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Heroes Community > Turban Tribunal > Thread: World wide petition - Save Tigris's quality point!!!
Thread: World wide petition - Save Tigris's quality point!!! This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
TNT_Addict
TNT_Addict


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Beautiful Liar
posted March 05, 2006 10:15 PM
Edited by TNT_Addict on 5 Mar 2006

Poll Question:
World wide petition - Save Tigris's quality point!!!

Was I the only one who thought that Tigris was robbed of a quality point when he just tried to explain his point of view and show FoG a new side of HOMM?

For those who did not read this thread here it is.

Tigris is really the nicest guy I know from the zone and if it came to him dissing someone, that must mean that "someone" did something really wrong.

I know that calling someone a noob is an insult but it is just right and hits the spot. Could it be an insult if it is absolutely 100% right statement?

Quality points are earned by sweat and tears and to lose one just in a momment of anger is not worth it.

What do you all think?  



Responses:
Tigris is rightly punished for his insults
What insults?
I don't even know what a nOOb is...
He is wrong but shouldn't be punished!
FoG provoked it first!
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LegendMaker
LegendMaker


Promising
Famous Hero
The Metal Specialist
posted March 05, 2006 10:55 PM

WAY TO GO, TNT !

Thumbs up for this move, TNT !

1) You are DEFINITELY NOT the one to think Tig was deemed a -QP for no good reason.

2) Val did it yet again, so that makes 2 QPs snuffed out for the same case...

3) Does the expression "abuse of power" ring ANY bells, for ****'s sake ?!

4) Additionnal poll question : How objective can that be :
Quote:
I also didn't see where you were directly called a snob.
Given that, in immediate reply to my post, FoG wrote :
Quote:
What is it about playing MP that turns people into such total snobs?

I think the main page subtitle should be changed to:
Library of Enlightenment
HOMM 1-3, MM: strategy, trivia, fiction, MP snobs


a) Well, the guy obviously called you a snob, "such a total snob" to be more precise. Even worse, he wasn't calling only you that, but any and all Heroes' "Online Players" !
b) I agree.
c) I also agree.
d) How could anyone disagree that ?
e) All you have to do to see where he called me a snob is read his reply to my post.

Legendary Revolt
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LM

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted March 05, 2006 11:20 PM
Edited by Xarfax111 on 5 Mar 2006

...well tigris provoked valery and didnt leave him any chance but to give him 2 -QP...thats it.

On the other hand its like always: Noobies can provoke and say what they want, even insulting with a smile.

Additional to this Mods should in my opinion also take into consideration if someone did contribute to the forum or not. That doesnt happen. It looks like its even reverse.

I think after tigris has calmed down and DELETEC his nonsense, the -QP should be deleted too. Should be the end of the story.

After Kuma left his Forum the practise of giving Quality Points for nothing and give -QP only to one side really does make me wonder whats going on.

Maybe angelito and Valerie give me an explaination, cause i really dont understand that.

PS: I voted for "I dont even know what a nOObie is"
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 06, 2006 12:21 AM

Does this remind anyone of the Sir_Stiven... incident? This is exactly the same thing. Tigris perfectly deserves to be penalized.
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Guitarguy
Guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted March 06, 2006 01:17 AM

Quote:
I know that calling someone a noob is an insult but it is just right and hits the spot. Could it be an insult if it is absolutely 100% right statement?

I don't agree with this. So just as long as an insult is well-placed and accurate, it's alright to say it? In total disregard of other people's feelings? It's just not appropriate to force a harsh statement even if it's applicable to the person.

Quote:
Quality points are earned by sweat and tears and to lose one just in a momment of anger is not worth it.

A moment of anger is still a moment of anger. The rules won't change for me just because I feel like spouting the f-word on a particularly bad day. Even if it means I'll lose a hard-earned QP, well, that's life.

I say these things not in response to Tigris' issue, but simply in general.

-Guitarguy
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FriendOfGunnar
FriendOfGunnar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
posted March 06, 2006 06:16 AM

@#&&#$$ I wish I'd never written that post

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted March 06, 2006 06:39 AM

To think I helped you win then call me a snob behind my back .
Thats just sick

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LegendMaker
LegendMaker


Promising
Famous Hero
The Metal Specialist
posted March 06, 2006 07:00 AM

There's a FIRST TIME for everything...

Quote:
@#&&#$$ I wish I'd never written that post
And so, let's all witness the FIRST TIME EVER I actually 100% agree with FoG !

Man, I wish you didn't, either !

Legendary Hope.
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LM

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Lord_Pc
Lord_Pc


Promising
Famous Hero
Groin-Grabingly Clever
posted March 06, 2006 07:09 AM

this has come up a few times in the past and still basic common sense applies

tigris may have been pointing out that someone is a noob but there is always a nicer way to go about saying things like that. i havent read everything but from what i did read tigris could have put things in a more pleasant and nicer way, but didnt so was penalised

i agree with val on giving -qp. they may have been lost in a moment of anger but thats no excuse
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Two goldfish were in their tank. One turns to the other and says, 'You man the guns, I'll drive.'

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Dragon_Slayer
Dragon_Slayer


Honorable
Supreme Hero
toss toss toss
posted March 06, 2006 09:50 AM
Edited by Dragon_Slayer on 6 Mar 2006

I would just like to bring up a couple of facts to everyone. Most people know this already but i have to reiterate just in case.

This is a community, so people should feel comfortable to post. HOWEVER, to be penalized for a pathetic toss like that is just low. This isn't the Brady bunch. We are people from all over the world, with different views and different playing styles. If people want to argue and throw lame insults like "your a snob!" LET THEM! Chances are they will work it out themselves without any interference. If the situation continues to escalate then you don't penalize, you give warnings to both and tell them to relax. If that doesn't work THEN you start giving out penalties.

