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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Advanced Classes
Thread: Advanced Classes This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted September 02, 2006 10:04 PM bonus applied.
Edited by Vlaad at 22:15, 02 Sep 2006.

Advanced Classes

Remember the advanced classes in Heroes 4? I loved those. Sure, some were more powerful than others (compare 20% bonus to all spells and 20% bonus to Summon Wolf ). Nevertheless, they somehow added depth to your strategy and tactics.

I missed the feature so much that I thought of ways to include it into the latest sequel. If the whole thing could be scripted in the new editor, it would be a great addition. If not, keep in mind this is Altar of Wishes. Sometimes wishes do come true.

Here’s my proposal:

Similar to Heroes 4, in order to acquire one of the advanced classes, heroes need to reach the Expert level of any of the two skills. For example, if your Hunter had Expert Light and Advanced Dark, then gained a level and chose Expert Dark, he would have two skills at Expert. In this case, Light and Dark magic would make him an Infidel and he would be granted a bonus (e.g. automatically learn one Light and one Dark spell that were previously not present in his spell book – checking from level 5 downwards).

Unlike Heroes 4, heroes would not change their advanced class once they have gained the Expert level of their third (or any other) skill.

The list of classes or the way of obtaining them is not written in stone, of course. I’d love to hear everybody’s suggestions.



I didn't want to stretch the page, so I decided to split the chart in two. I hope you can still read it! Like I said, Light + Dark = Infidel, etc.


I’ve tried to find names that fit the Might and Magic universe. In addition, you’ll notice most are as neutral as possible. Why? There are titles which may sound good, such as "rajah" for example – but I couldn’t imagine an elf with that designation. Finally, I excluded all the creatures’ names, hence no Cavaliers, Druids, Priests etc. The recent roster of Haven renegades lists Champion and Zealot though. What do you think? Any ideas?

I have to admit I have failed to come up with imaginative bonuses as well. Some come down to +3 spellpower, others are too similar to the existing perks and abilities. So I’d love to hear what other fans would have to say. Keep in mind the balance as well as the originality!

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God2
God2


Adventuring Hero
Your benevolent deity
posted September 02, 2006 11:11 PM
Edited by God2 at 23:25, 02 Sep 2006.

Great idea, I like it!

However, I propose some minor changes:

Change Light/Sorcery from Sorcerer into Diviner
Change Destruction/Sorcery into Sorcerer
Change Destructive/Sorcerer from Fury into Evoker
Anarch should probably not belong in the Leadership tree, since an anarchist opposes all forms of authority.
Change Guildmaster into Leadership/War Machines
(a master of a guild ought to have some leadership skills I think)
I'd also choose Sage instead of Elder.

Also, Infidel just sound like a derogative for someone with the "incorrect" belief, not a class.

How about any of the following..
Shadow Priest, Voidmage, Grey Mage, Master of Twilight, or Turncoat?


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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 03, 2006 02:42 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 02:45, 03 Sep 2006.

Hi Vlaad, I'd really like to give you some feedback to your post. I hope you'll take the time to read this.

First of all, the Secondary Classes was a nice feature of Heroes IV, and even though I was no great fan of the game, I think that particular feature was pretty well concived. Therefore, when I first heard about the Heroes V skill system, I was a bit dissapointed that they left out this feature.

However, after having played the game for some time, I have changed my mind, at least to some extend. I would love to see some modifications to the skill / class system, but I don't think the model you propose would make sense in terms of the present game. This is true for two reasons.

1) First, unlike Heroes IV, you will max out in a lot of Skills in Heroes V. In Heroes IV, each skill hosted a possible 20 level (4 x Grandmaster of 5 levels each) - in Heroes V, this number is only 6 (Basic, Advanced Expert + 3 Abilities). Thus, you fairly quickly get to maximize in 4 or 5 or 6 Skills, and the Secondary Class system would be kind of a mess - would the first 2 Skills determine it, or should it depend on 3 or more skills, and how many combinations wouldn't that spawn, and can we come up with, etc.
2) Secondly, I think the present Ability system pretty much makes up for the Secondary classes. Thus, as you know, you can choose to persue certain abilities that will be interlinked within the Skills, and thus possibly provide you substantial bonuses to your hero - the Ultimate Abilities being the most extreme of these. Therefore, I think the idea of Secondary classes is more or less redundant in the form they existed in Heroes IV, because the bonuses you wish for become available through these specific combinations of abilities.


