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Heroes Community > Tournament of Honor > Thread: What Time Limit Should be Used?
Thread: What Time Limit Should be Used? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
karim26
karim26


Known Hero
Land of Snowfall & Sunshine
posted August 01, 2006 01:43 AM

What Time Limit Should be Used?

I have noticed so far that players have a "comfort" zone time limit to play maps.

I'd like to know from you, what time limit should be used on a map like Dragon Pass.

Personally, I am fine with 7-8 minute turns on this map.


I turn the mic. over to you



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Jinxer
Jinxer


Legendary Hero
*****
posted August 01, 2006 02:24 AM

This thread was spawned because of me......  so I will add my 2 cents.


The timer running during battles is by far the worst addition to this great strategy game. I do the quick combat then I replay it and majority of time I minimize the losses noticably. And some times it takes some careful thought and planning to affect the outcome of a battle.  Heroes has always been alot like chess in the fact that it takes thinking strategy and patients.  But now it appears that people are wanting to take all the thinking out and force quick combat and hurry thru a game.  4 mins would be PLENTY of time if the timer didnt run during combat... but for example today in a game I started with Karim, I fought 52 Zombies day 4. I had very little army and they were slow as molassis!  By the time I clicked wait on my guys 50 times and they took there 3 steps a turn and my shooters mowed them down a few at a time, it easily took like 5 mins. And this was my first battle of my turn.  I had ended the previous turn 1 hex from this battle so, when I exited battle, POOF my time had run out and my hero still had 99% of his movement left. GIVE ME A BREAK! That is obsurd!

So for this reason I refuse to play any game with anything less then 10 min turns. If people wont accept playing 10 min turns...( not that every turn would use all 10 mins) then they wont be playing me, and if I cannot get a game, then I will simply not play H5.  No skin off my nose either way.  My opinion of H5 is still in the pivitol stage anyways as I learn all the aspects of the game.

So that is my 2 cents.


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jrholdt
jrholdt


Hired Hero
posted August 01, 2006 03:21 AM

Quote:
This thread was spawned because of me......  so I will add my 2 cents.


The timer running during battles is by far the worst addition to this great strategy game. I do the quick combat then I replay it and majority of time I minimize the losses noticably. And some times it takes some careful thought and planning to affect the outcome of a battle.  Heroes has always been alot like chess in the fact that it takes thinking strategy and patients.  But now it appears that people are wanting to take all the thinking out and force quick combat and hurry thru a game.  4 mins would be PLENTY of time if the timer didnt run during combat... but for example today in a game I started with Karim, I fought 52 Zombies day 4. I had very little army and they were slow as molassis!  By the time I clicked wait on my guys 50 times and they took there 3 steps a turn and my shooters mowed them down a few at a time, it easily took like 5 mins. And this was my first battle of my turn.  I had ended the previous turn 1 hex from this battle so, when I exited battle, POOF my time had run out and my hero still had 99% of his movement left. GIVE ME A BREAK! That is obsurd!

So for this reason I refuse to play any game with anything less then 10 min turns. If people wont accept playing 10 min turns...( not that every turn would use all 10 mins) then they wont be playing me, and if I cannot get a game, then I will simply not play H5.  No skin off my nose either way.  My opinion of H5 is still in the pivitol stage anyways as I learn all the aspects of the game.

So that is my 2 cents.




i don't see how you can ever require that much time in my game i am playing now day 1 my first fight is 45 master gremlins and we are playing 5 minute turns i attacked them first day with only 5 minotars, 7 scouts, 15 imps, 9 horned demons and no war machines.  quick combat results were bad as i expected so i did the fight myself. and the results were i lost 4 horned demons and the 15 imps with 1 minute left after the fight.  however yes with 5 minute turns on occasion i do run out of time but very rarely.  with your 10 minute turns game jinxer that makes like your games take 2 times as long.  consider this maxium legth of a 5 minute turn game would be 350 minutes this is by using a 5 week game for example.  however a 10 minute turn game would be double that so your looking at 700 minutes.  the chance of running out of time 1 or 2 turns is well worthe it for me to save up to 6 hours of game time.

