And Russ, there's no denying that ToH is geared towards might heroes.
It helps to reading the posts you are replying to. Read them again and you'll notice that I mentioned some of those rules and the kind of players who make them. Also, read my comments in relation to h&r, DD and fly. I hope that helps.
Btw, Zsa, let me ask you a question. In our last game you had dd, fly, chain lightning and 300 mana on your MIGHT hero. My question is: do you think you would still have those it if you used a magic hero? I rest my case.
As I've said, even the most powerful magic heroes stop being useful on week 3 day 1 at the latest. I don't deny the fact that on open templates or small maps Solmyr and Deemer will rule.
In regards to h&r - yes, it is very powerful, but it does have its limitations. And a might hero with faster army can h&r just as well.
DD, fly and h&r do not depend on the hero class. It mainly depends on who gets the spells first. It makes the games too random. Any noob can get dd/fly scroll or kill a bunch of golems for an air book or a pandora (yep, I've seen them being guarded by golems before). Those spells allow someone with 0 skill to win games they would never win otherwise. That is the reason I ban them. Also, as you mentioned, fly allows you to pick up stuff without fighting the guards.
Aside from all that - I think that might heroes will get those big spells first. We can play a game where all of those spells are allowed, if you want.
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hellwitch
Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
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posted March 14, 2006 05:30 PM |
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- Advantages:
Fast build lvl 7.Good might heroes and Logistic hero too.In most games starting location is reach as well as the troop are cheep!
Good for fast games about 3-4 weeks on Multiplayer
Disadvantages:
lvl 1,2,5 dies easy.Cyclops not very useful because thir building want 20crystal.No 4 and 5 lvl magic.
- Best creature(s), with explanation why, e.g tactical usefullness
Rocks - fast,good damage
Behamouths - can beat othe lvl7 if they reach them
Ogres - the best 4lvl unit
Upg. Wolf Rider - 2 strikes - a lot of damage but dies easy
- Worst creature(s), with explanation why, e.g too low stats..
Orc - one of the worst archers.A lot of healt(not needed accept for sacriface).low stats and e.g.
- Special buildings
- +1 Attack is good building,the market improvement too.
- Building order (good, too slow....etc..)
quite good
- Hero classes (donīt refer these classes ONLY to this specific town, but perhaps they are more usefull with other towns)
- Well 3 heroes are my best here Krag Hack(Attack),Gundulla(Attack) and Dessa(Logistic)
- Good / Bad on what kind of maps
- Good for M and L maps.On long game some of the other tribes have a big advantige from better units(Castle,Dungeon,Necro,Rampart)
- OWN subjective rank in a townranking, from 1st (best) to 9th (worst)
6 , but they are from my favorite races
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted March 15, 2006 02:40 PM |
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STRONGHOLD
Advantages: Low price of level 7 unit and dwelling with Great health and special ability. Not need hard prerequisities so can be built early.
Disadvantages: Too much crystal required especially for non-level 7 creature dwelling. Only one flyer and the speed is only 11. Can't attack first against most towns.
Best creature :
Ogre Mage which is the best level 4 unit. Just cast Haste and Frenzy on it coz their Health is already high and their great defense can be a harmful attack by frenzy.
Thunderbird is one of overpowered level 6 with Harmful spell, great health, and high speed.
Ancient Behemoth combined with Teleport or Prayer to attack the enemy's level 7 will kill great number of them and the special ability of AncBhmth makes the level 7 easy to be killed by next creatures furthermore.
Worst creature :
Orc Chieftains since they aren't good shooter with special ability. Their low speed makes them to be attacked by other shooters before they can attack.
Special buildings:
This town pays high attention in attack strength. The hall of Valhala and the Grail gives additonal attack as a famous strategy that says : Attack is the best Defense.
the most helpful building is Escape Tunnel that allows us to defend castle with 3 arrow towers without the risk of losing Experienced hero or artifacts.
Building order: Easy to build the level 7, but hard to build the level 6. So the Building order slow to be completed.
Heroes: Not balanced in achievements of primary skills. Not good to use in early combat.
Combat Strategy :
Since the speed is bad, the Enemy will attack first generally to the Orc Chieftains. So place the Ogre Mage next them and don't place Wolf Raider or Hobgoblin coz the enemy will takes 2 advantage : reduce great number of weak creatures and give melee penalty to weak shooter.
When the turn is on you, Cast haste or Prayer. then Attack the enemy that has already move forward with Ancient Behemoth first. then the target is easy to kill since their defence reduced.
Good on full crystal maps
Bad on less crystal maps
Stronghold is the WORST TOWN!
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted March 19, 2006 08:38 PM |
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As the Fortress if all about defence, the Stronghold is all about attack (I think that this was 3DO's goal when creating the Fortress at the first place).
Good things:
Cheap creatures, no great need for rare resources (accept crystall), greatest attack values. Town is concintrated on brute force, and if used right can smash through almost anything and anyone. Secondary skills are mostly phisical ones, and give you plenty of bonuses. 2 good shooters, 1 mighty flyer and plenty of strong walkers. Town is best when talking of might.