That being said, I think there would be some things that could well change. What I would especially like to see was some sort of linking between your skills/abilities and your primary stats (attack, deffence, spellpower, knowledge). The simplest thing would be to add the choice of Hero class - to bring back the Cleric, the Heretic, the Death Knight, the Overlord, the Alcemist and the Druid Classes (well, and rename some of them to avoid doubles with unit names, but you get the picture).

However, a much more interesting model would go something like this. I haven't quite made this up, but let me explain my general thoughts.

- Each time you choose a secondary skill, that skill will be linked to your chance of progressing in the different Primary Skills at level-ups. Let me give a more detailed explanation below.

Imagine for instance the Knight, which has perhaps basic chance of increasing in the stats something like Attack 30 %, Deffence 50 %, Spellpowr 10 %, Knowledge 10 %. I don't know the exact numbers, but you get the picture I'm sure.

Now, also imagine that each Skill (and its abilities) are tied to a Primary Skill. Thus, let's say the connections are like this:
- Attack Skill tied to: Offence, Leadership and War Machines.
- Defense Skill tied to: Defense, Logistics and Luck.
- Spellpower tied to: Destructive Magic, Summoning Magic, Light Magic, Dark Magic.
- Knowledge tied to: Enlightenment, Sorcery.

Now imagine, that each time you take a level in some Skill, this will raise your chance for increasing the attached Primary Skill at future level up by, say, 3 % (and the other skills will drop by 1 % each).

Thus, let's say I want my Knight from above to be more "Cleric" like, and I choose to give him levels in Light Magic, Enlightenment and Leadership. Let's say at 12th level, I've increased his level of Enlightenment by 4 levels, maxed out Light Magic with 6 levels and given him 2 levels in Leadership. His *new* primary skill progression will then be:

Attack: 30 % + 2 x 3 % (from Leadership) - 10 x 1 % (from Light Magic and Enlightenment) = 26 %
Defense: 50 % - 12 x 1 % (from Leadership, Light Magic and Enlightenment) = 38 %
Spellpower: 10 % + 6 x 3 % (from Light Magic) - 6 x 1 % (from Leadership and Enlightenment) = 22 %
Knowledge: 10 % + 4 x 3 % (Enlightenment) - 8 x 1 % (Leadership and Light Magic) = 14 %

Thus, where the "original" Knight had chances 30 % / 50 % / 10 % / 10 %, the "new - Cleric like" Knight has chances 26 % / 38 % / 22 % / 14 %. One could even make the system even more pronounced - say, +6 % pr. level - the above example would then yield 22 % / 26 % / 34 % / 18 %. The effect of this would be to make the Knight a very respectable caster. He might still not compete with the Wizard and Warlock, who'd have like 40 % and 50 % chance of gaining Spellpower and Knowledge, but he'd get decent stats, even though his lower levels will give him the characteristic boost in Attack and Defense which is, after all, inherent to the Knight class.

The danger of making the effects too extreme would of course be that a Knight focusing on, say, Logistics, Attack, Defense and Leadership would end up with 0 % chance of increasing Spellpower and Knowledge at level up (but then, the above Knight will have less use of these abilities, and it will perhaps also make a more realistic picture of his primary skills as reflected by his secondary skills).

I don't know if this would actually work, but I think it would be a fun way to make the Heroes more "customizable" and would also help out on the familiar problem of having a Knight whom you specialise in Spell Casting and still has Spell Power 1 at level 15.


I know this idea not necessarily excludes your idea, but as I said, I'm not sure the system you propose would work very well in Heroes V game, and I think the abilities take care of much of it. I do agree, however, that some additional features would be cool.

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Unixmage
Unixmage


Known Hero
Demon Slayer
posted September 03, 2006 04:55 AM

Interesting but I'd rather not mess with the skills system.

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted September 03, 2006 09:39 AM
Edited by Vlaad at 10:42, 03 Sep 2006.

Quote:
Great idea, I like it!

