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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Lvl 7 creatures... are they really worthed the money
Thread: Lvl 7 creatures... are they really worthed the money This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted August 18, 2006 01:37 PM

Lvl 7 creatures... are they really worthed the money

I think this game allows us to play without them... It is a matter of choice somehow :

-upgrade 3 or more of the other creatures , or build the lvl 7

For me most of the lvl 7s are not worthed the money ... maybe just in very very long games , and the current mapsa are not that kind

So here is my list of preferences :

- Angel - I'd rather not build it , unless I am sure I will get the Archangel also somewhere in the future, and have enough money to buy! Even so I think I'd rather some marksmen for those 50k most of the times

- Devil - I think these one might do it ... I'd build them in many situations. The ArchDevils on the other hand are very expensive so I don't know if the upgrade is really worthed...Their Summon PitLords Ability seems very interesting but , will enough of them survive to use it properly ?!

- Green Dragon - 99% of the times I say yes. It is very cheap to build and has good initiative and speed . His upgrade on the other hand is not a big improvement so I'd skip it

- Bone Dragon - No... It simply is crap ! And the Spectre Dragon too

- Colossi - No way Jose ... Simply too expensive ... Only if the map is Huuuuuge and I can upgrade it to Titan in time . So 95% no !

- Shadow Dragon - it is nice and it can upgraded to Black Dragon... Not very cheap though ... I would be tempted to do it most of the times, but it might not be the smartest decision


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Izzachar
Izzachar


Adventuring Hero
posted August 18, 2006 01:59 PM

About the arch devils apart from probably never get them their ability can come in handy. Send in cerberus and nightmares stay behind with devils. So now opponent gotta choose wether or not to kill cerberus and nightmares first only to get a stack off pit fiends infront off him or kill the arch devils and let nightmares and cerberus deal more damage. Atleast I did this vs computer I have no idea if it would really work that good vs a human player.

About building lv 7s. I did it once in MP game so far and I got week of the plague after it

I think its good that they are so expensive. Also you gotta choose wether or not upgrading or lv 7s are the best choice. When hero reaches lv 15 progress is slow and chests no longer mean that much considering xp it  might then be good idea to take gold and save upp for lv 7s.

Some factions key upgrades arent that expensive either and you could prioriztize lv 7s maybe? With inferno I usually only upgrade succubus, hell hounds and imps. 9000 gold for pit lords or 15k for devils? 6000 more isnt that much. I think devils come in more handy then pitlords vs pit fiends.

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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted August 18, 2006 02:10 PM

you don't upgrade the hell chargers to nightmares ?!

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Izzachar
Izzachar


Adventuring Hero
posted August 18, 2006 02:15 PM

Quote:
you don't upgrade the hell chargers to nightmares ?!


Well yeah I forgot about them but it isnt such a high priority as the other ones, they are very durable in battle despite beeing unupgraded

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hellwitch
hellwitch


Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
posted August 18, 2006 02:22 PM
Edited by hellwitch at 14:24, 18 Aug 2006.

I think that it is early ot make such conclusions for the lvl 7 ,because map editor and random generator are still to come(even after 1 year and expansion it will happen).Because the lack of maps we can't know the lvl 7 real power (I'm talking for MP)in my opinion.

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Unixmage
Unixmage


Known Hero
Demon Slayer
posted August 18, 2006 02:30 PM

If you have the spare gold and nothing better to spend it on why not? Of course if you are tight on resources most of those choices seem wise specially not getting those colossus which have "SHOOT ME" written on their chests.  

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 18, 2006 02:57 PM

Quote:


- Devil - I think these one might do it ... I'd build them in many situations. The ArchDevils on the other hand are very expensive so I don't know if the upgrade is really worthed...Their Summon PitLords Ability seems very interesting but , will enough of them survive to use it properly ?!




No problem with that.Once I thought a 5-archdevil stack wasn't much of threat only to witness the summoning of 10 pitlords I lost the battle.
BTW how on earth does the AI build 7-tier creatures so fast AND buy them?Not to mention how fast it upgrades them too.Jeez...Good thing it makes crappy decisions.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted August 18, 2006 02:58 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 14:58, 18 Aug 2006.

well, devils are pretty much the only nonupgraded lvl7 that are worth the money, so if you can afford it (and other units aswell, maybe after cleaning the utopia or smth like that) it's a good choice. As for shadow dragons, which ain't bad, maybe greenies, too, well they ain't bad too, but nothing special at all. Bone dragons dwelling is way too expensive and they are crappy, angels totally suck if not upgraded and colossi are worthless, better to spend the money for more raksashas ;x

Elvin, AI starts with 200 of each resource, don't be suprised it can afford those creatures in second week, or so. ; O

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 18, 2006 03:08 PM
Edited by Elvin at 15:11, 18 Aug 2006.

Quote:
As for shadow dragons, which ain't bad, maybe greenies, too, well they ain't bad too, but nothing special at all. Bone dragons dwelling is way too expensive and they are crappy, angels totally suck if not upgraded and colossi are worthless, better to spend the money for more raksashas ;x



Greenies cost 10000 and have 200 hp.How can you pass that?Angels aren't that bad with a knight's defence but they are damn expensive.Maybe they want their luxuries?Decadence!Think pretty much the same about the others.
The costs are a necessity for a game that is likely to last for long.Better to accumulate them and buy when mostly needed.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted August 18, 2006 03:17 PM

well, angels cost a lot, and they do less damage than jousting paladins, marksmen(blessed, ofc) and battlediving or blessed gryphs. That's why I'd rather buy those creatures instead of a crappy and expensive lvl7.