Whats happening to the community if you cant have a pansy fight with anyone anymore. If i want to have a b**** fight with Pecu then God dammit i will have a b**** fight with him and shouldn't have to fear that i will get a penalty for calling him a little girl.

Quote:
Insults are not allowed at Heroes Community. Insult is any remark that undermines the persona of another member. Whether censored or not, posting insults will attract a warning and then a penalty. A simple way to avoid insulting people is to discuss their actions rather than their personality. For example: rather than saying who they are, "you suck" or "you are a .....", say what you think about what they've done and why you think that, for example "I think your accusation is inaccurate because (facts)".



This is taken from the CoC. I have highlighted the point that backs up my arguement. It clearly states that you will receive a warning first.

Also, who cares if your called a n00b??? Do you know how many times ive been called a n00b since i started posting here??? I was drilled for ages in the Lands of Axeoth, Tavern and The Alter for posting stupid tactics. Then, slowly you learn and you start posting smarter. It takes ages of good posting and community involvment to build up some sort of rep, especially amongst vet players who know how to play online, and have to always put up with n00bs who think they know everything. Im a member of a World Of Warcraft forum, and if you post something stupid, thats been answered a hundred times already you will be called a n00b and probably look like an idiot. So what, get over it. Its all part of learning.

Ive pretty much said whats on everyones mine and what everyone should be saying. If anyonewants to agree with me, GOOD, so you should be!!! If anyone wants to argue with me feel free, i dont care. Call me a little girl and say my post is n00bish. Chances are ive been here longer than you so there! I'm sure ill be sooooo offended by anyone that disagrees with my post that ill go cry to a mod and you will get a penalty!
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LegendMaker
LegendMaker


Promising
Famous Hero
The Metal Specialist
posted March 06, 2006 10:25 AM

Thumbs Up

Disclaimer :

DS, it's so late that it's actually early here and I still haven't slept last night, so please don't mind if just this once I'm doing a one-liner, common, not very well-written post (like is quite the standard for way too many ppl, btw)...

Ok, now here's the one-liner itself :

I couldn't possibly have said it better myself !

Legendarily sparse comment.
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LM

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Guitarguy
Guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted March 06, 2006 10:25 AM

Quote:
If the situation continues to escalate then you don't penalize, you give warnings to both and tell them to relax. If that doesn't work THEN you start giving out penalties.

DS, I do believe Val warned everybody about their behavior early on in that thread. It was on the first page, if I recall correctly. I'm pretty sure that was before the first penalty was given. From the looks of the thread after that point, things continued to roll downhill. That's my honest assessment, minus any major editing anybody did while I was offline.

-Guitarguy
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Guitarguy
Guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted March 06, 2006 10:46 AM

Quote:
Also, who cares if your called a n00b??? Do you know how many times ive been called a n00b since i started posting here??? I was drilled for ages in the Lands of Axeoth, Tavern and The Alter for posting stupid tactics. Then, slowly you learn and you start posting smarter. It takes ages of good posting and community involvment to build up some sort of rep, especially amongst vet players who know how to play online, and have to always put up with n00bs who think they know everything. Im a member of a World Of Warcraft forum, and if you post something stupid, thats been answered a hundred times already you will be called a n00b and probably look like an idiot. So what, get over it. Its all part of learning.

From my post in Acu's thread:
Now, I understand that a lot of members don't mind being called "noobs" in the various threads and situations. It is a term often used in jest between pals, such as Jebus' and my invention "Noobtarguy". Like "foo", it's meant to be fun. On a more serious level, however, the term "noob" can stand for a bit more than a light-hearted joke. It is used to describe a new player or a player who isn't particularly good at Heroes. The thing is, not everybody likes to be called a newbie. Some people take it personally, since the label is more negative than positive. Not everybody comes with "thick skin", and so not everybody will take it well.

Hence, you can't expect everyone to be tough and take namecalling like a pillow fight. I agree about everything being a learning experience and that you need to focus on improving over past mistakes. There's wisdom in those words. However, we're dealing with a huge variety of individuals here with different personalities and characteristics. Adequate room for acceptance must be laid out for those who need it.

-Guitarguy
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titaniumalloy
titaniumalloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
posted March 06, 2006 02:33 PM

The drama of HC..
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John says to live above hell.

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TNT_Addict
TNT_Addict


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Beautiful Liar
posted March 06, 2006 02:45 PM

You mean the "young and the restless" or "baywatch"?

Kinda sad that some people don't share my view and think that Tigris deserves to be punished (preferably spanked ).

That's it! Tigris should be spanked or made to stand in a corner but definately not ripped of his 2 QPs.

Afterall he did admit he should have stopped but couldn't because he ran out on his temper pills .

P.S now I'm equal to Tigris by QPs, recently got my first one, lol... Thanks Angelito!

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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted March 06, 2006 04:21 PM

Since this is the Wastelands, perhaps what I previously have written in the other thread won't be considered offensive or "inconvenient" here.

Basically, what I wrote there was this:

Quote:

*yawn*

HC is boring.

There's always someone new who feels the urge to share the strategies that worked for him against the AI.

There's always someone with some online experience who feels that it is his duty to educate said newbie.

There's always a moderator who think that of all places, the Library of Enlightenment is the least suitable to enlighten said newbie.

Wake me up when something interesting happens.