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Jinxer
Jinxer


Legendary Hero
*****
posted August 01, 2006 04:32 AM

You are assuming that I max out every turn at 10 mins.  Never will that happen. Alot of turns I accept the Quick COmbat results and use under 4 mins etc. Buton the occasion that I require 8 mins to complete a tuff battle I have that option without sacrificing crucial hero movement.  So whereas your games take 350 mins....my games maybe would be 400 mins. I am in this for quality games, not quanity. Why would I want to play 50 games where computer fought 90% of the game for me??? I rather play 35 games where I was involved in the majority of the out come.

As I said, to each there own... if this becomes a serious issue, then I just wont play.  Karim told me that you refused a game with him cause he wanted 7 mins and you said nothing longer then 5 mins lol. So obviously you and I will never play. Could be that this game I am in with Karim may be my last. Regardless if I eventually get faster as I learn the game, I dont want to be a part of a community that only wants fast quick games knocked off as fast as possible. Thats how the the H5 TOH season started....players exploiting Land of Outcasts for quick fast points. There werent playing for the joy and enjoyment of the game.

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karim26
karim26


Known Hero
Land of Snowfall & Sunshine
posted August 01, 2006 05:00 AM

*sigh*

oh boy Jinxer


Now I'll look like a tattle-tale.

Just for the record, I don't want this to seem that I am bashing any players. Jrholdt, nothing personal

I never really played H3 in ToH.....oh wait, I did try to play H3, but wasnt any good.

I spent most of my time playing all seasons of H4. As some of you H3'ers know, H4 turns were very long because of scouting system and fights. I am used to high-quality games. On some H4 maps, turns could take about 20 minutes, which may seem like a very long wait, BUT, there would be so much to do in one turn.

I think i am in between Jrholt turn-length and Jinxer turns. I find Jinxer's to be too long for maps like Dragon Pass (perhaps when a 2nd main hero is needed on other maps, Jinxer's time will be appropriate for me). And I find Jr's to be too short.

Okay, right now my record is not shining, ( at the moment 2 wins and 5 losses) but that's because I'm still learning this game which is nothing like the 300 games+ I played in H4.

In order to play many different people in this league, players are going to have to compromise. The key is identifying your own personal comfort time-limit. Then, you have to negotiate with other's time limits. For example, I like 7 minutes. Jrholdt likes 5. Wouldnt a 6 minute turn be logical then?  Otherwise, players will start playing the same people over and over again, and this in my opinion, defeats the purpose of a league.


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jrholdt
jrholdt


Hired Hero
posted August 01, 2006 05:16 AM

i never use qc for 90% of the fights.  the most i use qc is 10% of the fights with 5 minute turns, normally 2 or 3 fights per game. all the early fights i end up doing myself.  later fights when i'm fighting extremly easy things and qc looses nothing at all i acept them but thats it.  and about my post on the time i figured it for the maxium amount.  normally if i play a game with longer time limits i will end up using more time every turn.  with 5 minute turns i do run out of time about 3 fights per game sometimes 4 which is accetable to me cause i relize my opponent will have same issues.  also anyone who does use qc for 90% of the fights would loose every single game cause they would loose way to much.  so far fastest turn limit game i ever played with h5 was 2 minute turns and that was a strugle lol.

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Jinxer
Jinxer


Legendary Hero
*****
posted August 01, 2006 05:19 AM

Karim touched on a key point.  We are all learning this game still.  Some are more advanced cause they have more games under there belt. I have only finished 1 game and 2-3 partial games. I still dont know what all the creatures abilities and strengths etc. So you can imagine that during battles as I am learning the creatures and there strengths have to think longer then someone who has played 10-12 games.  Eventually when I understand all the creatures strengths and abilities then could see battles going alot faster.

But as Karim mentioned at first people may need to compromise to make for a quality game. So far Karim and Bobbyohms have been more then patient and fair and willing to compromise...truely honorable and great players.

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jrholdt
jrholdt


Hired Hero
posted August 01, 2006 05:43 AM

Quote:
oh boy Jinxer


Now I'll look like a tattle-tale.

Just for the record, I don't want this to seem that I am bashing any players. Jrholdt, nothing personal

I never really played H3 in ToH.....oh wait, I did try to play H3, but wasnt any good.

I spent most of my time playing all seasons of H4. As some of you H3'ers know, H4 turns were very long because of scouting system and fights. I am used to high-quality games. On some H4 maps, turns could take about 20 minutes, which may seem like a very long wait, BUT, there would be so much to do in one turn.