However, I propose some minor changes:

Change Light/Sorcery from Sorcerer into Diviner
Change Destruction/Sorcery into Sorcerer
Change Destructive/Sorcery from Fury into Evoker
OK, makes sense.
Quote:
Anarch should probably not belong in the Leadership tree, since an anarchist opposes all forms of authority.
You are right, although there is this theory about an anarch being the incarnation of a social movement (rather than an idea, e.g. the idea of monarchy personified in the form of a monarch). It sounds far-fetched, I know.
Quote:
Change Guildmaster into Leadership/War Machines
(a master of a guild ought to have some leadership skills I think)
I'd also choose Sage instead of Elder.
OK.
Quote:
Also, Infidel just sound like a derogative for someone with the "incorrect" belief, not a class.
True, but that was the idea! Someone who excells at both Light and Dark magic must surely be an outcast in their native community...? Perhaps not in Academy, though.
Quote:
How about any of the following..
Shadow Priest, Voidmage, Grey Mage, Master of Twilight, or Turncoat?
Yeah, but you'll notice I used one-word titles only... for practical reasons.
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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted September 03, 2006 09:47 AM
Edited by Vlaad at 10:48, 03 Sep 2006.

Quote:

1) First, unlike Heroes IV, you will max out in a lot of Skills in Heroes V. In Heroes IV, each skill hosted a possible 20 level (4 x Grandmaster of 5 levels each) - in Heroes V, this number is only 6 (Basic, Advanced Expert + 3 Abilities). Thus, you fairly quickly get to maximize in 4 or 5 or 6 Skills,
Actually, in H4 you needed two skills at Advanced level (not Grandmaster), which meant even faster reaching an advanced class.
Quote:
and the Secondary Class system would be kind of a mess - would the first 2 Skills determine it, or should it depend on 3 or more skills, and how many combinations wouldn't that spawn, and can we come up with, etc.
I think the advanced class, once gained, should not be subject to change. I agree it would be a complete mess otherwise.
Quote:

2) Secondly, I think the present Ability system pretty much makes up for the Secondary classes. Thus, as you know, you can choose to persue certain abilities that will be interlinked within the Skills, and thus possibly provide you substantial bonuses to your hero - the Ultimate Abilities being the most extreme of these. Therefore, I think the idea of Secondary classes is more or less redundant in the form they existed in Heroes IV, because the bonuses you wish for become available through these specific combinations of abilities.


That being said, I think there would be some things that could well change. What I would especially like to see was some sort of linking between your skills/abilities and your primary stats (attack, deffence, spellpower, knowledge). The simplest thing would be to add the choice of Hero class - to bring back the Cleric, the Heretic, the Death Knight, the Overlord, the Alcemist and the Druid Classes (well, and rename some of them to avoid doubles with unit names, but you get the picture).

However, a much more interesting model would go something like this. I haven't quite made this up, but let me explain my general thoughts.

- Each time you choose a secondary skill, that skill will be linked to your chance of progressing in the different Primary Skills at level-ups. Let me give a more detailed explanation below.

Imagine for instance the Knight, which has perhaps basic chance of increasing in the stats something like Attack 30 %, Deffence 50 %, Spellpowr 10 %, Knowledge 10 %. I don't know the exact numbers, but you get the picture I'm sure.

Now, also imagine that each Skill (and its abilities) are tied to a Primary Skill. Thus, let's say the connections are like this:
- Attack Skill tied to: Offence, Leadership and War Machines.
- Defense Skill tied to: Defense, Logistics and Luck.
- Spellpower tied to: Destructive Magic, Summoning Magic, Light Magic, Dark Magic.
- Knowledge tied to: Enlightenment, Sorcery.

Now imagine, that each time you take a level in some Skill, this will raise your chance for increasing the attached Primary Skill at future level up by, say, 3 % (and the other skills will drop by 1 % each).