Seeing how I don't want to rob anyone of the possibility to become familiar with my opinion on the whole subject, I have decided to post it here. Perhaps it won't be considered insulting or particularly offtopic among a dozen equally offtopic posts.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted March 06, 2006 08:44 PM

Quote:
....Wake me up when something interesting happens.....


Sleep well, we will inform you when something special happens...
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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Valeriy
Valeriy

Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
posted March 07, 2006 12:09 AM
Edited by Valeriy on 6 Mar 2006

Cleaning the "HOMM3: Your Favourite and your "Strongest Faction" opinions." thread.

tigris
Quote:
Quote:
Thread cleaned. If this disrespect based on gaming skill continues penalties will fly. RTFM (of HC).


I wasn't dierespecting nothing and i really think this was uncalled for, Valeriy!

By all people, think im not the one Noob bashing or picking on persons here.On the contrary.

So don't be threatening me here, because: first of all i have done nothing that is against the CoC, because i haven't insulted anyone.I just said that guy's post is a toss and that you can clarely see he is a newbie in online games, which he admitted himself;

Second, i really think u don't know me at all and i consider this to be an insult.If u knew me better u would have known id rather help a newbie than bash him.This is in a way hilarious because only a year ago i was the newbie bashed by Xarfax, Acu or Csarmi, and by that i mean bashed, not mildly touched in the ego like Friendofgunnar here.
Anyways i consider ur post a toss too, makes me laugh even.
Better ask around next time, before u grab me by the ears

FriendOfGunnar
Quote:
Quote:
and by that i mean bashed, not mildly touched in the ego like Friendofgunnar here.


I realized about halfway through the flamefest that the reason that it been set off was because of my last comment "Lordy I've played HOMM3 so much this list took me like a minute." This appears as if I, FriendofGunnar, were suddenly appearing at the library of enlightenment to bequeath my blessed opinions upon the ignoble masses.  My intentions were completely different.  The idea that I was trying to get across was that I have played HOMM3 (singleplayer) so long that these opinions rolled out of me with hardly any effort. (I also realize my in depth descriptions of my comments seemed a bit egotistical.  That's just my nature to be wordy as anyone who has tried to read my faction can attest.) So at this point I'm not sure if I should apologize for something that was completely unintentional.  Okay I will.  To all who were miffed at my presumption of uber-expertise, I apologize. (you guys need those little hug and make up smileys like they have at Celestial Heavens)
   
[This thread has now entered it's newest phase: "Community and Togetherness at the Heroes Community"]

Anyway I have actually learned something about multiplayer, which is that there is a high priority for "getting there first with the most". (it looks like people like to play with plenty of resources too) That hasn't changed my opinion about SP though, which is to say the might factions are weak, the Dungeon is great, and I do a lot better off when I get rid of my skeletons at the end of every turn.

Valeriy
Quote:
Tigris your post was negative, condescending and you told someone they should stop acting like a little crying girl or something like that. If that was well intentioned, that certainly didn't show through the writing. If there will be negativity and discrimination based on people's gaming ability, it will get penalised.

tigris
Quote:
My post was negative, condescendent and i was telling Friendofgunnar to read first, some of the valuable threads here in the library, acknoledge the information written there, try those strategies himself, then acknoledge the difference between his current style of play and the one that many great players before him have sugerated in their posts.Also i was telling friendofgunnar to start playing in multiplayer if he wants to learn something new about this game.But that was "in the middle of the flamefest" as he so generously put it.
Quote:
This appears as if I, FriendofGunnar, were suddenly appearing at the library of enlightenment to bequeath my blessed opinions upon the ignoble masses


Honestly, i don't see the point of a person who has a limited, not to say equal to zero gaming experience, other than beating the computer in single player, who is comming to a message board, picks up the forum dedicated to game tactics, and starts sharing out of his extensive experience.As a repercution of that lack of understanding towards what Friendofgunnar's point was with this thread, i suggested him to confront his gaming strategies with other people by simply playing them.

IMHO his opinions are, as i said before, common to the average newbie.This kind of posts don't really fit the Library atmosphere(also IMHO).

Quote:
The idea that I was trying to get across was that I have played HOMM3 (singleplayer) so long that these opinions rolled out of me with hardly any effort


Ok so you din't want to
Quote:
bequeath my blessed opinions upon the ignoble masses


maybe i got it all wrong then and i apologise, but now i am really confused.What were you trying to do then?
U were trying to prove that you played Single player so much, that you discovered armaggedon can't affect black dragons?

@friendofgunnar:I have nothing personal against you, it's just that i love this forum in particular and i have great respect for the people that post valuable information in it, regarding game tactics.Im a big fan of tactics myself, so i see this particular forum IE the Library as an actual library, where you can learn many of the secrets of this great game.I have spend many hours reading through these threads and learning from them.I enjoy doing that.My opinion about persons who  are new to the game is that first they should read and then when they discover something new and interesting, he should post it here, so that he adds a small contribution to this enciclopedia.If you would have tried to read first, at least in the Table of contents, you would have noticed that this particular subject you have opened here, has been treated in many other threads across the ages.I think reading those would have been a good start.

