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| Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Inferno Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 10 ... 13 14 15 16 17 ... 20 30 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Sargeras
Known Hero
the Fallen
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posted March 05, 2008 12:56 PM |
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I'm still learning inferno but IMO hellfire is ok. It's good to have that extra damage (30% chance... ), but wouldn't take destructive - searing fires just for that, think it's a waste of skills (agreed with okrane).
Enough said, please i need couple advices: are succubus seducers better then mistresses, is seduction superior to chain shot (i'm using mistresses/chain shot and my friends tell me i s*** cause seducers are way better !?! and exactly the same about Nightmare/Hell Stallion (i don't know, i like Frightful Aura and +1 init better  but for them i'm wrong). So what do u prefer and why ? i'm asking for MP...thx
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Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control...
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 05, 2008 02:04 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 14:05, 05 Mar 2008.
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the seduction is very powerful (but the succubus can't act while seducing. I didn't have the choice anyway, since the enemy was using inferno too, mistress would have been useless (except for +1 in ini)
I can't say if the seducer are better than the mistress (I guess they are just different) but they are good.
the hellmare has the searing aura which is insanely powerful (if you have a big stack) I'm not sure how easy (or hard) it is to use it (since the wandering armies were so laughable that I didn't need it) but I think you could do a nice combo by putting the archdemon near the hellmare.
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted March 05, 2008 02:22 PM |
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I'm still learning inferno but IMO hellfire is ok. It's good to have that extra damage (30% chance...), but wouldn't take destructive - searing fires just for that, think it's a waste of skills (agreed with okrane).
Enough said, please i need couple advices: are succubus seducers better then mistresses, is seduction superior to chain shot (i'm using mistresses/chain shot and my friends tell me i s*** cause seducers are way better !?! and exactly the same about Nightmare/Hell Stallion (i don't know, i like Frightful Aura and +1 init better but for them i'm wrong). So what do u prefer and why ? i'm asking for MP...thx
In general seducers are better than succubi mistresses. Their ability allows you to turn much more powerfull stacks against their side, which is great for fighting big powerfull creeps and even vs a human player they do very good. Mistresses are only preferable if fighting units immune to mind spells or that can easily get rid of it, academy faction for instance would have little trouble vs seducers. Otherwise mistresses can be very effective in small numbers with hellfire. Split your succubi in lots of small stacks (like 7 stacks of 1) and watch the fireworks Using this strategy you can deal with hordes of ghosts quite easily
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted March 05, 2008 02:48 PM |
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On creeping:
Creeping on heroic even with early balista and tent is a pain, gates get slaughtered and your tier 1-3 are too fragile to take hits. Moreover you'll face the problem of getting enough ressources for succubi upgrades and hell hounds. And without those you won't be able to take on tougher creeps.
On hard it's quite manageble with gates + mark of the damned and eventually balista support. Tent is the key to take on shooters easily
On Hellfire:
In TotE Hellfire is needed for fast triple balista. In fact it's usually my top priority gating perk. The damage is nothing spectacular though since it's only 10xSP and demon lords usually have low sp... so unless you get decent sp somehow, it won't make much of difference. The most usefull way of using hellfire is with succubi mistresses: their chain shot will be devastating.
Then you still need to learn much about inferno
I have no problem creeping without balista and tent in heroic, you just need the right perk, and all inferno heroes have it (i call it the key perk), and ofc you need to think and plan hard and wisely
Also, gated units get slaughtered? creeps/AI never attack your gated units in ToTE, unless there is no other option for them (example: you block all your real units with your gated units)
Hell fire is decent with searing flames, your 1 imp can deal 180 bonus dmg with 10 SP, even with only 5 SP, it's still very useful
99% inferno players always rely on balista for creeping, that means they're deleb-er
The only thing needed for creeping without balista and tent is think hard and wise, it's just as simple as that
Try randomize your hero choice and play on heroic, then you'll master inferno creeping without war machines
Because triple ballista rarely got by all the others except deleb
Inferno triple ballista fans = deleb fans.