Disadvantages:
Needs to much crystal for high level dwellings, has almost no magic (no magic heroes and only 3 levels of magic in the mage's guild), has relatively low defence (as a part of the towns ideology: attack, attack and attack again, no time or need to defend), some creatures are low on stats, slow creatures meaning that you will almost always start second.
Creatures:
Goblins - quick but weak, that's why they have the highes growth rate for level 1 (not counting the conflux).
Wolf riders - Hit twice, have good speed, lack defence (like most creatures of this faction), are vulnerable because of their speed, so don't send them out alone or you'll be sorry.
Orcs - decent shooters, are to slow.
Ogres - strong, sturdy melee creatures. The Ogre mages are among the strongest of their level because of their high attack, good HP and good damage.
Thunderbirds - GREAT creatures. They are fast, powerfull, have good skills, damage and HP, are flyers (well dah, birds...) and have a nice lightning bolt extra attack with their melee.
Cyclops - Fine, Fine shooters. Have relatively low HP for their level, but have good skills and damage. Speed is O.K. The "living catapult" ability (can attack walls) can come in handy during sieges.
Behemoth - Has GREAT HP (300!), the largest in the game (like the Titan)(if you do not count the expanssion dragons), is slow (what did you expect with that much mass and size?), has lousy skills (20 20) but can do the most damage (40 - 60 again like the Titan). Defence lowering skill is very usefull, if you can get your Behemoth to the enemy into melee combat, Good against other 7th level creatures like dragons.
Buildings:
The building order is O.K. but it will be harder for you to build the 6th level dwelling then the 7th level dwelling. The hall of vallhala (do you spell it that way?) suits the towns offensive nature, and the escape tunnel let's you asve a strong hero when loosing a siege.
Heroes:
Bieng Barbarians, and hating magic, the towns is greatly unbalanced class wise. The magic heroes are pathetic, so don't take them (you should not invest in magic at all in this town, maybe only a bit to get basic spells like haste which are usefull for your slow army). This town amphasises on MIGHT and the barbarian class is among the best classes of might. This class gets the highest attack skill and gets good phisical secondaries. Some of the most well known and loved heroes come from this town, like Yog and Crag Hack, and they are good enough to deserve the love of the masses, that's for shoure!
Final Rank: 7th favorite town. I consider this town cute and funny, but still, personaly, i preffer the good alignments.
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted March 20, 2006 03:21 PM |
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Barbarians Offense increases n the crazyness & i love it.
I agree Maretti Goblins are the weakest but could be underestimated because they may die easily but you get so many of them that they can cause at least one good punch before they go.
Players have more to worry about thenm goblins & they can take a hit for any other creature.
Easy to chain with Stronghold & theres no need for strategy with Wolves Maretti.
Not that hard to keep them alive, they are nessary to making completions of your quest faster if you want to use them.
I hear Many say Clops are worst lv 6 or just plain suck.
I dont know they can cause quite some damage with only a few.
Just unfortunate they have basically same requirements on the precious resources then AB.
Usually AB early will help you break faster.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 05, 2006 10:17 PM |
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Final review (discussible)
Advantages
# best attacking force
# low cost on buildings and units
# Level 7 creature deals most damage of all non-neutral creatures in the game
# Level 7 creature is available on day 2 (if level 2 dwell is prebuilt day 1)
# Easiest town to doublebuild (build up 2nd town of same type)
# Some of the strongest heroes belong to that town
# Strong level 5 flying unit available day 1 (or day 2)
# wagons and corpse on rough terrain can contain good arties
Disadvantages
# Fastest creature only has speed 11
# all creatures lack in defense
# 25% movement penalty on native terrain (rough) when carrying at least 1 none native troop (angels from conservatories or wyverns from hives for example)
# rough terrain isnīt as rich as grass, u wonīt find crypts there
Best Creatures
# Ancient Behemots with their 80% defence reduction and 300 hitpoints are a real threat for other creatures
# Wolfraiders with their double hits and their decent attack skills deal great damage
# Ogremagi are very sturdy due to their high hitpoints (highest of all level 4 units)
Worst creatures
# Goblins are one of the weakest level 1 units
# Orcs have the lowest stats of all level 3 units
Building order
Fast building order, level 5 and 7 dwelling very early. Wood, ore and crystal are the most needed resources. In most games, level 6 unit is not or only in few numbers present due to its high resource costs.
Special buildings
+1 attack is always good to have. Escape tunnel can come in handy during a siege. Only town where u can buy ballista (which is great for all barbarian heroes) and ammocart. Freelancers guild can help in poor maps when u lack in resources and found some needless units (from hero in tavern, non native external dwellings, other towns..etc...)
Hero classes: Barbarians
Barbarians achieve at least the same high ranking as beastmasters, overlords, demoniacs.
The reason why they are prolly on top of that ranking is, ALL 8 of them are good heroes, while every other class has its weak members aswell.