@Valeryi:I really don't know what is your problem with me, I really don't know why you threaten me with -QP 2 times now and i really don't understand what do you want from me in fact.I can bring you at least 10 exemples in this forum alone, where newbies have been bashed over the ages and you did nothing.Now i gave this guy some advices, and even some game tips(for exemple using the poor man's town portal instead of building 2 castle gates with inferno.Btw, friend of gunnar, if you are interested, the poor man's town portal means that you can bring your main hero who is far away from home, back to your castle, in one turn with all his troops, without using the town portal spell.To do that, you create a chain of heroes, give the army from your main hero to another, then continue with all your chain of heroes until your army arrives in castle.Then simply attack the nearest monster stack on the map with the main hero, retreat and re hire him in castle.Voila now you have both your hero and troops ready to defend your castle even if you were 7 days from it ).
I haven't told anyone that they should stop crying like a little baby. I sensed that the litle noobie here was feeling attacked so i thought: if my advices aren't needed, then im out.So that was the end of it for me at least.I tried to feed him some info , but he refused and started whining here.So i said: c ya (no point in me losing time with him).By the time you stepped in, all was over already, so in a way if now i disrespect him it's your fault, because if u didn't interviene, i would never have said another word to him, because it wasn't worth it.
But now, i have to write a novel at 4 am in the  morning, after 11 hours drive, so that i can prove to you a point and so that i can find out what is your problem actually.
The library is a game strategy forum. People gain or lose respect based on the quality of their posting.I think this is similar for the rest of this message board.So how can i respect his gaming skill if he has none? How can i respect him as a valuable poster in matters of tactics like wub, xarfax or angel if he has nothing valuable to say regarding that issue?
What im most annoyed about though, is that me and Conan have worked 2 or 3 weeks to make links to most of the good threads in the library and i have also made some reviews for longer threads so that newcomers can acces the information they need without searching 19 pages.It seems we have lost our time in vain because no one bothers to read these days.And you, as admin of tis site, instead of encouraging the quality,you encourage ignorance towards the work of some dedicated persons(like me).

As i said in my first post, i don't understand why you are threatening me with penalties as i didn't do nothing wrong.I just doubt this guy's gaming skills.So i have the right to say it to his face. Now if i would have said: "You are a stupid noob, you don't know ****, get the **** out of here"  then u had a point,but instead i just gave him some sugestions and even some help for his future games.If you can't see my good intentions in my writing, feel free to put your threats in practice, or else let me be.

peace

FriendOfGunnar
Quote:
Quote:
My opinion about persons who are new to the game is that first they should read and then when they discover something new and interesting, he should post it here, so that he adds a small contribution to this enciclopedia.


Before I created this thread I wanted to check if there was duplicates.  There was plenty of "List your favourite faction" threads.  My intention was to create a thread where people listed what they thought was the strongest thread compared to what they considered their favourite. (Not only that almost all of the postings were by people who aren't here any more--I wanted to see what the current HC members were thinking).  And so far the only people that have done that in this verbal miasma have been me and TNT.  I believe your fixation on adding a small contribution to the encylopedia distracts from one of the main functions of forums, which is for enthusiasts to come and talk about their enthusiasms.  I wouldn't have minded at all if this thread eventually ended up in VW because all I was intending on was casual discourse, not in adding a new book to your library.

guitarguy
Quote:
Tigris, I thought I'd share some thoughts that will hopefully help you understand some things in this time.

So you gave some helpful advice to FriendOfGunnar; that's fine. Nothing bad about that. But consider your tone and the way you addressed the problem. It didn't seem like a particularly encouraging message for FriendOfGunnar. I've walked in his footsteps before, so I'm very familiar with how it feels to give what others call "bad advice".

Apparently, Val stepped in to halt what looked like a potential member-bashing. Something you said wasn't very nice to FriendOfGunnar, since it suggested that he wasn't a good player. The post(s) were deleted, so I cannot refer back to them. However, I've been drawn to something you wrote after the fact. This, in itself, pertains to the issue:

Quote:
Honestly, i don't see the point of a person who has a limited, not to say equal to zero gaming experience, other than beating the computer in single player, who is comming to a message board, picks up the forum dedicated to game tactics, and starts sharing out of his extensive experience.

If this was directed at me, I'd feel a little hurt. I mean, who wants to hear that their skills amount to basically nothing? There are better ways to communicate besides using condescending talk. For me, personally, I try to hold back any wording that may be potentially offensive to the person in question. Sometimes it's just better to skip the verbal acknowledgement of a person's skill level and say: "Look, you might want to try looking at things a different way." Things needn't become unpleasantly personal over a matter like this. Openly addressing somebody's weak points in a blunt manner only serves to exacerbate the problem.

As in RL situations, what comes out of our mouths can often be misconstrued and cause ill feelings between people. You might say something without intending to cause somebody damage, yet damage is still done. You don't necessarily need to call the person a swear word to make him/her feel bad; it could be a variety of things. It can be a sticky mess to resolve, so it should be in everybody's best interest to avoid such situations if at all possible. The best way to go about it is by thinking about what you're going to say to someone before you say it. If I say this, could somebody take offense? Should I say something else? Putting yourself in the other person's shoes might also help. It might sound a little dumb for me to bring this up, but I think this is worth mentioning.

Since the above quote could be potentially insulting to whoever it's directed at, it's understandable why Val might get on your case. If you were to really examine what you said to FriendOfGunnar and give it some honest thought, you might see why Val found your posts slightly offensive. Just consider your tone:

Quote:
So how can i respect his gaming skill if he has none? How can i respect him as a valuable poster in matters of tactics like wub, xarfax or angel if he has nothing valuable to say regarding that issue?

It's not a very harmonious way to go about the situation. I believe I can safely guess that FriendOfGunnar wasn't too encouraged by those words you used. As with the previous quote, I wouldn't have been too happy if the above was directed at me.

And another thought of mine. I think a member has just as much freedom to post about singleplayer on this forum as he/she can about multiplayer. It's easy to get carried away in thinking that online play is the only aspect of Heroes that truly matters, and it looks like a lot of members think like this. Let's just face it: not every Heroes player will fully immerse him/herself in the realm of multiplayer. So if that's the case, does that mean he/she should be barred from posting his/her opinions on this site? I'd hope not.