Deleb fans = boring, seriously, there is no variety in it.
I play inferno because i like it, not for winning, i enjoy it as long as it's fun game, and for me, fun doesn't always means win.
If your goal is winning the game, go for triple ballista forever.
First of all I don't play deleb much, though she definitely has the easiest week 1 of all inferno heroes. I tend to play nebiros nowadays.
But let's face it if you have a horde of master gremlins/saboteurs or lots of assasins guarding your wood you're in pretty deep trouble. Even if you defeat them you'll loose at least half your demons doing so. And then your creeping will be seriously crippled.
The difficulty comes from the fact that inferno on week 1 has only melee units to creep with and a bit of magic for backup. So you will have a very hard time avoiding casualties. Sure gates help so does the mark of the damned, but without some kind of ranged support I find it next to impossible to fight armies with lots of hp. Try lots of mino guards without balista or a horde of squires. Again once you get firehounds + succubi mistresses things become really easy.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted March 05, 2008 05:27 PM |
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Okay, this is going to be a long page
I will try to help about inferno.
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Further proof that I suck then I don't know, hordes of tier 3 seem too much for me, especially upgraded bears or hunters
Hunters are to be ignored untill the time is right
Againts bears, ofc you need cerberi and fire hound in heroic, but in hard difficulty, quasit and horned overseer are enough
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I would rather rely on my quasit and cerberus (well, that's quite expensive, but so far I've only played a few games in normal mode (and I may try the hard mode quite soon, because normal mode seems really easy))
btw, I read a lots about firebreather hounds, do everyone choose them? because I would rather use cerberi for their better damage (imo, there are too few situations where the firebreathers may be better)
Fire hounds are better in creeping, againts enemy heroes, it depends on your unit combo, if you use seducer and pit spawns, you will certainly lack of AoE damager, that is when fire hounds come to play
But if you use mistress, especially if you already have expert attack + battle frenzy and hero attack about 20 or more, you can use cerberus, because you already have AoE attacker (succubus mistress), you can add more AoE attacker (fire hounds) or you want to switch for greater damage but smaller AoE (cerberus)
That's it if counting your own style only
If your style is reflecting your enemies and that means you play counter all the way, here is the example, if you face againts enemy heroes that use two big size units that have almost the same or same initiative and speed, you can go for cerberus because even cerberus will almost likely hit two of them for greater damage than fire hounds.
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Endgame:
Reasonable good endgame. Imps will steal enemy’s mana, tackling (partially) his magic capabilities. Gating provides extra troops of the already many. Also u might happen to play first with doggys and nightmares just in time to bump him. Also there won’t be many attacks to the succubus if u cover them. Dark owns against some factions when the enemy has no mana and some units cooperate well. Watch for ur dogs, nightmares and imps, which die quickly. Frenzy + firehounds + TA owns
Consider empathy too, in some situations, empathy is better than TA.
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Soldier's luck will boost hellfire's triggers so it's more likely to pop up
Maybe it's true, try soldier luck with 5 luck, and almost your attack are hellfire
I know it's not supposed to be like that, so maybe this is a bug or it's a true fact.
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I'm still learning inferno but IMO hellfire is ok. It's good to have that extra damage (30% chance...), but wouldn't take destructive - searing fires just for that, think it's a waste of skills (agreed with okrane).
Enough said, please i need couple advices: are succubus seducers better then mistresses, is seduction superior to chain shot (i'm using mistresses/chain shot and my friends tell me i s*** cause seducers are way better !?! and exactly the same about Nightmare/Hell Stallion (i don't know, i like Frightful Aura and +1 init better but for them i'm wrong). So what do u prefer and why ? i'm asking for MP...thx
Again, like i said above, it's totally depends on your play style and your enemy unit combo.
Also consider some artifact, example, if you have a total of -4 morale artifact, which will you choose, nightmare or hell stallion, i personally will choose nightmare, -7 morale is truly a pain.