I think i am in between Jrholt turn-length and Jinxer turns. I find Jinxer's to be too long for maps like Dragon Pass (perhaps when a 2nd main hero is needed on other maps, Jinxer's time will be appropriate for me). And I find Jr's to be too short.

Okay, right now my record is not shining, ( at the moment 2 wins and 5 losses) but that's because I'm still learning this game which is nothing like the 300 games+ I played in H4.

In order to play many different people in this league, players are going to have to compromise. The key is identifying your own personal comfort time-limit. Then, you have to negotiate with other's time limits. For example, I like 7 minutes. Jrholdt likes 5. Wouldnt a 6 minute turn be logical then?  Otherwise, players will start playing the same people over and over again, and this in my opinion, defeats the purpose of a league.




its no problem karim on some maps i am willing to willing to extend the time limit by 1 minute.  but dragon pass is a map you get only 1 town for most of the game and map i find you only should fight with one main hero.  accually by some of the maps requiring more time that would be only one other map that i will sub treasures.  on sub treasures you get 2 towns at the start and is a map that i like to use 2 heroes to fight sometimes so the extra minute is accetable to me on that.  7 to 8 minute turns would be ok for me maybe on a really large map where you get 5 towns or more but we don't have any good maps like that yet.

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jrholdt
jrholdt


Hired Hero
posted August 01, 2006 05:51 AM

Quote:
Karim touched on a key point.  We are all learning this game still.  Some are more advanced cause they have more games under there belt. I have only finished 1 game and 2-3 partial games. I still dont know what all the creatures abilities and strengths etc. So you can imagine that during battles as I am learning the creatures and there strengths have to think longer then someone who has played 10-12 games.  Eventually when I understand all the creatures strengths and abilities then could see battles going alot faster.

But as Karim mentioned at first people may need to compromise to make for a quality game. So far Karim and Bobbyohms have been more then patient and fair and willing to compromise...truely honorable and great players.


well if you ever have any spare time a great way to help learn is playing single player games or ask some of us who have played a lot of games for tips.  And in my opinion there is one town that is so weak you should never play it thats accedemy.  accedemy requires attack or defence artifacts to win way to heavily and mostly only gains knowllege for stats.  after i played a game the other day and my stats i couldn't kill guards because my stats were so pathetic i'll never use accedemy till they fix it.  week 4 my attack was 2 and defence 3 spell power 6 knollege 17.

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Jinxer
Jinxer


Legendary Hero
*****
posted August 01, 2006 06:08 AM

I slaughtered Karim when I used Acadamy.

And single player sucks. Cant learn that way, its way to boring that way. Without multi, I wouldnt give this game a second glance.
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jrholdt
jrholdt


Hired Hero
posted August 01, 2006 06:21 AM

Quote:
I slaughtered Karim when I used Acadamy.

And single player sucks. Cant learn that way, its way to boring that way. Without multi, I wouldnt give this game a second glance.


yea single player is quite boring and accedemy can win if they get the right type of artifacts but when all your artifacts are knollege or moral increacers accedemy is so week and that can happen. other towns can make up for the bad stats since they normally get allready good stats from lvls.

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Ghasteater
Ghasteater


Known Hero
posted August 01, 2006 06:52 AM

Did you notice that thing, that time remains, but if the battle was more than half  time-limit comp automatically give turn to another player...

Or it is only mine hallucinations...

Even 10 turns combat can earn full time. That is relly bad.

Also is bad that time used in battles human Vs Human...

So finishing enemy main hero and going in his town will be impossible in 1 turn.
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jrholdt
jrholdt


Hired Hero
posted August 01, 2006 07:46 AM
Edited by jrholdt at 07:50, 01 Aug 2006.

Quote:
Did you notice that thing, that time remains, but if the battle was more than half  time-limit comp automatically give turn to another player...

Or it is only mine hallucinations...

Even 10 turns combat can earn full time. That is relly bad.

Also is bad that time used in battles human Vs Human...