Perhaps FriendOfGunnar could've looked longer and harder for proper Library threads before he posted. Perhaps he could've done a lot of other things as well. In that situation, of course, it's best to be encouraging to him and not shoot him down. Just as newer members need to make an effort to adjust to HC, the rest of us need to make an effort to tolerate and accept them. Everyone makes mistakes and not everyone will be on the same page as one another.

Val took action to make sure this thread didn't slide into a hostile position. I'm sure his -QP warning goes out to anyone who said something negative. Even if he addressed you personally, Tigris, I think it holds the same weight for everybody else. I highly doubt Val would put you on the spot for some outside reason.

I don't know whether or not my post will be helpful to you, but I hope you can see where I'm coming from. I'm sorry to see you upset and at odds with Val. I regret not being a very good intermediary; I simply had to post my thoughts in hopes that a common understanding could be reached.

-Guitarguy

tigris
Quote:
i see where you are coming from GG.

What i don't see i why u are trying to get my words out of the context.You have quoted me and bolded the paragraph saying that this guy has next to 0 gaming experience, but you completely ignored that imidially after that i have added, other than single player.So techinically, i said the truth and he admitted it himself.
Also u quoted me saying "how can i respect his gaming skill if he has none?" outside the context it really looks like an offense.
but if you took the trouble to read the whole post you could notice that 2 rows above i said:
Quote:

The library is a game strategy forum. People gain or lose respect based on the quality of their posting.

Let's make a pol and ask every member of HC who has some gaming experience in tourneys or is much or less related to playing heroes.Ask  them what do you think the value of the first post in this thread is tactic wise.

Quote:

Apparently, Val stepped in to halt what looked like a potential member-bashing.

As i said in my last post, my buiseness with him was over before val steped in and i made it very clear in my post towards him.So i don't see where the potential noob bashing comes into play as i already said c ya to him.

anyways i think his own last sentence sumarises the state of facts here:

Quote:
I wouldn't have minded at all if this thread eventually ended up in VW because all I was intending on was casual discourse, not in adding a new book to your library.[/qoute]

proves my point exactly
this is my last post in this thread.I already lost enough time with this non-sense


Valeriy
Quote:
This forum is for everyone, experienced strategist, multi-player, single player, or a useless player. Anyone can post a thread of any strategic quality (of course if it's absolutely unrelated it will go to VW). And discrimination (things that can offend people when read) will be dealt with. Whether a comment is offensive is judged by myself or a moderator who is cleaning the thread in question.

However, if you are an author of a thread that is dedicated to high quality multiplayer strategy, and an inexperienced person starts repeatedly posting in your thread, killing it and sabotaging your thread's quality, that is also a case to ask me or a moderator to clean your thread, and we'll be asking the newcomer to respect the rules of your thread. Such rules can only apply to your own threads, not to the Library forum at large.

Xarfax111
Quote:
I totally agree with Tigris and cant agree more. Some month ago Angelito made a good example/metapher to see this "board as a party" and "how would you feel, if your were new to a party and peeps start picking on you".

Im totally with this metapher, but my conclusion is else. Lets see you like breakdance (heroes) and music. Youve heard tons over the years and trained it at home (offline) doin the "ice ice baby" (compspankin) over the years.

Now they want to show how good they are, cause they think they are the greatest in doin the ice babe. They jump right into a breakdance pro party (Library), without lookin around seeing whats goin on. Go to the turntables, put away all the good stuff putting on VANILLA ICE (noobish advices) as he is da Best.

Now he is the only one on the danceflor and think hes doin well cause he gets attention, while the party members hardly avoid to start to vomit. Even if politely asked he wont stop dancing the ice baby shuffle (maybe he puts in some HAMMERTIME from time to time)...NO furthermore he insisted that all around have no idea about what they talk and he keeps on dancin (or plays the guitarm).

AND the BEST THING is that the DJ doesnt change the music, even if the blood is already coming out of the ears. DJ says: Please be gentle with him, please dont tell him that he cant breakdance, heeees sooooo neeew and he would cry if he loooses this new buddy.

But also some exceptions are there...talented new dancer come, before they try to show some tricks, they look around and see how the party is goin, which tricks are there and maybe he gets inspired. And as soons as he gets familiar with the scene he tries to contribute to this great breakdance. AND GUESS WHAT THOSE DUDES DONT ACT LIKE ASHOLES AND NEVER WOULD BE CALLED A NOOBIE. PERIOD.

Give me a -QP if u feel insulted.

Valeriy
Quote:
Xar, I think your logic is correct, but at a dance party there's plenty of space for everyone to dance. There's a circle of dance pros and in another part of the room there are dancers of different style and experience. Do the pro dancers go around the entire dance hall and tell everyone off for not dancing properly? Don't think so. Your logic applies to your threads. Other people can have their own threads of their own style. You don't have to go into that part of the room.

LegendMaker
Quote:
In THAT order.

To my despise the original "flamefest" was deleted before I had a chance to read it and forge myself an opinion on it.

However, I've read the whole "cleaned" thread in its entirety. Most of the debate / conflict here is so familiar that I barely believe it's STILL not settled.

It's neither specific to this thread, nor to the Library, nor to HC, nor to Heroes, nor even to video games... ****, it's not even specific to games !!!

It's a common rule in LIFE !

When you are the ONLY, you will ALWAYS also be the BEST.

If the only survivor after the Apocalypse is a BLIND, that will NOT keep him/her from having the BEST sight in the world !