Sometimes, sorrow can further increase the pain of frightful aura for your enemy (but it can be cleansed), still, sorrow+frightful aura = blind, so if you need blind but doesn't appear in your mage guild, and instead there is sorrow, this trick can do the job.
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First of all I don't play deleb much, though she definitely has the easiest week 1 of all inferno heroes. I tend to play nebiros nowadays.
But let's face it if you have a horde of master gremlins/saboteurs or lots of assasins guarding your wood you're in pretty deep trouble. Even if you defeat them you'll loose at least half your demons doing so. And then your creeping will be seriously crippled.
The difficulty comes from the fact that inferno on week 1 has only melee units to creep with and a bit of magic for backup. So you will have a very hard time avoiding casualties. Sure gates help so does the mark of the damned, but without some kind of ranged support I find it next to impossible to fight armies with lots of hp. Try lots of mino guards without balista or a horde of squires. Again once you get firehounds + succubi mistresses things become really easy
Againts horde of master gremlins/saboteurs, let your demons die, and never use leaper, overseer is much better, especially if you already have eldritch arrow or stone spike
Assasin is not that hard compared to gremlins
It's not impossible for inferno againts tier 3 with lots of hp with only quasit and overseer/leaper (especially in hard mode), except things like hunter, it's even better if they are slow, best if they're slow and have low initiative, bear rider is one of them, they easily fall with only quasit and overseer, unless if their number is horde (which mean in heroic, but it rarely happens that they guard something that is needed asap)
Usually by the time you should fight tier 3, you already have cerberus or fire hounds, even in heroic if you creep and build right.
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted March 05, 2008 07:28 PM |
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First of all I don't play deleb much, though she definitely has the easiest week 1 of all inferno heroes. I tend to play nebiros nowadays.
But let's face it if you have a horde of master gremlins/saboteurs or lots of assasins guarding your wood you're in pretty deep trouble. Even if you defeat them you'll loose at least half your demons doing so. And then your creeping will be seriously crippled.
The difficulty comes from the fact that inferno on week 1 has only melee units to creep with and a bit of magic for backup. So you will have a very hard time avoiding casualties. Sure gates help so does the mark of the damned, but without some kind of ranged support I find it next to impossible to fight armies with lots of hp. Try lots of mino guards without balista or a horde of squires. Again once you get firehounds + succubi mistresses things become really easy
Againts horde of master gremlins/saboteurs, let your demons die, and never use leaper, overseer is much better, especially if you already have eldritch arrow or stone spike
Assasin is not that hard compared to gremlins
It's not impossible for inferno againts tier 3 with lots of hp with only quasit and overseer/leaper (especially in hard mode), except things like hunter, it's even better if they are slow, best if they're slow and have low initiative, bear rider is one of them, they easily fall with only quasit and overseer, unless if their number is horde (which mean in heroic, but it rarely happens that they guard something that is needed asap)
Usually by the time you should fight tier 3, you already have cerberus or fire hounds, even in heroic if you creep and build right.
Don't know about you but for me 7-9 cerberi aren't really impressive damage dealers, even upgraded to firehounds with battle frenzy. If you're lucky enough to get Grawl for secondary you could get 20 but I wouldn't risk my hide on it Besides before you get hounds it's already day 4 or near that.
Speaking strictly about heroic I usually creep nearly any reasonable creep with dungeon,sylvain and to a lesser extent with academy/necro regardless of tier. Tier 3 for me is usually fightable week 1, unless it's a bunch of hunters 
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 05, 2008 07:38 PM |
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Fire hounds are better in creeping, againts enemy heroes, it depends on your unit combo, if you use seducer and pit spawns, you will certainly lack of AoE damager, that is when fire hounds come to play
that's what I thought (to hit shooters hidden between other stacks especially I guess) but I mostly fight wandering army which are generally in 1 or 2 stacks(and even in the whole game I played with inferno, there was no situation (including sieges and battles vs heroes where fire hounds would have helped me more than cerberus(or at least I think so)))
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But if you use mistress, especially if you already have expert attack + battle frenzy and hero attack about 20 or more, you can use cerberus, because you already have AoE attacker (succubus mistress), you can add more AoE attacker (fire hounds) or you want to switch for greater damage but smaller AoE (cerberus)
what is AoE?  Area of Effect?