Barbarians canīt get watermagic, therefor their chances to get earth and air are pretty high.
Every barbarian starts with offense, they get other essential skills like logistics, armorer, tactics offered most of the time.
Best hero in the game will prolly be Crag Hack due to his offens speciality. No other hero is able to deal as much damage as him (conditions being equal).
Hero classes: Battle Mages
Battle Mages are for Stronghold, what Alchemists are for Tower. A mixture of might and magic. They all start with wisdom and a spellbook. Nevertheless they tend to get more "might" skills offered than magic skills. Best heroes out of that class will be Dessa, Gundula and Terek.
Best Playing conditions
Very good on poor and average maps, where other towns will have problems to build their level 7 dwelling early.
Ranking compared to other towns
Even though it lacks a bit in speed (refered to the units), this town is really strong and very fast in cleaning the map. After Necropolis, Conflux and Castle, i would place it on 4th together with fortress.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted April 05, 2006 10:44 PM |
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Edited by Russ on 5 Apr 2006
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Quote:
# rough terrain isnīt as rich as grass, u wonīt find crypts there
You won't find water wheels or leprechauns either.Quote:
Freelancers guild can help in poor maps when u lack in resources and found some needless units (from hero in tavern, non native external dwellings, other towns..etc...)
Units from the hero in tavern are a needed fodder. Other towns and level 2+ non-native external dwells require money. In rare occasions where you don't need the extra fodder, you'll rarely get back the money you've spent building the freelancer's guild. You need several marketplaces to make it worth it.
I think you should say that in the above situations you SHOULD NOT build it. It only makes sense to build it if you've got some serious army that you want to sacrifise and a few markets. Otherwise it is best to just keep the armies and use them as a fodder. A few gremlins won't pay for the guild.Quote:
Only town where u can buy ballista (which is great for all barbarian heroes) and ammocart
You'll spend 5000 gold + resources buying one. Without the artillery skill the ballista will sometimes hurt you because it will break the blind with its pathetic damage.
Building order
You could also mention that you can afford to build a town hall and a marketplace on week 1 on poor maps without really hurting your building.
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Damacon_Ace
Famous Hero
Also known as Nobris Agni
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posted April 12, 2006 02:17 PM |
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THE STRONGHOLD
Advantages:
- Ancient Behemoths are awesomely good creatures - 80% defense reduction attack even downs level 8 dragons with ease
- Thunderbirds are great level 5's with lightning attack
- Heroes develop very high attack skills
- Cheap to build and maintain
Disadvantages:
- Units are very slow - opposition will almost always get first attack with faster units
- First two level units are worthless in anything except large numbers - wolf raiders and hobboglins are two of the worst units in their levels
- Cyclops are dreadfully hard to build with 20 ore/20 crystal
- Lack of spells (level 3 Mage guild, low chance of knowledge/spell power)
Heroes:
- Battle Mages are my preferred choice of hero, Barbarians just simply don't get enough magical ability to tickle my fancy. Gundula and Dessa are my favourites.
If I have to choose a Barbarian, it will be Crag Hack, but he is no legend as most people think - there are many more heroes that are better than Hack
Best Unit:
ANCIENT BEHEMOTH - need I explain again?
Worst Unit:
WOLF RAIDER - two attacks, but often targeted by the enemy and can't take hits
OVERALL RANKING: 7th
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No one knows my true nature here...
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Gallow
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Avenger
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posted August 12, 2007 12:30 AM |
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Stronghold for me is in second or FIRST position in the ranking,seems noone of you know how play correctly with this town,i love this town and i know how play it and its DEADLY,so i disagree with those ppl who say 8th or 7th,maybe cos everybody plays with castle,tower,boring necro idk,and in WoG,hobgloblins and orcs get the speciality of strike 2 times hehe,so that is very good,+ the speed of the goblins,and ogres,thunderbirds cyclops and behemoth always last long in battles,and a barbarian hero can have good magic,Crag Hack is the best no doubts.and stronghold town,the best
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Klazier
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 12, 2007 12:24 PM |
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Why these kind of reviews aren't in Library - Table of Contents?
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted August 12, 2007 12:29 PM |
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Because the Table of Contents has not been updated for a while, and these threads were made after the last update on the TOC was done 
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Klazier
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 12, 2007 04:02 PM |
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Edited by Klazier at 16:02, 12 Aug 2007.
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Oh ok  But it would be much useful if it would be updated. There are numerous of threads that are very helpful, including this one
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LiZaRdMeN
Disgraceful
Known Hero
The king of Grimheim
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posted August 14, 2007 08:01 AM |
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Stronghold are the strongest-nice creatres,cheap buildings,the coolest looking level 7.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 21, 2009 08:56 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 18:14, 24 Aug 2009.