So finishing enemy main hero and going in his town will be impossible in 1 turn.


accually i have noticed that timer says you have time left a lot after fights but that is the amount of time you went over i beleive. not the amount of time you had left i'll set a clock sometime and time it.

and yes if you fight enemy hero you will run out of time and not be able to take his town on the same turn.  but i never seen anyone win a game after their main hero has been defeated and even if they retreat and its week 1 they will not have enough gold to get many creatures.

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Betruger
Betruger


Known Hero
empowered mind
posted August 01, 2006 03:17 PM
Edited by Betruger at 15:19, 01 Aug 2006.

I think that games should be played at 10 mins at least. Hell. I think there should be no time limit, as long as we trust our opponent to play his turn at reasonable speed, not going shopping in the meantime etc.

Reason is simple. Time runs during battles.

Imagine the situation: you are fighting a long endgame battle with your opponent next to his castle. The battle was hard but you managed to win with just a few troops remaining. The opponent retreats. Normally you would take his town after the battle and win.
But with 7 minutes time limit - no! You get end of turn after the battle, opponent buys his hero from tavern, buys other hero to get some troops, and suddenly his sitting in well fortified castle having more troops than you do.

Silly.

I could think of thousands situations like that.

Also scout vs scout battles can take a long time.
Fighting hordes of zombies in week one takes enormous ammount of time.
Same goes for gargoyles.
Figthing as inferno without Deleb's fireballista in first week takes great ammount of time, because it seems that gated creatures are not affected by animation speed settings and always move at standard speed.

The perfect sollution for this problem would be of course if time did not run during battles. It seems so obvious, that I really was surprised to find it's the other way.
After all, there is a 'dynamic battles' option that limits your time for each action in battle.
At present moment, this option is completly useless, thanks to time running in battles.

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vesuvius
vesuvius

Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
posted August 01, 2006 04:39 PM

I play 5 minute turns... always get everything done.

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Jinxer
Jinxer


Legendary Hero
*****
posted August 01, 2006 04:54 PM
Edited by Jinxer at 16:56, 01 Aug 2006.

Sure you get everything done... but you only win 50% of your games

Maybe if you took your time in a couple of them games you might have better winning record.  


And Betrugers post was right on!!!!
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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted August 01, 2006 05:06 PM
Edited by maretti at 11:04, 02 Aug 2006.

My experience from h3 is that the strong and fair players accept basicly any time limit cause they want both players to be able to do their best. The noobs and people whom you are likely to get into disputes with demand short time limits. I dont think time should be an issue in a heroes game since it is turn based and you should be able to think things through and not just act on instinct. On the other hand you shouldnt be able to annoy your opponent with extremly long turns.

I havent played h5 yet but with the time running in combat i dont see myself playing less than 10 min turns ever. (should I play h5 at some point)


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lkru33
lkru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted August 01, 2006 05:47 PM
Edited by lkru33 at 17:56, 01 Aug 2006.

Quote:
My experience from h3 is that the strong and fair players accept basicly any time limit cause they want both players to be able to do their best. I dont think time should be an issue in a heroes game since it is turn based and you should be able to think things through and not just act on instinct. On the other hand you shouldnt be able to annoy your opponent with exstremly long turns.



Nothing like those double and triple "Active"s to know that your opponent is having another great game... eh Mr. Marettiolator

As for H5, the way this is set up, you might as well turn the timer off.  Some really tough battles can take all of 10 minutes just for the 1 fight alone. Hopefully they come out with a patch that will address the issue of having the timer run during battles.  If they do this, 6 min. turns is good for me.
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karim26
karim26


Known Hero
Land of Snowfall & Sunshine
posted August 01, 2006 07:15 PM

I think that the only time I'll agree to play long time limits is if my opponent is honorable and I know them.

Ill use shorter turns if I have no other choice because of opponent time-limit preference or because i dont know them very well.

Nothing worst then having to wait 20 minutes every turn to play some, especially if you dont know whether the other player is doing it on purpose to waste your time, especially in games where you opponent may be losing.

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jb239
jb239


Famous Hero
posted August 01, 2006 09:29 PM

Back in Heroes 3 I was one of those 2 minute turn lovers, so it almost sounds like 2 minute turns in Heroes 3 is comparable to the 4 minute turns in Heroes 5.

With that being said..

I can understand people needing more time, but if you want 10 minute turns when you play me it better not be taken advantage of.. cause the games are long enough as it is.

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