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If your style is reflecting your enemies and that means you play counter all the way, here is the example, if you face againts enemy heroes that use two big size units that have almost the same or same initiative and speed, you can go for cerberus because even cerberus will almost likely hit two of them for greater damage than fire hounds.
I do that, when I can figure what the counters are. I have little experience, so I use mostly my experience from previous heroes games (mostly heroes 3 of course) and I think I do quite good (for a beginner)
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Also consider some artifact, example, if you have a total of -4 morale artifact, which will you choose, nightmare or hell stallion, i personally will choose nightmare, -7 morale is truly a pain.
and if you have banshees in your army?
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Againts horde of master gremlins/saboteurs, let your demons die, and never use leaper, overseer is much better, especially if you already have eldritch arrow or stone spike
during early creeping, enemy stacks never targetted my demons, they always attacked my quasit (maybe it's due to a bad placement) it's pretty annoying because demons rarely act while quasit are usually close to the enemy (since they are your main attack force)
is it good to upgrade demons 1st rather than familiars? because they are slow...
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It's not impossible for inferno againts tier 3 with lots of hp with only quasit and overseer/leaper (especially in hard mode), except things like hunter, it's even better if they are slow, best if they're slow and have low initiative, bear rider is one of them, they easily fall with only quasit and overseer, unless if their number is horde (which mean in heroic, but it rarely happens that they guard something that is needed asap)
I had the chance to have only hunters and night daughters on my side of the map as level 3 units. nights daughters are truely a pain too...
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DarkShadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted March 06, 2008 03:40 PM |
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Depends on map,on small map's familiars first and large demons first.also what you meant by quasit?
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 06, 2008 05:20 PM |
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oh yes, it is the french name for vermin.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted March 07, 2008 02:29 PM |
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Don't know about you but for me 7-9 cerberi aren't really impressive damage dealers, even upgraded to firehounds with battle frenzy. If you're lucky enough to get Grawl for secondary you could get 20 but I wouldn't risk my hide on it Besides before you get hounds it's already day 4 or near that.
Speaking strictly about heroic I usually creep nearly any reasonable creep with dungeon,sylvain and to a lesser extent with academy/necro regardless of tier. Tier 3 for me is usually fightable week 1, unless it's a bunch of hunters
That's why, upg ing cerberus asap is a risk, their dmg is pathetic for early weeks, imps dmg is far higher than them.
Ofc cerberus and firehounds not dealing impressive damage, because it's possible for them to hit 3 units at once, firehounds can hit more, sum up their dmg and you get one of the most damaging tier 3 units.
And why you are so eager to always creep all dangerous tier 3 in your teritory early if you can creep another creeps.
I think your style of play is more of dungeon and academy rather than inferno.
With dungeon you can always powerlevel your hero, even if it force you to creep everytime. With dungeon, it doesn't matter what creeps that will attacked by you, with dungeon, it never matter to wisely choosing what creep that must be attacked early or later.
But inferno is different, you can't force your heroes to attacking any enemy in front of you every time in early days.
But, that doesn't means inferno can't powerlevel, even if it's not as fast as dungeon and academy, inferno can powerlevel but you need to creeps wisely.
Maps with many tier 3 near your town usually have tier 1 and tier 2 dwelling coresponding to your faction, some maps even have tier 3 dwelling, exploit it and if you play wisely you'll have no problems even againts hunters. But why attacking hunters asap if they guard gem or crystal mine, i usually skip them as inferno never need crystal and gem.