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Post made by Lumske_Beaver
My Stronghold guide: First I want to look at each creature
Goblins/Hobgoblins
Average ground units, goblins are produced in large numbers. The upgrade to Hobgoblins is a must because of the +2 increase in speed. Also, you must have Hobgoblins to get Wolf Raiders, so make sure that you get them. Goblins/Hobgoblins are good fodder in small numbers, making them an excellent choice for taking the retaliation attack away from enemy units. In large numbers, they are a swift stack, capable of inflicting considerable damage to unguarded shooters or other vulnerable stacks.
Wolf Riders/Raiders
These creatures are exellent and very important for the Stronghold. There is no question that the upgrade is a must. The double attack and solid damage (3-4) is one of the cornerstones of your attack strategy, so you don't want to waste it by trying to work with the lesser Wolf Riders. Always try to attack first with the Wolf Raiders, rather than retaliate, for the obvious reason of losing the double attack ability. Also, because of the low health of these units (10), they're best used to finish off enemy stacks or against creatures with high health and a slower speed than themselves.
Orcs/Orc Chieftains
Compared to other low level shooters, this unit is quite poor. Their stats and speed is all low and most time they are a waste. Though they can be useful in some situations if you have to fight horde dwarfs and such first week. They are also abudant in growth and because of their damage range 2-5, bless and orcs can be a good combination. Also Precision should be considered, especially when employed by Jabarkas or Zubin, but overall they are mostly not worth it.
Ogres/Ogre Magi
This creature can win battles for you, but the cost of 20 wood is very high (only buy it if you have loads of wood, rich maps). Again a upgrade is important (+ 50 % to health and an ability to cast bloodlust which is great together with wolf raiders. Sometimes I use a single orgre to cast bloodlust and the rest for fighting (see below). Their shortfall is speed, but this can be overcome since haste and Air Magic are both easily attainable by Stronghold heroes. They can certainly inflict incredible damage with their high attack value (13), and a wide damage range (6-12). Again bless is good.
OM's can be the deciding factor in long battles with a high number of units on both sides.
Rocs/Thunderbirds
This valuable unit is Stronghold's only flyer. Good health (60) and the ease of building the Cliff Nest structure will allow you to gather a large number of them early in the game. The huge increase in speed (+4) and the Lightning Strike speciality make for a good upgrade, however, this can be put off until after the Behemoth Cave is built. Thunderbirds are the fastest Stronghold unit (11) which makes them indispensable. When laying siege to a town, don't send your Thunderbirds right away, wait and go for the attack/retreat tactic at the end of turn/beginning of next turn.
Cyclops/Cyclops Kings
These are the hardest units to get, and, in my personal opinionm, one the worst sixth level unit in the game due to the hardness of getting them. Unless the game is long and you've got the spare resources to build a Cyclops Cave, don't even bother. Even then, you're behind in production compared to other town's sixth level production.
If you do build it, then the upgrade to the Cyclops Kings is a must, although the cost difference is outrageously high (750 vs. 1100 per unit). Of course their attack (17) is good and they do average damage, but overall they are way to expensive, you'll need the crystal for you B's and AB's. Their Ballistics special ability is also rarely used. I've found that by the time you are ready to build them, you will usually have an another town from which to draw their replacement.
Behemoths/Ancient Behemoths
This creature makes the life of seventh level creatures difficult. Their unique ability to ignore 40% (B's) or 80% (AB's) of a unit's defense, allows them to inflict astonishing damage to units with high defense values. Their above average speed allows them to reach most units easily, while their inability to fly is the only thing that holds them back from reigning supreme on the battlefield. In most situations, AB's will tear other seventh level units to pieces in no time. They're best used to intimidate your opponent, in an effort to control how he/she utilizes his/her higher level (most vulnerable) units. There are a few situations where you would want to be cautious with how you use them, namely against Mighty Gorgons (Death Stare), Wyvern Monarchs (Poison), Ghost Dragons (Aging), and maybe Dendroinds (Binding). Otherwise there are always reaady for a fight.
My way building up the town
The first to days it is smart getting wolf riders and rocs to make a small army which can fight low level creatures protecting mines and small amounts of ressources. Third day I would most of the time buy Town hall unless (rarely) you can afford to get behemoths. If you get B's on day three you can start attacking low level shooters especially on ground by bringing all of your rocs in one stack, your behemoth, and goblin fodder, use wait with B's and rocs. Fourth day I nomally buy markedplace to trade because you will need loads of wood crystal, ore, and possibly gold, everything else can be traded(if you want ogre magi save 5 gems). If you manage to get B's day three buy townhall instead of marked. Next days go for castle to get as many creatures as possible day 1 week 2. Day seven I use to get behemoth or sometimes I buy marked if I reach to get B's day 3.
