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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5: Magic System and Spells Discussion
Thread: Heroes 5: Magic System and Spells Discussion This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · NEXT»
Valeriy
Valeriy

Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
posted May 03, 2006 01:35 AM

Heroes 5: Magic System and Spells Discussion

Exact Spell Formulas are now Available on Age of Heroes (thanks to Sfidanza!):

Dark Magic | Destructive Magic | Light Magic | Summoning Magic | Adventure Magic

Related Thread: Adventure Spells

Post your opinions about the Heroes 5 Magic System and Spells here.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com

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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted May 03, 2006 01:50 AM

less adventure map spells than i thought, but i do aprove of the change away from Fire/Water/Earth/Air based spells.  this Summoning/Destrucion/Light/Dark format makes it easy to understand what you are dealing with.

The Armegedon pic looks wicked.
____________
How exactly is luck a skill?

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Nebuka
Nebuka


Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
posted May 03, 2006 03:51 AM

Again, great job sfidanza.

One suggestion to add(only because played recently and noticed that)...seen that Phantom Forces gained incorporeal ability, and also one can again Phantom Force Phantom Forces you Phantom Forced before. Bet I could've said that much simpler lol.

And slightly on topic, casting critters' masteries (thanks to again sfidanza via his post on official forums):

Magi - Fist of Wrath, Basic Mastery, 24+6*Power
Archmagi - Fist of Wrath, Advanced Mastery, 32+8*Power
Archmagi - Fireball, Basic Mastery, 14*Power
Druids - Lightning Bolt, Basic Mastery, 14*Power
Druid Elders - Lightning Bolt, Advanced Mastery, 17*Power
Druid Elders - Ice Bolt, no Mastery, 48+12*Power
Sprites - Wasp Swarm, no Mastery, 8+2*Power
Archliches - Decay, not sure yet of Mastery, 24+8*Power

Titans - Call Lightning (more ability than spell), 30*number of Titans

This new info gave me will to test other caster's spells. Know already I'll get lost with haste and slow, working with initiative gives me headaches.
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zilonite
zilonite


Famous Hero
posted May 03, 2006 09:41 AM

Superb work!

Albeit a few questions still remain. E.g., about possibilities of one hero or creature to dispell the magic, casted by opponent - what influences chances here?

Also - is it possible to dispel or somehow otherwise influence anti-magic, after it was casted?

Any idea anybody?

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meph
meph


Adventuring Hero
Rampaging Rampart
posted May 03, 2006 11:09 AM

I might be mistaken, but the description on Fist of Wrath makes it seem as if Blackies are going down to it too...

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hellwitch
hellwitch


Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
posted May 03, 2006 12:07 PM

In my opnion the townportal is not as good as should be.It level is 5 but you can't choose the town even with Expert!! In other hand the dimension door (instant somewhat) is made 4 lvl spell. I think that in HOMM3 these two magics are made better and their lvl are better choosen dim Door -5lvl TP-4lvl

The summon of the fenix could become overpowering thing but we will see it when start playing the release

Other magics looks nice

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Arangar
Arangar


Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
posted May 03, 2006 12:50 PM

Dimension door is not the same spell. When cast, it drains movement points. Townportal is much better and should be lvl 5.

Although imo they should remove dimension door - it just makes it harder for mapmakers to create balanced maps.
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Arangar
Norwegian viking
ranger of the north

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted May 03, 2006 01:15 PM

Quote:
Dimension door is not the same spell. When cast, it drains movement points. Townportal is much better and should be lvl 5.

Although imo they should remove dimension door - it just makes it harder for mapmakers to create balanced maps.
Instant Travel is not so powerful as Dimension Door was.
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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted May 03, 2006 01:39 PM
Edited by Vlaad at 13:43, 03 May 2006.

Summoning Magic is a mess

Taken from AoH:
Quote:
Towns are not linked to one particular school, but they have a certain inclination to 2 of them. That means their magic guilds will have at least one spell of each of these two schools at every level.


Academy: Light and Summoning
Dungeon: Destructive and Summoning
Haven: Dark and Light
Inferno: Dark and Destructive
Necropolis: Dark and Summoning
Sylvan: Destructive and Light


So, Sylvan is inclined to Destructive but not to Summoning Magic?! I can already see my Ranger casting Armageddon... NOT. In addition, Academy has more chance to get Conjure Phoenix...? Shouldn't those switch places?

As if it wasn't enough, Summoning Magic is a mess anyway:

Fist of Wrath
Summons magical fist to deal non-elemental physical damage to target enemy creature. This spell ignores magic resistance and protection from magic.


Summons a fist?

(By the way, does it negate Black Dragon's Magic immunity as well?)

Wasp Swarm
Summons a swarm of insects to inflict damage on the selected enemy creature.


Rrright. Seems like another destructive spell to me. H4's Wasp Swarm made more sense.

Earthquake (Summoning) is no different than Stone Spikes (Destructive), for example. The same goes for Fire Trap, Firewall and Arcane Armor (the last one obviously belongs to Light).

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Arangar
Arangar


Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
posted May 03, 2006 01:54 PM

Looks like they have totally messed up the Summoning school. Probably because of all the complains during beta

Hopefully a patch will balance/fix it. Hard to say what is what before the game has been out for a while. We'll get used to the system though, we are somewhat human after all
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Arangar
Norwegian viking
ranger of the north

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screamo
screamo

Tavern Dweller
posted May 03, 2006 02:03 PM

Yes u can target Black Dragons with Fist of Wrath.
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sfidanza
sfidanza


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 03, 2006 09:33 PM
Edited by sfidanza at 21:34, 03 May 2006.