In my most humble opinion, there is no such thing as "Single Players". That would imply that there are specific skills or tactics required for playing against the AI. Ones that said "single players" would have developed more and better than "Online Players", since they have more "experience" because they play exclusively by themselves vs the computer...

Truth be said, the other way around is absolutely true, but it doesn't work both ways.

It IS MATHEMATICAL :

For ANY "single player", the BEST opponent they EVER faced was an AI.

Because what defines them is that they play ONLY the AI.

For ANY "online player" with an AVERAGE level of experience, the AI is a mere nuisance.

Because they ROUTINELY defeat the AI in ANY game they play ("fighting the map"). And that's far from being a difficulty for them.

Let's do the maths good and proper :

IF A > B and B > C THEN A > C !

You want proof ? Be my guest ! Put any number of good "online players", give them the "Hall of Fame" of the BEST "single player" and ask them to play some games "solo style" and surpass his/her results.

Mathematically, if the MORE you ever did is the LESS someone else can do, then that person is a LOT more skilled than you.

Legendary Period.

FriendOfGunnar
Quote:
What is it about playing MP that turns people into such total snobs?  I created this thread by posting my own opinions, and then asking other people to post their opinions also. (look at the thread's title if you don't believe it).  Not once did I claim my opinions to be better.  (and you can't even misinterpret me after I added the edits)

I think the main page subtitle should be changed to:
Library of Enlightenment
HOMM 1-3, MM: strategy, trivia, fiction, MP snobs

mod note This thread has become such a complete mess I recommend it for immediate termination.

tigris
Quote:
Quote:
What is it about playing MP that turns people into such total snobs?  


lol Lil noob, don't mock what u don't understand.
first and foremost, the snob one is really u.
Quote:
Post them both here, in the same (mod note: I wanted to include both type of lists in the thread. If this is still redundant you can go ahead and kill me)

By this statement, you said yourself that you want to hear comentaries regarding your post, even if they aren't positive.So why whine like a silly foo now?

Quote:

wouldn't have minded at all if this thread eventually ended up in VW because all I was intending on was casual discourse, not in adding a new book to your library.


What i can suggest to you, lil Noobie, is to go do a casting session for your friends  LG and LR down in the VW onto your succesful saga and leave us clean our snob laundry in our library.

I think the main page subtitle should be changed to:
Library of Enlightenment
HOMM 1-3, MM: strategy, trivia, fiction, MP snobs





how rude !

(penalty applied)

LegendMaker
Quote:
The AI can't adapt. It plays exactly the same ALWAYS.

Whatever technique that fools the AI ONCE will fool it FOREVER. So, after many games against the AI, you will know EXACTLY what will and what won't work against it.

There are no suprises.

And again that is true for just ANY game, not just Heroes !

For instance, try that little game. It's a table tennis fairly simple game. When I'm bored and don't have enough time to play Heroes, I find it relaxing to play that ping pong game.

There are 3 AI players available. It's been a long time since ANY of them has scored even ONE point against me. So, I'd assume that I was HOT STUFF in that game.

Truth is I didn't even know what that game was all about. Until I tried it against fellow HUMANS. The first game I've played online, I tried all my socalled witty AI-fooling techniques... to NO EFFECT AT ALL.

I got my **** kicked 10 times in a row !

Because :

HUMANS CAN AND WILL ADAPT. That's what DEFINES them !

Whatever technique that fools a human player once won't work as well the second time you try it. Because the human has a MEMORY and a BRAIN. So, chances are if the guy you fooled once with a particular trick fights you again... He will be AWARE of that trick.

So much for your your illusions, noob boy.

Now if stating the obvious truth makes me a snob in your eyes, search that word in the dictionnary please.

Feel free to do a screen capture of your Hall of Fame as a "single player" and post it here and/or send it to me. I'm bored enough and I want the truth to shine bad enough to actually waste a few hours proving you my point.

Legend.

Valeriy
Quote:
Penalty applied as warned earlier. If your gaming skill does not involve self-control I advise staying away from threads posted by people who you are annoyed by.

tigris
Quote:
Hahahaha what a toss

Tell me valeryi in what way did i insult the lil newbie?

He called me a snob, i demonstrated he is one!

What is the difference between his posting and mine?
Ohh i forgot..im the big bad wolf and he is the poor lamb screaming and feeling attacked.
This is a discussion board so opinions are discussed. The lil noob said it himself: if my posting seems redundant feel free to express ur discontent.which i did.Now he starts whining and ur jumping to the rescue.

By this masquarade ur doing here u only prove to me you are a snob aswell.Bigger than me, bigger that this lil foonoob here.U pretend ur actions  are motivated by the will to equality.

Well he provoked me and called me  a snob. What have i done to him? I responded in the same manner. So where is the equality?
As a wise guy said these days on GS looby, i reckon u share his newbish opinion, that's why u feel so attacked by my posting lol.

Anyways, i would be a snob indead to say i dun give a **** about ur penalty, because i have worked hard for my QP's and haven't got any of them butkissing you or anyone for that matter, nor did i got those for telling jokes like some proeminents members here have.I got those Qp's by hours of testing facts of the game. This is why i consider this penalty as a toss because by that u deleted a part of my work.
Anyways, if im to look back i would say i was a fool to answer to you in the first place when you deleted my posts originally.

In my country we have a saying: Don't try to compete with a foo because his mind is rested.