Week 2 it is very important to get Thunderbirds due to speed (11), Capitol and a mage guild. Usually upgrade rocs first, then mage guild, and capitol. Try to buy all of the army in your castle first day, but if you have a lot of wood be caution of not using to much money on creatures to ensure that you can get ogres (only if you have a lot of wood)! Rather only buy one behemoth and get ogres than buy all of them and not get ogres! You can actually win most battles at this moment only with one behemoth, all of your T-birds, magic, and goblin fodder. Build orgres late week 2, usually after getting capitol. If any main battle is ahead be sure always buy behemoth (not that common, most likely to happen week four)
Third week you will normally have seen and conquered at least one other town, often a Stronghold. In balanced maps it is not rare to possess two Strongholds first week. The first thing I do when I reach another town is to buy markedplace to make the trade rates better. Then I would wait until week three building any further focusing on my main town instead unless you have huge amounts of gold and ressources, but I haven't tried that yet. In week 3 try to build up castle and behemoths to become even stronger. You will probably not have fort, so doing this takes at least four days, which means that you have to start doing it day 3 week 3. If you don't get haste or slow or none of them in your main try to build mage guild one of the first days week 3 or before (recommended). Late week three upgrade goblins and wolf raiders. In fourth week you are going to be ready for a main fight after upgrading B's and maybe ogres if you get them week 2 (big advantage).
Special structures
The Stronghold has a couple of unique structures: Escape tunnel, Ballista Yard, Freelancer's guild, and Hall of Valhalla
According to me Escape tunnel isn't that good. Why should you flee from your own town? Maybe a secondary army in a secondary town but to mee it seems quite useless. My philosophy is - if you need it, then you might as well as forget about winning anyway, so what's the point?
The Ballista Yard is a bit better. You can always get a Ballista and the opportunity of getting two war machines from one town in a single visit isn't bad.
Freelancers guild allows you to trade creatures for ressources and gold. This can be very useful especially if you have a secondary hero with diplomacy, then you can gather wandering low level troops and trade them for the ressources that you need. Again it is good to have many markeds since they also increase the trade rates of the Freelancer's guild.
Hall of Valhalla is the best of the Strongholds special structures. It is perfect since your heroes generally have high Attack values anyway, and a potential +5% to damage is always quite useful.Every increase in damage is boosted by the hero's Offense skill, so take every point of Attack you can get. Your troops will thank you for it!
Heroes
As many Stronghold players I prefer Babarians as main heroes because of their hihg attack skill. My mantra is: the best defense is a great attack. Of course I like Crag Hack with his offense speciality, but Gurnisson and Tyraxor are also great. My favorite Battle mages are Gundula, Terek, and Vey
My favorite skills for a main hero
Air magic (the most important skill for Stronghold because of mass haste), Logistics (always important, get it as soon as possible) Tactics (this skill makes advantages for you in nearly all battles and it is a cornerstone of your battle strategy), Magic resistance (with magic resistance one of your creatures will likely resist your opponents counter to haste (often slow), making you recasting haste next round before your opponent can reach to do anything, especially if you use single thunderbirds as fodder or if you have high speed creatures (explained below) in your army, this skill is great), earth magic (good against strong wandering troops and avoiding losses in different battles), Leadership (increasement of your morale is great for your attacking strategy; imagine AB's or wolf raiders getting an extra attack before your enemy has a chance to attack you. Armorer can also be good, but often I find this skill superfluous. Why focus on defense if you can beat your opponent by pure attack. Pathfinding is good in maps including large areas of rough terrain.
Spells
The best spells is surely haste and slow, without them you will have a hard time playing Stronghold, but spells like bless (high level creatures), bloodlust (low level creatures), shield, and blind are also good. Like always cure, dispel, and view earth and air are also great spells. Unfortunately it is nealy impossible to get water magic with Barbarians which makes your creatures who already have high attack and low defense vulnerable to especially berserk. Watch out for fire specialists and be sure they have no spell points when you attack them or else you will suffer greatly .
Battle tactics
Probably the most important thing to remember about the Stronghold troops is that they're made for attacking, not defending. Do not make the mistake of holding back, as other units then will slaughter you with your low defense values. Delaying is fine, as long as the enemy can't reach you, but otherwise, you have to attack. In most cases, you control the battlefield, making your enemy react to your moves, rather than taking the initiative and doing what he/she wants to do.
Use your tactic skill placing your units as close to the enemy as possible and cast haste. Works incredibly well if you have any high speed creature as angels from conservatory (fantastic if there is any hill fort around), efreeties, devils, firebirds, dragons, serpents flies etc... in your army which is faster than the opponents fastest unit, preventing him from casting slow at the start. If you manage to get a high speed unit in your army you'll always have good odds. Speed increasing artifacs always works to your advantage, if you have high speed creatures or not!
Without those high speed creatures (commonly) there are two things you will just have to accept. One is that you will most likely not be getting the first attack, due to the average speeds of your units. This will only diminish as the game progresses and your opponents develop their faster, high level troops. The other is that, due to your low Defense values, you are going to take losses.
Typically, your best strategy still is to use your Tactics skill to position your troops as close to the enemy as possible. Obviously, there are situations where you wouldn't want to do this, but they should be obvious, so I'll leave that to your judgement. When you use this plan of attack, either your opponent will "wait" out your spell, so he/she can cast Mass Slow or Dispel to counter your Mass Haste, or he/she will try to cast either Mass Haste/Slow themselves (if they have it). Either way this works to your advantage.