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that's what I thought (to hit shooters hidden between other stacks especially I guess) but I mostly fight wandering army which are generally in 1 or 2 stacks(and even in the whole game I played with inferno, there was no situation (including sieges and battles vs heroes where fire hounds would have helped me more than cerberus(or at least I think so)))
The purpose of firehounds is to deal damage to more creatures than cerberus whether it's shooter or not, and the choice beetwen those two is up to you, if firebreathers never do any good for you then why wonder another people style, every person have their own style right.
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what is AoE? Area of Effect?
I call all ability that can hit more than one creatures as AoE 
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I do that, when I can figure what the counters are. I have little experience, so I use mostly my experience from previous heroes games (mostly heroes 3 of course) and I think I do quite good (for a beginner)
I'm sure you're good player. Never let your guard down, assuming all player as a good opponent is better then underestimate them.
After all, it all depends on player style.
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and if you have banshees in your army?
Yup, but we talk about choosing nightmare or hell stallion right.
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during early creeping, enemy stacks never targetted my demons, they always attacked my quasit (maybe it's due to a bad placement) it's pretty annoying because demons rarely act while quasit are usually close to the enemy (since they are your main attack force)
is it good to upgrade demons 1st rather than familiars? because they are slow...
If you want to capture ore or wood mines guarded by shooter asap, in heroic it's better to build mage guild asap than upg ing demons, and i'm sure you know that you should not bring your vermin/quasit to the battlefield. Just gate the demons, and defend all the way or you might want to use few quasit or few stack of demons just to gate and block the shooter while your hero stone spike or eldritch arrow them to oblivion and slowly charging your main stack of demons to the front.
But in other situation than attacking shooter asap, i usually upg imps asap.
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I had the chance to have only hunters and night daughters on my side of the map as level 3 units. nights daughters are truely a pain too...
Sometimes, unfortunate situation like that will certainly happen to anyone. But there is some map that is very hard for inferno, i forgot its name, The guardians of rare resources mines (sulfur, mercury, crystal, gem) are all tier 4, worst, druid, mage, and succubus are often appear.
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Sargeras
Known Hero
the Fallen
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posted March 07, 2008 03:57 PM |
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...what about Horned Grunts; is it good to upgrade demons to grunts (Leap = +10% att per tile but is exsposed to double damage retaliation  doesn't look good to me) or it's a waste of resources and should keep demons for creeping...???
One more question: to build Spawn of Chaos (1500g, 5 sulfur - demon/overseer +2 per week) or maybe avoid it ? (if yes then when: early/mid/late game)
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Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control...
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted March 07, 2008 05:41 PM |
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Imho, overseers is more useful for early clearing of your teritory, but if you want to leave your terirories to face your opponent heroes, better switch to leaper. But, againts bloodfuries, leapers are better.
I usually build spawn of chaos late game, and usually it's the last building that i want to build.
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Sargeras
Known Hero
the Fallen
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posted March 10, 2008 10:35 AM |
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...is there some checked strategies against wizards ? I can coup with others but friend kicks my b*** with academy every time (he's maybe much better then me )...so know i'm little frustrated  Can't rush him (playz Havez) and he always trash me with dark/destructive so if anybody have some advice plz... (we play Peninsula)
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Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control...
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted March 10, 2008 11:10 AM |
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Unfortunately, i have very hard problem againts academy too.
But, your initiative and attack is one of your key to win this fight.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 10, 2008 01:14 PM |
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Peninsula is imbalanced by it's own There is little you can do against a week 2 rush by a magic faction.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 10, 2008 01:15 PM |
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and speed I guess, tactics and that perk which gives +1 to speed (or teleport assault?)
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 10, 2008 01:23 PM |
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Tactics is always important but teleport assault is hard to get and takes too many levels for such a short map.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 10, 2008 01:27 PM |
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On peninsula you dont stand a chance. On other maps you need perfect timing. You need to attack before academy affords miniarties, but not too soon
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 10, 2008 01:33 PM |
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and if you use alastor to disable gremlins / mages?
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted March 10, 2008 01:35 PM |
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I'd actually use light magic
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