Ok i learned my lesson now, c ya around

@edit: and btw Valeryi, thanks for trying to reason with me and understand where im comming from on IM.I'm sure u undestood the situation just right, as a fair judge should

(penalty applied)

LegendMaker
Quote:
Quote:
How to Deal with Offences
If someone is foolish enough to seriously insult you, (...) report the insult to one of the moderators, sit back and enjoy watching the offender be dealt with.
Okay, Val. I DO feel offended by FoG daring to call me a "snob". He didn't even say a word about my points. My bet is he didn't even read it.

Snobs are hypocrites who pretend you don't exist and simply ignore you if you are not one of them.

I actually gave that guy some attention and explained him some valuable FACTS.

And he calls me a "SNOB" for it.

That is not only the exact opposite of the truth, that's highly insulting and I report it to your wise arbitrater's attention.

Now, I'd like to "sit back and enjoy watching the offender be dealt with". The offender, not one of the victims of his noobish offense.

Quote:
If somebody says something that you do not like, don't put down the person, instead discuss what they've said. So instead of saying "you are stupid" (insult), try "I disagree with your idea because ..." (discussion).
That's precisely what I did in both of my previous posts in this thread. That's what Xarfax did in his brilliant breakdance metaphor post, and by all means it's what Tig did also.

Nobody has put that person down (FoG). He lacked vital information about the game and pretended to be eager to learn (in his original post). We only gave him some facts and gave him a chance to learn.

The one who did attack persons here was FoG. And also the only one in this thread who didn't actually debate.

Well, that makes two with you, Val. But you can't get penalties. You instead can give them.

Lemmy wrote some thoughtful song that I advise you give a listen to, Val :

"Just cause you got the power, that don't mean you have the right."

Legendary Offense Report.

Valeriy
Quote:
Tigris, it is too bad that you don't see how your comments are insulting. Your quality posts don't give you a right to act like a snob, which you did by posting first in this thread and calling FOG a little girl, etc.

I am disappointed that players egos, in some cases, seem to grow proportionally to their online gaming experience, and that their tolerance of other players in other threads drops below zero.

And tigris, I don't appreciate the good tactics you posted on this forum, I have something personal against you, I don't care if this forum degrades, what else are you going to make up?

A person like you should have enough maturity to let other people be and have their own threads, and not put your expert opinion in condescending manner. Shameful thing is that you've jumped into this thread first and started the namecalling and now you act like your badmouthing is all FoG's fault.

Penalty applied for more direct insults.

Legendmaker, I hope you are aware that some offensive posts at the beginning of this thread have been deleted probably before you read them. I also didn't see where you were directly called a snob.

I'm also cleaning this thread of posts that add nothing to the thread topic or to discussion about game experience discrimination.

tigris
Quote:
Damn i knew changing my avatar to Gurnisson will get me in troubles.Now everybody mistakes me for Andi Angelslayer and -QP's start flying lmaoo.

Nm Val, im not mature enough to understand ur reasoning and excesive online gaming has turned me into a vegetable.Maybe i exagerated with my remarks, but the fact remains,before u even seen this thread, i ended my matters with FoG .SO FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, THE MATTER WAS CLOSED BEFORE U ARRIVED.U started threatening me with penalties even though i made it clear (in my posts which u deleted) that i don't plan to say nothing more to him.I might be a hotheaded fool, but i interpreted ur threats like a provocation towards me so i responded as i could. Next, the lil noob, feeling he is protected by the BIG BOSS started getting smart again.Then u started "making justice".
I tell u a thing about your justice: it's pathetic.Ur attention wasn't needed in the first place here because the conflict between me and FoG was over before u got here.If u were trying to make an exemple about freedom of speech i guess im a good didactic material. I think ur point is very clear.

Now give me another QP and make a complete fool of yourself...again.

now give me another -QP and make a complete fool of yourself lol.

Xarfax111
Quote:
Tigris please stop posting in here. Its not worth the trouble...let the noobie havin fun to unpenalized flame on you, callin you a snob or elitist. Who cares?

You know that they spank the comp. So what?

PS: Solmyr is da BEST!

LegendMaker
Quote:
... Xarfax, I'm in LOVE with you !

Legendary gay joke (but i couldn't help myself.. man you don't just ROCK, you RULE ! I humbly bow before THY MIGHT ! )

PS : Don't you get the wrong ideas, ladies I'm still straight ! Lmfao @ Russ

PPS : Nope, he ain't. Actually, Gayfriendly, Inferno's lesser known Eagle Eye specialist IS da Bomb ! And he's starting with such usefull skills as Mysticism, to boot ! Roflmmfao

csarmi
Quote:
Tigris, I think your penalty is well deserved. I think I am pretty neutral on the matter, and from what I see, all you do here [this thread] is flaming nonsense. You are being arrogant, sound angry with a holier-than-thou attitude. If you got problems, it's not us to take it out on. If anything is disturbing you right now, I wish you would get over it. I am really disappointed in you.

And remember, it has nothing to do with the fact that you are right. That simply does not show behind your attitude. Even if you are right all way, it still does not matter.

As for others, I see some really good posts here like Xarfax's dance party or Legendmaker's philosophical stuff. So I think it would be a waste to close this topic.

angelito
Quote:
I lost my internet connection again on saturday and was not able to follow HC for 2 days. Now iīm at work and can go online again...and what do i see???

@tigris
Lucian, we had a short conversation on friday about this thread here, and i told ya to get over it and donīt get on that train again. I told ya, we are expecting many more members here coz of the upcoming Heroes V, and therefor we have to watch out out we talk to new members. Thatīs why u got that warning from Val. It was a warning at that point...nothing else.
You said "OK angel, u r right...i will let it be..".
But u decided to act different...