If your opponent "waits", then you will get to cast your Mass Haste, enabling all your troops to tear apart your enemy before they can counter.This is fine because it's what you do best. If your opponent tries to take the initiative and cast first, then that's fine because you've successfully manipulated your opponent into "reacting" to your tactics, rather than giving them the freedom to enact his/her own strategies! Of course, you'll take some losses, but you would have had them anyway. By forcing your opponent into your style of fighting, you will be able to control the entire combat and nobody like to fight on anothers terms, so make them play by your rules.
Another advantage you gain when your opponent casts first, is that you can counter his/her spell (generally use haste), finish the round, get first attack on the next round, possibly resist counter with one of your troops (remember that it is still hasted) and recasting haste before your opponent can reach to do anything, and continue this advantage every round thereafter!
Which troops to bring and how to arrange them
Before a fight always look at the position of your opponents creature before you attack. This gives you a lot of information and try to arrange your units so that they are going to fight the best target for each of them. Fx ensure that your AB's can attack his high level creatures. When havving tactics it is not that important how to arrange your units before the battle, you can always do it beforethe battle unless the opponent also has tactics, then do as mentioned above. There isn't a single way to arange your units since your opponents use several different stragegies and it is a matter of playstile, so I will leave that to you.
The troops I bring to a main fight is of course based on which creatures I have. I always try to get orgres, but sometimes it is not possible. If I get them, there is some different ways of playing. First is to replace the goblins with the Ogres, then the wolf Raiders, T-birds, AB's, single T'bird or possibly a high speed unit, Single T-bird, single Ogre Magi. You can also use yet a T-bird instead of the ogre, but as mentioned above you can use the single ogre to boost your wolf raiders and make them disasstrous, boost another unit next round and so on. The reason why I don't bring the goblins instead of single T-birds or high speed creatures is that then the possibility of a high speed unit resisting a spell becomes lesser. If the battle is really tough I bring them though.
You can also bring all of orgres, goblins, wolf raiders, T-birds, AB's, single T-bird or high speed... (you know what I mean), and Single T-bird. Here you lose your bloodlust ability, but instead you get 200+ goblins. It is up to you how you like to play, both works good for me. Without orgres I just bring single T-birds or 2 t-birds and one high speed... (great resisting probability with 3 high speed creatures), and then the rest of my army. Also if you have Leadership or morale artifacts, consider that you are often going to have extra attacks, so it's not a big problem that you do not have seven strong stacks.
Overall, here's what each best troop is best used for in combat:
-Goblins (if you use them) clear off for AB's and ogres or against shooters.
-Wolf raiders are great against six level creatures, fantastic when boosted with bloodust, or as clearing off troops.
-Orgres (if you have them) mainly fight tough creatures with high health.
-Thunderbirds Shock troop, take out shooter threats.
-Single thunderbirds as fodder, blocking shooters, taking retaliation, hopefully resist enemy's counter spells.
-High speed creature (if you have one)ensuring that you start and can cast haste, hopefully resisting enemy's counter spells, try to avoid losing it if possible.
- AB's use them against seventh level creatures or special creatures (for instance level 10 dragons)
- Cyclops and orcs (if you want to use them, I rarely do) Cover ground troops, take out units with special defenses
With Stronghold, just remembre this: If you kill your opponent before he/she has a chance to attack you, then you don't need any Defense.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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pei
Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
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posted August 21, 2009 06:26 PM |
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Im in between that one and Maneaterīs Stronghold rating:
I. Creatures - a very good mix of range and hand-to-hand power; lot's of hit points, but relatively slow; below-average over-all cost; good growth rates (Goblins, Wolf Riders); very powerful specials, which make this army a terror on the battlefield; good for siege combat
+ troops: Ogre Magi are extremely durable, deal great damage, and can cast Bloodlust!; Thunder Birds are even tougher than Ogres and can summon lightning bolts for additional mayhem; Cyclopes are second only to the mighty Titan as far as range is concerned, but can take down town walls!; Ancient Behemoths can win a 1v1 contest a/st most other lvl 7 creatures
- troops: Goblins are a mild joke, but at least they are numerous and cheap; Wolf Riders are pretty weak, also, so they should be used with care; Orcs are the slowest archer, along with the lowly Master Gremlin; this army can really use some spell support (Bless, Haste, Teleport)
important upgrades: Wolf Riders, Orcs, Ogres, Rocs, Behemoths
rating: 8
II. Special buildings - excellent; the Ballista Yard upgrade provides the Blacksmith with two kinds of war machines; the Escape Tunnel grants you great flexibility when defending a town; the Hall of Valhalla beefs up your heroes permanently; the Freelancer's Guild can supply extra resources on the spot
rating: 9
III. Magic - level 3 Mage Guild; spell restricitions: Animate Dead, Curse, Death Ripple
rating: 6
IV. Grail building - +20 to attack of any garrisoned hero; Stronghold towns with a grail building will be hard to overtake
rating: 8
V. Heroes - Barbarian: the best fighter class available; expect attack ratings to rise fast and keep on rising; with specials like Offense, a high-level Barbarian is a tough opponent
