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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Genies ?!
Thread: Genies ?! This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted October 06, 2006 04:41 PM

Genies ?!

In the stories I read, the Genies appear as some powerfull spirits which are able to cast incredible spells. In Heroes 5, Genies are not that great casters at all, and that is very sad, since academy would really need some more power.

I think the best thing to do is remove their random spells, and make the genie a real caster, one of the most powerfull in the games even !

Genie - same creature , same stats + caster ability !

New Spells :

- Basic Summon (Air) Elemental - because the genies are imaterial I'd go for Air Elemental only, and also for balance issues
- Advanced Haste

Spell Points 20

Master Genie

New Spells :

- Basic Summon (Air) Elemental
- Basic Phantom Forces
- Expert Haste
- Expert Eldrich Arrow

Spell Points 30

I don't know if this would be too powerfull, but I think it would make the Genies a lot more attractive, and the whole Academy faction more powerfull

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diablo-jr
diablo-jr


Adventuring Hero
posted October 06, 2006 05:18 PM

I would have to agree that the genie has fallen from power.I remember when the genie was a caracter to be afraid of.just with there raw power and attack never mind there spell ability.they need to bring the genie back to its former grace.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted October 06, 2006 05:36 PM

I doubt it would be fair to see the h5 genies have the power their cousins from eastern myths have.As I see it there are a few problems with what you propose:Elementals is one.When a hero summons elementals any elementals in the battlefield go where they came from so it can't be cumulative with the hero.As with elementals coming from Zehir's specialty.Phantom forces is another.It was one of the main reasons that motw was nerfed but even this way two clones can be created simultaneously.A 3rd one from the genies would be two much.I admit I'd like to choose my buffs/debuffs though.But way the genie's spells wouldn't be ability-like and it would be possible to learn these spells with arcane intuition.Learning all dark spell up to lvl 3 from a friendly creature is a bit cheap anyway.Keeping the same casting system and adding an offensive spell on djinn sultans(not normal ones lest academy has 2 casters and 1 ranged earlygame) would be great.For now tweaking their low health is more of a priority to their available spells I believe.
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dfortae
dfortae


Known Hero
posted October 06, 2006 07:52 PM

Yes, the genies do need a buff.  But we shouldn't go overboard.  I agree with the hit point increase as the solution.

Increase their hit points by 25% and then be finished.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 06, 2006 08:28 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 20:28, 06 Oct 2006.

genie specialist would be a good thing too. They deal more damage than most level6 (!) units, they even top some level 7 ones, so they cannot be buffed too much.

By the way, on what level do they cast their spells?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted October 07, 2006 12:06 AM

Advanced which is pretty effective.There are few creatures with expert, being the druid elders who have endurance(+12!),archmages with cleansing and archliches with weakness.Somehow I like this random nature of genies,it can make you hate or praise them with the spells' timing
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Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 09, 2006 12:45 AM

I must say that the 33HP is quite sad. They were weak in H3 too, but they were fast and therefore could easily fly safe from attacking enemies. H5 Genies are not safe anywhere as they are , umm, fat. I think  developers should have understood that a large fragile creature is not very usefull, as with academy u have other fragile creatures too.

If something is to be done with them, it should be
a) with the size (not gonna happen, and wouldn't be fair considering other factions)
b) with its vulnerability (HP or defence)
c) an ability*

*The ability could be something like a Mirage, that the genie takes only 50% of the damage done to it on the first physical attack.

Of course, a loss in damage is acceptable, if somethin like this were to happen. As was with ghosts.

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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted October 09, 2006 08:48 AM

Their HPs are very low indeed... but that could be overseen if they had a really nice ability. Their Random Casting ability is not a great ability, that's for sure. About the Phantom Forces issue, I must say the Academy doesn't have a powerfull stack that can break the game, and cloning it would mean game over... so more clones are needed, the more the better

I'm not saying, that giving them Phantom Forces is a must, but it would really be nice! And also it would really fit in the academy faction schemes , of a full magic town

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Ra2
Ra2


Adventuring Hero
The good doctor
posted October 09, 2006 09:17 AM
Edited by Ra2 at 09:23, 09 Oct 2006.

yes I also agree that the genie is too fragile. their casting ability is frustrating and their speed is betrayed by their poor stats as they take too much dmg on retal.

what should be done:
-HP increase (what dfortae said seems reasonable) OR
-give the possibility to choose the spell they cast OR
-give them an attack spell (and maybe allow a single cast.. but this can lead to imbalance since academy already has 3 ranged attackers) OR
-give them an ability... something really nice.. not too powerfull though... something like moderately increasing the innitiative of allies for one turn (something like a mass dash) ... and of course the genie must lose his turn to use this ability.


mass haste and illusion are too powerfull to give to any creature in the game even lvl 7 letalone 5.