I can only say it again and again and again:
Itīs not what u tell them newbies, itīs how you talk to them. The sense of your postings towards FoG is 100% correct (in my eyes), only the way u talk is not correct. And i know u pretty well now from many conversations in the zone, on GS and on MSN. You can do waaayyy better. This is just not you!
I assume u just had a bad weekend, whatever reasons there have been, i know your style is different normaly.

@Xarfax
I see your point and nearly agree, but i would change one main thing. The library is a big house with more than 1 disco. You can enter this house and listen to the music you like. You enter one of the discos and see the kiddies dancing like members of the WWF (world wrestling federation). Now u can either (1)laugh out like hell and leave to another room, u can (2)walk in and show them how dancing really looks like, u can (3)walk in, kick everyones back, tell them they look like idio** and tell them to watch the movie "Staying alive" to see how it really works, or u can (4)just leave the room without doing anything but looking for a room in that house where they play and dance the music YOU like.
Why do you (not refered to you mostly, but to other vets aswell) nearly ALWAYS chose solution (3)??

Every "real" library will have good books and bad books. Many visitors will read the good books, and some will read the bad ones. You can show them "bad book lovers" how much better the good books are, but it will ALWAYS be his/her decision either to try out the good books, or stay with the bad ones.

I hardly believe this kind of discussion will ever end. As long as we "feel the force to react" on a library topic or a library post made by a "newbie" the way it ran this time, we will always have it going like this thread here.
Just try to leave threads alone you donīt agree with and where u r not sure to stay calm in your answers. Thatīs the easiest way to prevent such quarrels.

I forgot one more side note though...

@FriendofGunnar
You may felt insulted by some posts here, but that wonīt give u the right to judge ALL "online-players" as snobs. Talk directly to the poster(s) of that specific posts, but donīt lump together all others.
Nevertheless i dislike the circumscription "snob" for any member who just wants to give advices for the improvement of your gaming skills.
So please choose your words better next time and we prolly all get along with that much easier.

Arangar
Quote:
Don't worry about the complaints FoG. Just as I think your "snob" comment was not directed at anyone in particular, the "noob" part (which should have been <multiplayer -with specific rules and restrictions type of- noob> was just a typical friendly toss from an online player that has encountered this type of scenario many times before. It's the same old thing: "Game?"  "I'm the bestest bestest player in the world! I beat all campaigns on impossible!"

It gets old, and it gets old fast. Hopefully we will have learned from this episode, and next time the "heated" online player will just write a funny comment and laugh, remember how he was back in the days when he first appeared online - his first baby steps into the wonderful world of heroes

The best way to solve this issue: Play online and beat them all on their own turf. (just make sure you take the time to learn the online tricks first) Who knows, it might even be enjoyable for you

Nidhgrin
Quote:
1. I think FoG didn't create the best opening thread possible, but it has happened with new members before so I'm a bit surprised about the heated reactions...  I hope people will give the guy a break for you were all new once, right?

2. Tigris was way out of line with his comments and asked for those two -QP, which doesn't necessarily mean he deserved them.

3. You can settle any conflict waving that admin sword Valeriy, but it doesn't improve your credibility.  I've seen this before and whether you believe it or not, in my opinion your intervention provoked tigris into doing what he did, even though you didn't mean to.


Period.

____________
You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com

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Valeriy
Valeriy

Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
posted March 07, 2006 01:09 AM
Edited by Valeriy on 6 Mar 2006

A few clarifications from what people asked.

Considering whether a person contributed to the forum when giving penalties:

The rules should apply equally to everyone. People who are contributors of HC are the ones who are more familiar with the rules, because they have been here for a longer time. Since they know the rules, their breaches are more likely to be deliberate. If it really wasn't deliberate, they stop after a warning/reminder is posted. In this case such a warning was posted, penalties were given to breaches that happened after the warning.

Someone who has done positive things for the board does not get a right to be abusive to other people. Penalties do not say that their previous contribution is not valued. Penalties say that their current actions (breaches of the rules) are not acceptable.

If a newcomer is abusive, the same warning followed by penalty approach will apply. We might cut newcomers a little more slack because they haven't been here long and are not as familiar with the rules as long-time members, but generally they will get the same treatment.

Reversing penalties:

This will not be done as it gives everyone a clear message that you can be abusive, break the rules, and then get away with it.

The rules are meant to be like a rake - eveyone knows where the rake is, and that stepping on it causes the stick to hit the face. The rake doesn't care who stepped on it, it's a simple action - reaction machine.

Penalties to one side:

In this incident tigris came in to FriendOfGunnar's thread, and started insulting FOG, seemingly offended by the lack of FOG's gaming experience. Initial insults were deleted. After several insults in his address FOG responded with a comment of "MP snobs" to no one person in particular. Given the non-specific nature of his "comeback" it will not earn him a penalty.

Tolerance for people's ego and temper:

None will be given. Fragile egos, having a bad day, wanting to maintain a high standard of the forum strategy, etc may all be valid and fair motivations, but they will not serve as an excuse and will not allow anyone to get away with abusing other people. There are plenty of positive ways to express good intentions.

To "the opposition":

Everyone knows where the rake is and everyone knows what happens when it is stepped on.

I've invested hundreds of hours of my time into creating and maintaining this forum (and so have the moderators) and my aim is for it to follow standards which are outlined in the code of conduct, best summarised by the word "respect". It really is a crime for me to run this free service for you and to not do so in a way that pleases your whims, lol
____________
You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com

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Lich_King
Lich_King


Honorable
Supreme Hero
posted March 07, 2006 11:07 AM
Edited by Lich_King on 7 Mar 2006

Weeee.. a fight

Oh my oh my... quit a bit and look how many whiners appear... not good not good...
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