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| Thread: Power or Knowlege |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 09, 2007 09:10 PM |
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I have allways liked Power more than Knowlage when Knowlage is only primary skill that can become useless in very high numbers. Sorceress in Heroes II and Rangers in HV does have sometimes bit too mutch Knowlage what they don't necessary need. 20+ Knowlage is a waste.
In Heroes III where you can select Might hero for every fanction the Knowlage becomes mutch important. You don't really need great spell power when there are spells like: Haste, Slow, Blind, Berserk, Town Portal, Clone, Prayer, Fly and DD! All Might hero needs is some Magic Schools and Knowlage/mana to cast those spells.
So Knowlage is better for might heroes. If your magic book is filled whit spells like Resurrection\Animate\Sacrifice or even Implosion you might wanna have some power tough. There is still good change to get some great 'might spells' in the game.
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted April 09, 2007 10:28 PM |
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I agree that Knowledge suits might heroes better. Overall, I pick Power and don't look back. You can expand both with artifacts, but Knowledge can be expanded by Intelligence. Power has no such equivalent.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 09, 2007 10:30 PM |
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But Intelligence uses 1 of your 8 secondary skill slots....which is a waste..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted April 10, 2007 04:47 AM |
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Don't you ever get tired of the whole "if it ain't might, it ain't right?" You are far too helpful a member and good a player to be party to such closed-mindedness and perpetual disruption of other people ENJOYING a video game.
Any game I've played, Expert Intelligence was what made the difference between a good hero and one that can DD four times a day, waltz in and conquer armies far greater than their own thanks to powerful magics and a commitment to spell power. Some might not consider that a waste and the game wouldn't be so fun if there was only one way to do everything.
Though it did just occur to me that spells like Expert Berserk don't care what Power you are.
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pomo
Famous Hero
The lone peasant
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posted April 10, 2007 05:50 AM |
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Why get tired of the truth?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 10, 2007 10:38 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 10:39, 10 Apr 2007.
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Quote:
Don't you ever get tired of the whole "if it ain't might, it ain't right?" You are far too helpful a member and good a player to be party to such closed-mindedness and perpetual disruption of other people ENJOYING a video game...
How could I explain so you will finally get the IDEA behind all that?
Let me try:
What would you prefer:
- 2 moral arties and 1 visit on a moral boosting map object
or
- expert leadership
- expert wisdom + a pandoras box with all spells
or
- all 4 tomes of magic
- knowlegde 20 + intelligence
or
- knowledge 20 + mana vortex and/or expert townportal
How often do u cast expert berzerk in a battle? (multiplayer, not vs comp at month 5!)
What spellpower do you think a might hero will have week 5?
The problem most of the single player people have is, the think might heroes are ONLY might related. Of course a might hero can get artefatcs to boost his "magic" stats (knowledge + power). Of course a magic hero can get artefacts to boost his "might" stats. The difference is: The skills which boost your might abilities (offence, armorer, artillery.....maybe archery, tactics) can't be replaced by artefacts. Most of the magic abilities can (tomes, orbs, mana arties etc...).
A might hero will have 200 spellpoints aswell in month 2, which makes him able to use DD 4 times and a townportal in 1 turn. But the truth is: He will have his 200 spellpoints EARLIER than the magic hero in about 85% of all cases. Just create a random map and save it. Then play it with a magic hero, and after that with a might.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted April 10, 2007 05:39 PM |
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Quote:
How often do u cast expert berzerk in a battle? (multiplayer, not vs comp at month 5!)
It's when you make statements like that that your closed-mindedness shines through.
To answer your lobsided question, I cast expert berserk in every battle after I learn it in about X% of my games. X being the percentage it pops up in one form or another, and is likely to be the same for all players. It's a VERY handy way of pulling 3-4 of your opponents stacks out of the battle altogether. And Expert Fire can be had by any hero as early as level 4. 5 months? Don't think I've ever even HEARD of a game lasting that long.
Fact remains that what is and is not a worthwhile secondary skill is based on any number of circumstances, with player taste for the same being one of them. You cannot make such a black and white statement on the topic of personal taste. Are you familiar with the phrase there's no accounting for taste?
The topic is knowledge or power and asks for personal taste. That one can acquire Intelligence is as good a reason as any to favor Power. That's my opinion. I can have that if I'd like
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 10, 2007 08:00 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 20:05, 10 Apr 2007.
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Quote:
..That's my opinion. I can have that if I'd like
True.
Difference is: I never called ya "small minded" or similar when I posted MY opinion. Like: "Intelligence is a waste of skill slot".period. Nothing personal about you, right?
And btw...I didn't ask you how often u cast "berzerk" in your GAME. I asked how often in ONE battle. 16-20 spellpoints a spell. Just think how many spellpoints you use in 1 battle. And then think of the usefullness of intelligence. That's all.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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waffen
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 11, 2007 12:47 PM |
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I try to have both balanced, so I have enough spellpoints for some mass spells and enough spellpower for some lightning bolt if I need to finish small stack.
Angelito, your opinion is that skills, which could be replaced by arties, better not to choose?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 11, 2007 01:52 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 15:13, 11 Apr 2007.
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Quote:
Angelito, your opinion is that skills, which could be replaced by arties, better not to choose?
Not in general, but there are some abilities where you couldn't have enough of the benefits it gives to your hero.