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diablo-jr
diablo-jr


Adventuring Hero
posted October 12, 2006 01:50 PM

the genies of old had no control over there spells either it could be usefull or completely nasty.but it was there meele attack that made you think twice about attacking them.and thats what they lack now there nothing compared to the genie's of old.
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Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 12, 2006 04:05 PM

Quote:
but it was there meele attack that made you think twice about attacking them.and thats what they lack now there nothing compared to the genie's of old.


LOL, the "genies of old" were just as sucky as these are. Lets compare the upgrades, H3 Master Genies do 13-16 damage with attack skill of 12.
H5 Djinn Sultans do 16-22 damage with attack skill of 15.  They both have 40HP. H5 version can cast blesses or curses. H5 Djinn Sultans have +2 growth compared to H3 counterpart.

So it seems that H5 Djinn Sultans are WAY better than h3 ones.

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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted October 13, 2006 12:56 AM

The genies of old that I remember had a large % chance to halve the enemy unit!

I'm not a big fan of genies now but they aren't completely useless.
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.

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sylvian_prince
sylvian_prince


Hired Hero
the ranged hanter
posted October 13, 2006 02:14 PM

the genie must be a caster! if not it not a genie... but not an ofencive one! academy is very powerfull when i play with academy i always win(unless the openent is a necro and he has 3-4 difrent castles...).... im plaing without the genie's sow i think if the genie will be a caster like druid or pit lord the academy will be unbeateble!!! and if the genie will have a phantom force and elemental wow...he will became the moast powerfull creature no it is to much... yes it will be atractive...but if you gave the genie all the spells it whould be atractive 2...so if its up to you and you wana gave the genie a great spells its ok by me but....gave to the sprites the same spell's after all the sprits casters to.. and they will became more atractive
my sagestion:
+15 hp
caster: slow,haste,cleansing,bless,confusion,decay+ a random spell on the enemy after atacking him...
something like that will do i think...

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diablo-jr
diablo-jr


Adventuring Hero
posted October 13, 2006 02:19 PM

the genies in heroes 1&2 weren't spell casters but they had that nasty ability to half your stack with one attack.and for some reason the genies in heroes 3,4,5 seem to be lacking that ability but replaced with random spell casting.I would love to see the genies go back to there past glory like in heroes 1&2.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted October 13, 2006 02:25 PM

True,but that's why they were neutral.If they acquired their long lost powers they could no longer remain in a faction without creating imbalances.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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diablo-jr
diablo-jr


Adventuring Hero
posted October 13, 2006 04:49 PM

Well I could live with them going back to being a neutraul creature just like the elementals.and bring back another creatuer to replace them in the town.lets say seems there desert army go with the sphinx as a replacement.or even the antlion he's a desert monster.what do you think?
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Demortae
Demortae


Adventuring Hero
posted October 14, 2006 12:13 AM

Ok, how about giving the academy a high offense, low defense, expendably cheap unit?  Ok then, we'll just stick with genies the way they are then.  Useless, you say?  Highest damage and growth (with cove) for their tier, and only the nightmare is cheaper.  Oh, and their growth increase building happens to give a nice boost to your income....

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 14, 2006 11:15 AM

their weekly damage tops emerald dragons+they are fast and have incredible initiative, that makes them one of the most damaging unit in the game. Making them durable would mean making them imbalanced, I guess.

Ok, +5hp wouldn't hurt, but nothing more.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted October 15, 2006 03:05 PM

Quote:
their weekly damage tops emerald dragons+they are fast and have incredible initiative, that makes them one of the most damaging unit in the game. Making them durable would mean making them imbalanced, I guess.

Ok, +5hp wouldn't hurt, but nothing more.


Wisely said. To my experience, Genies are very usefull, you just have to hold them back and only use them to take out singled out stacks in order to avoid retaliation. With top Initiative, Damage and Growth, you can't expect top HP and still keep it ballanced!

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted October 15, 2006 03:52 PM

Something that could be done as far as their spellcasting goes would be to make them unable to cast the same spell again on the same target(unless the duration has expired).I hate it when they cast 2-3 times weakness on a stack
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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