Thus, let's say I want my Knight from above to be more "Cleric" like, and I choose to give him levels in Light Magic, Enlightenment and Leadership. Let's say at 12th level, I've increased his level of Enlightenment by 4 levels, maxed out Light Magic with 6 levels and given him 2 levels in Leadership. His *new* primary skill progression will then be:

Attack: 30 % + 2 x 3 % (from Leadership) - 10 x 1 % (from Light Magic and Enlightenment) = 26 %
Defense: 50 % - 12 x 1 % (from Leadership, Light Magic and Enlightenment) = 38 %
Spellpower: 10 % + 6 x 3 % (from Light Magic) - 6 x 1 % (from Leadership and Enlightenment) = 22 %
Knowledge: 10 % + 4 x 3 % (Enlightenment) - 8 x 1 % (Leadership and Light Magic) = 14 %

Thus, where the "original" Knight had chances 30 % / 50 % / 10 % / 10 %, the "new - Cleric like" Knight has chances 26 % / 38 % / 22 % / 14 %. One could even make the system even more pronounced - say, +6 % pr. level - the above example would then yield 22 % / 26 % / 34 % / 18 %. The effect of this would be to make the Knight a very respectable caster. He might still not compete with the Wizard and Warlock, who'd have like 40 % and 50 % chance of gaining Spellpower and Knowledge, but he'd get decent stats, even though his lower levels will give him the characteristic boost in Attack and Defense which is, after all, inherent to the Knight class.

The danger of making the effects too extreme would of course be that a Knight focusing on, say, Logistics, Attack, Defense and Leadership would end up with 0 % chance of increasing Spellpower and Knowledge at level up (but then, the above Knight will have less use of these abilities, and it will perhaps also make a more realistic picture of his primary skills as reflected by his secondary skills).

I don't know if this would actually work, but I think it would be a fun way to make the Heroes more "customizable" and would also help out on the familiar problem of having a Knight whom you specialise in Spell Casting and still has Spell Power 1 at level 15.


I know this idea not necessarily excludes your idea, but as I said, I'm not sure the system you propose would work very well in Heroes V game, and I think the abilities take care of much of it. I do agree, however, that some additional features would be cool.
Your idea is actually quite interesting (especially useful on larger maps, I think).
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 03, 2006 10:20 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 13:18, 04 Sep 2006.

Quote:
Quote:

1) First, unlike Heroes IV, you will max out in a lot of Skills in Heroes V. In Heroes IV, each skill hosted a possible 20 level (4 x Grandmaster of 5 levels each) - in Heroes V, this number is only 6 (Basic, Advanced Expert + 3 Abilities). Thus, you fairly quickly get to maximize in 4 or 5 or 6 Skills,
Actually, in H4 you need two skills at Advanced level (not Grandmastyer), which means even faster reaching an advanced class.


That's correct, I forgot you only needed advanced level - however, that was somewhat besides my actual point, even though I did not make that very clear. What I really ment was that in Heroes IV, you rarely got to the point where you'd specializa in more than two skills. With 20 possible levels in each skill, even with Skill Altars you'd rarely get beyond 40 Skill Level increments. Thus, it made good sense to make your Advanced Classes depend only on two skills (and then a couple depending on three), because that was pretty much all you'd ever advance in.

However, in Heroes V, that's not the case. On a larger map, you will invevitably get to fill all your 6 skill slots. It therefore seems somewhat random to make the first two you obtain determine what Advanced Class you'll get. Sure, it makes sense to let a Hero proficient in both Light and Dark Magic have some reflection of this - after all, that's kind of a paradox, because each skill is more or less the epitome of good and evil - but that's what's the Twilight ability is all about.m

Also, you have to consider that at my experience at least, most of the games you'll max out you Class ability as one of the first skills - not necessarily because you want the bonus that much (Necromancers do, obviously), but also because the class Abilities are keys to many of the 'special abilities' in the other Skills. Thus, you'd have to consider whether the Class skill should help to define the Advanced class, or it should be the first two skills not including the class skill.

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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 05, 2006 01:33 PM

Comments:

Vlaad's idea is good, not least because it means there is yet more to discover as you move throughout the game for the first time. I think faction skills should not be taken into account, otherwise as was pointed out choices for advanced classes are more limited. I wonder if someone can explain the H4 skills + classes system to me or point me to a good place for reading, since I've never played the game. Alci's idea is probably my favourite, as it makes up for having only one hero class and brings back more RPG elements. Could be a bit confusing at first glance though.

Oh, and "Turncoat" is great.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 05, 2006 03:33 PM

Hi GM - Age Of Heroes (heroesofmightandmagic.com) is a good place to get a through description of the skills of Heroes IV, but I'll give you a (not quite so) brief introduction here.