Example:
Offense could be "replaced" by attack skill (each attack skill raises your damage by 5%, if att. is higher than opp. defense). But of course it is better, the higher your attack is. So I chose offense and attack skill.
Armorer is the same thing. Reduces damage, like every defense point does. The more the better.
Logistics is without a doubt more usefull the more u have of it. So even if I have boots, gloves, stables visited and some other locations visited, I would still love to have expert logistics on my main, coz u really can use all the movement every day.
Leadership and Luck is something that can be completely "replaced" by artefact(s). Pendant of Courage for example is one artefact which replaces both skills, coz u only can have +3 of each skill, every aditional bonus wouldn't count. On the other hand, both skills could be neutralized very easily with 2 single artefacts (Spirit of Op. and Hourglas). Just not reliable enough to block 2 slots on main.
Archery depends on town u chose. If u got 2 shooters at least, it is worth. Expert archery raises damage by 50%, while all 3 artefatcs together raise it by 30%.
Intelligence can either be "replaced" by a mana vortex, a magic spring or just by enough knowlegde.
Sorcery could be "replaced" by one of the 4 orbs.
Wisdom could be "replaced" by tomes or scrolls.
So as u can see, you have many possibilities to chose artefacts instead of skills. Of course you won't find all these artefacts in every game. But u also won't get all the good secondary skills offered in every game on your main. So u chose them wisely, and try to develop the important ones to expert level as soon as possible. So sometimes u just have to decided between:
- advanced earth or basic wisdom
- advanced logistics or basic resistance
- advanced air or basic intelligence
The good skills which can't be replaced by artefacts and still help ya every day / every fight should be prefered over other good skills, resp. other average skills.
In my humble opinion that is......
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 11, 2007 05:22 PM |
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Edited by Ecoris at 17:24, 11 Apr 2007.
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Well, you say that offense could be replaced by higher attack skill, but that you'd rather have both. That makes perfect sense and I agree.
But the fact that sorcery can be replaced by orbs is just the same; it's better to have both. (In fact the total bonus would be greater than 15% + 50%, it would be 72.5%, unlike bonuses to creature damage which are just added).
But I would not pick sorcery myself while I would always want offense. The difference is that sorcery gives a way too low bonus. I think there are several threads discussing the usefulness of sorcery and it's always mentioned that you may only cast one spell per round anyway. This is a very important point. Another one is that sorcery requires a high spell power to have any significant effect (and good spells to cast); offense works all by itself; it only needs creatures to work.
So as I see it sorcery can't be replaced like leadership or luck could; it's just a waste of a skill slot.
And about intelligence: It's a 'sitting duck' if you never need those extra spell points. How many times will those spell points be better than some other secondary skill at expert level?
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted April 11, 2007 07:21 PM |
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I usually prefer knowledge to power specially as it helps across the adventure map, i try to get atleast 5 to knowledge before thinkin about going for power, unless ofcourse im arming a superscout hero like cielle and luna.
I'd rather have the opportunity cast in more battles rather than going for raw damage as in the later stages of the game u can boost ur power with arties.
For the record i do agree with dirk on saving secondary skills for more important things than intelligence or leadership if i can achieve the same goal through arties and other stat modifiers.
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generaltharkus
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 12, 2007 05:34 AM |
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seems that while people say might > magic, it's important to realize that certain magic combinations can be incredible, and sometimes destroy might. It is impossible to just say that one is better than the other, because if your mighty units destroy most of mine, and I can resurrect (or better yet, animate dead) them, I can keep taking your hits. It depends on the situation in full.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted April 12, 2007 06:37 AM |
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I've had over 1000 spell points before and lost the fight because I ran out. It all depends on the map and situation which one is better.
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 12, 2007 10:49 AM |
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1000 with intelligence, I assume? Well without intelligence you would have had some other skill instead, it's quite hypothetical, but perhaps some other skill would have made the difference.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 12, 2007 10:59 AM |
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Quote:
because if your mighty units destroy most of mine, and I can resurrect (or better yet, animate dead) them, I can keep taking your hits...
While you can only resurrect ONE stack each turn, I can hit you with ALL my stacks each turn. And when I killed 1 of your stacks, I place 1 unit of mine on the corpse of your destroyed unit, and this prevents you from resurrecting or animating..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted April 12, 2007 11:02 AM |
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Well my opinion is that I would choose *please don't flame me  *, knowledge.
Why?
Because without knowledge then Power becomes useless, you need the Knowledge in order to cast spells, and Spell Power makes Spells more effective and everything, so I would have to choose Knowledge over Power.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted April 12, 2007 11:14 AM |
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<<I place 1 unit of mine on the corpse of your destroyed unit, and this prevents you from resurrecting or animating>>
Nice in theory, but in practice????? Do you happen to have a stack with only a couple units left...and is it within reach of the dead stack? Or are you going to use a big stack for this purpose?
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted April 12, 2007 11:16 AM |
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Both important.
Spell power increases your magic potential.
You cant use much of your potential if you dont even have enough knowledge .
Makes more sense then I thought 
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Dreaming of a Better World
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 12, 2007 01:28 PM |
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I agree with William. His point is accurate. (Acus is nonesense)If you are out of spellpoints what good will high spellpower do?
About placing troops on a stack to prevent resurection. It happens now and then in online games and is a usefull tactic. If you can prevent a lvl 7 stack from being resurected with high spellpower its defenetly worth placing any unit over it.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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