rating: 8
Battle Mage: one of the most balanced classes in the game with a host of useful specials like Logistics, Offense, Sorcery, Gems, Precision (very good for hordes of ranged troops), and Haste
rating: 8
VI. Resource requirements - tons of wood, ore, and crystal; initial dwellings are a pain to build, but the upgrades are very reasonable (which is good, because upgrades are an absolute must for this town); you can get to Behemoths in week one!; few building dependencies
rating: 6
VII. Best opponent - Fortress: Dragon Flies and Wyverns will be ripped to shreds if they try to tie up the Stronghold archers right away and a gradual advance will give barbarian armies time to organize their formation and get some free hits; once the Cyclopes are safely surrounded by Ogres, Behemoths, and Rocs, it is game over for the Fortress
VIII. Worst foe - Tower: the Stronghold is outclassed in the range department and does not have the speed to get accross the battlefield in time to tie up the wizard's superior archers; Stronghold armies need their Ogres to be in the thick of things in order to be successful, but Ogres are too slow to get into attack range before much of the fighting is already done; Titans/Nagas will beat Ancients/T. Birds, while Genies and hordes of Golems/Gargoyles will take care of Goblins/Riders
IX. Final grade: 7.6
BTW:i dont agree with Maneaterīs Special Building analysis & Resource Requeriments(i rather have spec.buildings to 7 as escape tunnel is lame & resource to 4.5 as cyclops seem to feed on crystals ). The heroes should have a 10...but hey thatīs my opinion
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pei
Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
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posted August 21, 2009 06:28 PM |
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I have to add that goblins are not a mild joke...at all, i love them. So...peace...dont shoot me.
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Lumske_Beaver
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 24, 2009 05:13 PM |
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Quote:
VIII. Worst foe - Tower: the Stronghold is outclassed in the range department and does not have the speed to get accross the battlefield in time to tie up the wizard's superior archers; Stronghold armies need their Ogres to be in the thick of things in order to be successful, but Ogres are too slow to get into attack range before much of the fighting is already done; Titans/Nagas will beat Ancients/T. Birds, while Genies and hordes of Golems/Gargoyles will take care of Goblins/Riders
I do not agree about this.
Tower isn't that bad fighting against when you're Stronghold, you just need expert haste and tactics: If you attack a Tower hero on neutral terrain( terrain with no bonuses to the two creature classes) with none of you having speed increasing artifacs, then it's not that difficult.
You are going to start because the speed of thunderbird, genies, and titans are equal and you're attacking (in reversed order you're right unless the stronghold army contains a single high speed creature.
In tactics phase you move all of your troops as close to the enemy as possible (only if attacking unless you have a high speed creature), then you cast mass haste on T'birds turn. T-birds attack mages or mayby one of the crature next to the mages. You also have to bring a sigle T-bird which attack nagas to take retaliation. AB's attack titans, and Wolf Raiders go for nagas who can't retaliate. Then it's cyclops turn (if you have them, but I guess you do since you seem to like them) They shoot naga, titan, or golem. Goblins attack gremlins or gargoyls, blocking gremlins. Ogre have speed 12 when hasted and can just reach to attack the genies.
After this I don't think that the result is that exciting anymore
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 24, 2009 06:29 PM |
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Tower players love to get tactics. It is pretty much essential for their shooters to get protected.
So you have to expect your (stronghold) tactics to be useless.
Ogre magi have speed 10 with mass haste, because they originaly have speed 5.
But in general I agree, Tower isn't the worst enemy, mostly due to speed. All other towns are much worse because of the speed advantage.
Stronghold has good chances if they meet their opponent early imho. The later they meet, the lower their chances are (except things like double build etc...).
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted August 24, 2009 07:09 PM |
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Edited by Shares at 19:13, 24 Aug 2009.
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Very strong town with useful faction based building and strong units with good speed high damage and ok hp and also having some of the best heroes in the game, only lacking the advantage of magic.
Town buildings:
Escape tunnel is propably a quite bad building for your castle, since it's almost never a wise choice to give up your castle. That doesn't mean it's useless, since some times it might be better to escape the battle to reduce enemy xp gain, or protect precius artifacts the hero posess or simply to save your hero. 2/5
Hall of Valhalla gives every visiting hero +1 attack, permanent! Very good building since attack is always good. 4/5
Freelancers Guild is a building that alows you to sell your units for resources or money. Not the best option to have, but surely useful when in extreme need of cash or when having spare creatures that might have joined a hero, even though it's often better to leave the units in the castle for protection, but not always. 2/5
Ballista Yard:
This building is very hard to rate, since the power of the ballista varies a lot. When playing WoG and all ballista upgrades it's a force to be reckoned with, especially in early game. 2-4.5/5
Mess Hall gives you extended growth of Goblins, goblins being a very capable lvl 1 unit, it is a good addition to your castle!