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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted August 18, 2006 03:37 PM

true, angels are just not worthed that kind of money ! I seriously doubt the need for archangels also... More marksmen and/or paladins through training might be a better choice(in my oppinion they are )...

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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted August 18, 2006 03:47 PM

Perhaps you guys are discussing higher difficulty levels?  On normal for example I found 30 titans to be better than 150 archmagi.  Certainly better than the djinn.

The Black Dragons are pretty solid and they go more often than hydras do.

I'm not crazy about angels/archangels but the archedevils are very strong offensively.

I wish Emerald dragons were better (or that they were phoenixes) but they are pretty decent.

Anyhow, if you've captured a couple of enemy castles and/or gold mines you can usually finance your level 7's.
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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted August 18, 2006 03:59 PM

we are talking about multiplayer ... and hard difficulty . 150 Archmagi 30 Titans , are unreachable numbers in these conditions , cause the game would last 3 days

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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted August 18, 2006 04:05 PM

Quote:
we are talking about multiplayer ... and hard difficulty . 150 Archmagi 30 Titans , are unreachable numbers in these conditions , cause the game would last 3 days


Hmm, Well for one thing those numbers come from the last map my friend played which was one of the unlocked by mod maps from Elrath.  Lots of ocean cuts up travel time on that map.

When you say multiplayer do you mean with other human players?

Because I like best to play on the multiplayer maps but only do so against the A.I.  (I'm not familiar with this internet playing and doing a whole mission in one sitting seems like a lot).

I like hard difficulty because the enemy uses better spells.  Still, even on hard you should be able to get a capital relatively quickly, but it's true that the level 7 dwellings are disproportionately expensive.  In other words you pay a lot for not so much as somebody (doomforge?) already said.

Still, I prefer this to running around with only black dragons in heroes II.
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kerista
kerista

Tavern Dweller
posted August 18, 2006 09:57 PM

One thing you must take into consideration for the Green/Emerald Dragons is their Initiative 12/14.  Best rank 7 Initiative in the game.  They WILL go before the other rank 7's and go more often.  Green dragons have more attack, defense and Initiative than the Shadow dragons, while having the same hit points AND they cost less.  I do wish the upgrade to Emerald raised their hitpoints though.

The Titan on the other hand, I have to agree with the above posts.  It has the highest rank 7 cost and it is the only one that can't fly/teleport.  It even has less hitpoints than most of the others.  It just does not have the freedom to be let loose to reak havoc on everything like a rank 7 unit should.  Put any chump unit in his face and he is limited to only attacking them.  Teleport some Treants in front of him and it's game over.  Being a shooter instead of a flyer is not a good tradeoff for a rank 7.  What were they thinking when they came up with the cost for him?  Hell, before he is upgraded he can't even shoot.  AND he's slow to boot.

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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted August 19, 2006 05:03 PM

you are very wrong about the titan. It is one of the most usefull creatures in the game... and also one of the most powerfull, very good damage ! Unfortunately you cant build them very easy, but once you have them they are deadly!

You are also forgeting that they also have the ability to cast lightning bolts... So if they are reached by enemies they have options !blast anyone with bolts or go into melee ... which they are pretty good at

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted August 19, 2006 05:22 PM

I agree with Tower Lord, the Titan is for me a very usefull creature. True, it'll only come into play in late game and on large maps, but it certainly makes a difference for me.

Also, I think in general the Level 7 units makes a difference - the Devil is a much needed flighing unit for the Inferno, and also the only tank-like unit of that faction. The Archangel obviously has huge potential and the ability to Raise allies is all-important. The Emerald Dragon is less important, but also comes earlier through the not-so-expensive dwelling, and the Black Dragon is worth its money for it's exceptional stats.

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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted August 21, 2006 05:44 PM

After playing two games, of 7 hours in this weekend , and training hundreds of marksmen, I can say this is a far better choice than building the Angels/Archangels.

Even though the Angels/Archangels are not bad at all, you get far better results for your money , from training marksmen... Maybe you should build them if you won't have enough paesants to train !

The Paladins fill the spot of a lvl 7 perfectly... they actually deal more damage than any other unit in the game with Jousting, and they get 400 HPs / week, just like other lvl 7. Maybe their defense is not as good as the one of lvl 7 crits, but who needs that when playing with a knight ?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted August 21, 2006 08:10 PM

agreed, but jousting got nerfed a bit in 1.2... they are still the strongest damage dealers in game, tho, surpassing even black dragons in weekly damage when jousting at full distance.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 21, 2006 08:35 PM

Quote:
agreed, but jousting got nerfed a bit in 1.2... they are still the strongest damage dealers in game, tho, surpassing even black dragons in weekly damage when jousting at full distance.


BTW what is the current percentage of jousting?I thought it was 10% but in a official homm forum it was said to be 5%.
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