Thanks for the praise. I really appreciate it!!
The creatures' spell mastery is ready to be added to the creatures' pages, by the way, but thanks to Nebuka, they're all here at the same place. I'll just add here that the damage depends on spell power, which is calculated from the number of casters in the stack through a logarithmic type formula.
At some point, if you're nice, I may post more about that.

Quote:
Earthquake (Summoning) is no different than Stone Spikes (Destructive), for example.

Earthquake damages castle walls during siege, while Stone Pikes targets creatures. Or did you have something else in mind?

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted May 03, 2006 10:10 PM
Edited by Vlaad at 22:13, 03 May 2006.

Quote:
Quote:
Earthquake (Summoning) is no different than Stone Spikes (Destructive), for example.

Earthquake damages castle walls during siege, while Stone Pikes targets creatures. Or did you have something else in mind?
I wanted to say that essentially they are both destructive spells. Summoning an earthquake just doesn't sound right.
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Nebuka
Nebuka


Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
posted May 03, 2006 10:13 PM

Quote:
I'll just add here that the damage depends on spell power, which is calculated from the number of casters in the stack through a logarithmic type formula.
At some point, if you're nice, I may post more about that.


Post more, post more!

Seems Power is different for each creature...for instance:

100 Sprites - 21 Power
100 Archmagi - 27 Power
100 Magi - 27 Power
100 Druid Elders - 29 Power
100 Druids - 29 Power
100 Archliches - 32 Power
100 Pit Lords - 35 Power

Would be nice to know just by looking at the stack how much power they have, but guess not.

Also, other spells(atleast Endurance from Druids) might be 'connected' to the hero. What I mean is with Godric, my Druids raised by 12 defense of sprites, and master gremlins (+9 for other critters), but then recruited new hero from tavern, and Druids raised defense of said creatures by 9. More tests needed ofcourse, but losing my will with this slow comp I have.

Some more from that above test (could be wrong if indeed there are more factors in, also critter stacks were made of 100 of them):

Archlich - Weakness (Expert Mastery, Griffins did 5-5 dmg, instead of 5-15)
Archlich - Suffering (Advanced Mastery, -9 on Attack)
Archlich - Decay (Advanced Mastery, 4 turns)

Archmagi - Righteous Magic (Advanced Mastery, +9 on Attack)

Druid Elder - Endurance (Expert Mastery, +12 on Attack)

Pit Lord - Vulnerability (Advanced Mastery, -5 on Defense)

Shadow Matriarch - Slow (either Basic, or Advanced Mastery, not sure how game rounds numbers)
Shadow Matriarch - Righteous Magic (Advanced Mastery, +9 on Attack)

Shadow Witch - Slow (same as in S. Matriarch)
Shadow Witch - Righteous Magic (Advanced Mastery, +9 on Attack)
Shadow Witch - Vulnerability (Advanced Mastery, -5 on Defense)

Inquisitor - Haste (similar 'problems' as with Slow from S.Matriarch and Witches)
Inquisitor -  Diving Strenght (Advanced Mastery, min. dmg=80% of max dmg)

Now have to retest with different number of creatures in stacks, different heroes, but think I'll wait for map editor for that. Much easier. :-)




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Dungeonian
Dungeonian


Adventuring Hero
Supreme matriarch
posted May 03, 2006 10:43 PM

  Actualy Shadow witch and Shadow matriarch both can cast all their spells on advantage level ( confusion from matriarchs negates 90% of ranged damage or retaliation strike ) .

  For the spell damage statistics I was true disappointed about Implosion does only 30*SP , why lvl 5 spell is so weak ? Meteor shower and even fireball are quite more useful now . May be H3 75*SP+300 is a bit overpowered ( especialy in connection with emproved and lucky spells ) , but magic guild lvl 5 is still one of the most resourse expensive building , since they should add Implosion damage at least to 50*SP+100 , IMHO

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sfidanza
sfidanza


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 03, 2006 11:15 PM

Nebuka, great effort!!
Not needed, but doesn't that make it even greater?...

As I said, that info will soon be available on creatures pages, for each caster, each spell. We just have some icon tweaking to do...
However, in the meantime, I can fill in some blanks:

Shadow Matriarch - Confusion (No Mastery) (yes only 50% here Dungeonian)
Shadow Matriarch - Slow (Advanced Mastery)
Shadow Witch - Slow (Advanced Mastery)
Inquisitor - Haste (Advanced Mastery)

You'll have to wait till tomorrow for the rest... or am I not allowed some teasing?

@Dungeonian: you mean 40*SP for implosion Still not enough, I agree.

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Nebuka
Nebuka


Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
posted May 03, 2006 11:22 PM

Heh, indeed it's greater. Had fun atleast doing them tests. Can't wait for tommorow.


And now if we could figure out that damage reduction...hmm, maybe you did already?
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Arangar
Arangar


Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
posted May 04, 2006 02:28 PM

How does the duration work for these spells? Sometimes they last for 2 rounds and sometimes 15. Seems random.. or maybe I'm insane


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Arangar
Norwegian viking
ranger of the north

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted May 04, 2006 02:33 PM

Well if the game is based on heroes 3 then it usually lasts by your spell power.
Like if your spell power is 3 then it will durate to 3 rounds but then again it could be different, I never even touched the demo lol.

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Arangar
Arangar


Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
posted May 04, 2006 03:04 PM

I meant for the spellcasting creatures, and in the same battle.
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Arangar
Norwegian viking
ranger of the north

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