The Heroes IV skill system worked with socalled Primary Skills (or Super Skills - these are somewhat similar to the "Skills" of Heroes V) and then Secondary Skills (or Sub Skills, that were sub-ordinate to the Primary Skills, a bit like Abilities of Heroes V, except you would be able to get ranks in them just like the normal skills). Each skill was available at 5 levels: Basic, Advanced, Expert, Master and Grandmaster.

The following skills were available (with their sub-skills):

TACTICS > Offense, Deffense; Leadership.
COMBAT > Melee, Archery; Magic Resistance.
SCOUTING > Logistics, Pathfinding; Navigation.
NOBILITY > Estates, Mining; Diplomacy.

LIFE MAGIC > Healing, Spirituality; Ressurection.
ORDER MAGIC > Enchantment, Wizardry; Charm.
DEATH MAGIC > Ocultisme, Demonoly; Necromancy.
CHAOS MAGIC > Conjuration, Pyromance; Sorcery.
NATURE MAGIC > Herbalism, Meditation; Summoning.

Notice that for each Super Skill, the third Sub Skill had a special status. This skill was optional, whereas you would have to increase levels more or less evenly in Super Skill and the first two Sub Skills. That was very clever, because the third Sub Skill was one that in some cases might not help the Hero because of alignment or map layout (Necromancy, Navigation, Leadership, Summoning, Charm etc.). Also, the first and second subskill in the magic classes simply worked as Mysticism and Skill booster for that particular magic school (thus, the magic skill would allow you to learn the spell, whereas the sub-skill would determine its effectivity). For further skill description, go to Age Of Heroes.

Anyway, here's the point that Vlaads idea refers to: Each faction had a Might and a Magic hero (for instance, Knight and Cleric), that would start with one Super Skill and one Sub Skill each (all knight started with Tactics / Attack, all Clerics started with Life Magic / Healing, if I remember). Now, once your Hero acquired his second level within a second skill, his class would change. Thus, if your night (Tactics) acquired Scouting, he would become a Field Marshall, if he acquired Nobility, he would become a Lord Commander, if he acquired Life Magic, he would become Crusader, etc. Each combination of two skills yielded a new advanced class, and with your advanced class, there came some special ability (thus, Tactics + Death Magic > Assassin > Hero gets poison attack; and Tactics + Chaos Magic > Pyromancer > Hero gets fire-shield (remember: Hero actually participated in combat and could be targeted) to name a few). There were even some classes that required three Skills - thus, Archmage required any three magic skills, if I remember.

There is a catch in this system, however. Once you acquired your class, it was *very* difficult to gain levels in skills that was not one of the two that belonged to your class. This was not so much of a problem, because each skill had 3 Sub Skills and each skill had 5 internal levels, meaning that you had 40 possible levels within your 2 Super Skills to max out. This was more than sufficient on most maps! However, in Heroes 5 that's not so. You can only rise 6 levels within each skill (with abilities), and thus a combination of only 2 skills is hardly enough to define your Hero. On a standard large map, you'll generally get levels in 5 or 6 skills - which will mean that you'd either have to make the classes depend on a combination of many skills (for instance Attack + Dark Magic + Logistics + Enlightenment = Ninja), or they'd end up being a bit random.


Finally, as a side note: Each Hero potentially had 6 x 4 x 5 = 120 (!) Skill levels to achieve before he was maxed out in H4. Because of the huge number of skill levels you could have, the game worked a lot with Skill Altars, that were like Treasure Chests, only they'd offer you a skill-level up within that particular skill of the altar (thus, there were Altars of Tactics, Altar of Scouting, Altar of Life, Altar of Order etc.). These were also necessary, because you would need something like put 18 levels in Death Magic before you could use 5th level spells.

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted September 05, 2006 04:01 PM

@ GM:

Take a look at H4 advanced classes here.

@ alci
Quote:
These were also necessary, because you would need something like put 18 levels in Death Magic before you could use 5th level spells.
Eighteen? The requirements for GM Death were GM Occultism and GM Demonology. Necromancy was optional. A Necromancer started with two skills at Basic, which adds up to 13 levels...

Still, you are right about everything else.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 05, 2006 05:28 PM

Sorry, my head must be put on the wrong way today. Btw. there seems to be some advanced classes missing - I seem to remember something like a "lich king" class, that required three skills like the Archmage class, but I can't see it anywhere.