Mage Guild limited to lvl 3, preventing some of the best spells, such as town portal, dimension door and fly.
Town rating 3/5 with a tactical bonus.
Units:
lvl1 Hob Goblin: With average health and damage as well as having good speed and growth it one of the most capable lvl 1 units. Being able to quickly charge and destroy enemy troops in high number when boosted with a good offence hero, being very common in stronghold. 4/5
lvl 2 Wolf Riders: Having good damage, double strike and high speed, the wolf riders can quickly kill enemy troops, dealing very high damage, 'specially with a good hero. Very fragile though, having the lowest health among lvl 2, togather with Archers, Average growth. 3/5
lvl 3 Orcs: Orc being a ranged unit with quite low damage and only having average growth as well as being the slowest lvl 3, shared with golems (only 5 speed), as well as having the lowest health among lvl 3 (except for wights, that have regen). Only useful in high number with a good offence hero. 2/5
lvl 4 Ogres: Being the toughest lvl 4 unit, as well as having one of the highest damages it is a very capable fighter. Also being able to cast blood lust, further increasing melee damage for the many high damage creatures in stronghold. Only lacking speed. Very useful to protect shooters and boosting damage. 3/5
lvl 5 Thunderbirds: Being quite fast and sturdy as well as having right below average damage, compensated by their thunder strikes and good offence heroes, they are able to take a punch as well as being fast and having high damage. Excellent to destroy enemy shooters early. The only thing that could be improved is a slightly higher speed, to reach at first round (9 speed). 5/5!
lvl 6 cyclops: Being the only lvl 6 shooter as well as being able to attack enemy walls, it's one of the deadliest lvl 6 units as well as being one of the best shooters in the game! With average damage, even though it's a shooter as well as decent speed (slowest lvl 6 though) it really only lack a bit higher speed as well as being very fragile for a lvl 6. Do not under estimate these killers, being able to crush enemies with a good offense hero behind them. 4/5!
lvl 7 Behemoth: These are another of the high damage units, Having quite low damage, compensated by the ignore 80% enemy armor, they are able to slash through enemies in seconds! Having very low attack though as well as being very slow for a lvl 7, it is necessary to back 'em up with a good hero! 3/5
The units of this fection isn't really very good, having quite low health, average/high damage and their fastest unit having 9 speed. Most of their units are quite bad alone, any other faction can rip apart high numbers of behemoths on the adventure map. If led by a good hero and used the right way, this faction can use their units' unique abilities and stats, to totally rip any enemy to bits! Having a good offence hero and casting blood lust on any melee unit, it's possible to effectivly counter almost any opposing army, their only weaknes being speed and shooters. The best way to counter this faction is with shooters and magic, casting mass slow and destroying their cyclops and their dead. If you let their units get to you, you will most likely die! So even if each unit is quite average, they can become a most powerful army, their total unit being: 4.5/5
Heroes: Most heroes are offencive in this faction having such heroes as Crag Hack, with offence as specialty, as well as gaining a lots of attack when leveling, they become very dangerous opponents! If you get tactics (when adding speed) they can become the most dangerous heroes in the game! Playing mage with this faction though might be very risky, but can really pay off. Mass haste, bloodlust or bless etc., can remove all their weaknesses or further boosting their damage. Battle mages get quite low spell power and wisdom though as well as getting much lower attack and defence than the barbarians.
Barbarians: 5/5 Being very good and further specialize as well as generlize the faction, they are propably the best heroes in the game, if used right!
Battle Mages: Being a long shot, I really don't want to rate them, since they can vary so much in power from game to game. Sometimes being very useless, being weak mages and weak fighters compared to the barbarians. Somtimes being great fighters compared to other mages as well as being able to be great boosting mages! 1-5/5
Conclusion: Used right, they can rule the game and conquer the world easily! Being used wrong? You might as well give up... That being said, they only lack powerful wizards, speed and health, which is easily fixed with an expert mage that either bless your units or possibly cursing your opponents, or having great warrior class heroes! Personally, I really enjoy playing this faction sometimes, since they are fast paced and sometimes very tactical. You always have to play differently, I enjoy playing them as mages, since it so much harder and more tactical than playing mage in tower or dungeon, or playing shooter based, since there's a lot of tactics in it, and they have cyclops, propably my favourite shooter (not counting rouge factioned shooters, off course). You of course can play Crag Hack and just play plain offencive, that being one of least "tactical" ways of playing heroes, since you from day one, know what to do and even newbie players can play good that way. 4/5 for power and 5/5 for funniness! My favourite team right now!
I'll place them at third place for power, right unde conflux and necropolis. And first place of funniness, right above tower.
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Casihasi
Known Hero
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posted August 25, 2009 12:44 AM |
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I stopped reading when i saw that you rated gobos 4 and wolfs 3 ^^
Seriously, wolf raiders are the most dangerous L2 unit along with marksmen..if they are no 5 you can as well forget the rating for L2s
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