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God2
God2


Adventuring Hero
Your benevolent deity
posted September 05, 2006 10:13 PM

You forgot about the most unique of all skills: Stealth
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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted September 06, 2006 07:08 AM
Edited by Vlaad at 12:37, 09 Sep 2006.

@ alci

Did you mean Archmage? You needed any three magic skills at Advanced level to gain 20% bonus to all spells. There were classes such as Lich, Witch King and Wizard King, but not Lich King.

Quote:
You forgot about the most unique of all skills: Stealth
My favorite! I miss it so much. That's what I had in mind when I started thinking of bonuses for advanced classes in H5. Sadly, like alci pointed out, such unique abilities are hard to come up with (let alone script in the editor).
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 06, 2006 09:24 AM

I did not mean the Archmage, I seem to remember one or two other classes that combined three classes. I may be wrong.

And yes, I did indeed forget stealth, that would be because Logistics and Pathfinding were one skill, so the correct list of course was SCOUTING > Pathfinding; Navigation, Stealth.

And Stealth was amazing, but also incredibly powerfull (overpowered). I always leveled up to Grandmaster Stealth, and then just stole around the entire map, flagging all mines and collecting artifacts and resources, and at the same time gaining loads of experience. And then, when I returned to my city, I had a huge army waiting for me, and it was piece of cake to go crush the AI.

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Sindbad
Sindbad


Famous Hero
The lost soul
posted September 09, 2006 10:43 AM

The firs table looks really interesting, but just too complicated and you missed something - racial skills!!! I think this feature would make H5 too complicated. And just because some lousy bonus for class?! I think it is similar to hero specialisation and if specialisations are already included to H5, this feature is not need. But I must say I like it.
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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 09, 2006 12:28 PM

Thanks very much for the information - I didn't realise H4 was so different in this area! I think it would be great to have advanced classes now, although as Alci says, with 4 skills learnt before changing class.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 09, 2006 01:43 PM

Problem is, combining the 12 skills into subskills of 4 skills each would yield some 495 advanced classes, which would probably be a bit too many. And that's not counting the class skills!

Even with only 2 skills, it'll yield a total of 66 advanced classes - that's a lot. Also, notice that there are other reasons why this wouldn't work particularly well - for instance, in Heroes IV, all Knights started with the same skill, but in Heroes V they don't. This is not necessarily a problem, it'll just make the system ... different.

Another possibility, to make the system less complicated and bring back a hint of the old Heroes 3 Might Hero and Magic hero system would be to say, all Heroes start as their basic class (Knight, Hero, Wizard), but then, they can specialize to turn into either a Might version or a Magic version. Thus, say the Knight might turn into either Crusader (might) or Cleric (magic) based on whether his first expert skill besides Training is a Might skill or a Magic skill. However, I still like better the idea of having the skills linked to the primary stats as explained above.

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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 09, 2006 04:12 PM
Edited by Gnoll_Mage at 16:14, 09 Sep 2006.

Yikes! I hadn't thought of that. I guess you could have many combinations lead to one class, although there would still be a lot of classes. Maybe your idea is good, in that you turn into one of the might/magic classes (there are equal amounts of skills in each category after all), with respective bonuses. However I agree with you that if you are going to follow this line, then the idea of affecting primary stats is certainly a good idea, so long as choosing skills changes your class and gives you a bonus as well as changing %s so that your skills match your stats.

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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 09, 2006 05:12 PM

The idea of advanced classes is very interesting, but as was mentioned before it has too many variations. A way to reduce the number of classes may be to award with only for special combination and not for everything, something like:
Archmage:all 4 magic schools
Warlord:attack, defense, luck, leadership
But this would look very much like the Ultimate Ability

The linking of the secondary and primary skills sounds very attractive, but it has it's negative side. For example, my hero is a Warlock and want him a VERY powerful mage, but the I want him to excel only in Destructive Magic, I'll also give him Sorcery for more mana points. Then I'll give him Luck for Warlock's Luck ability, Logistic for better movement and let's say Leadership. That's 1 "power" skill, 1 "knoweldge" skill 1 "attack" skill and 2 "defense" skills. But I DON'T want him to have high defense, I want him to have very high power. So this system would be a double-edged sword.

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Sindbad
Sindbad


Famous Hero
The lost soul
posted September 09, 2006 05:14 PM

Oh, I hate to be ignored...!
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Already gone...

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