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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: I'm looking for a grain of sand. You have a desert
Thread: I'm looking for a grain of sand. You have a desert
TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted November 18, 2006 01:29 PM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 13:31, 18 Nov 2006.

I'm looking for a grain of sand. You have a desert

Bear with me here.


Imagine you have a huge box, full of puzzle pieces. Each of these puzzle pieces has a unique shade/colour on it, and they're all jumbled up. What are the chances, that after shaking the box up, the pieces are perfectly assembled into DaVinci's Mona Lisa?









For some reason I thought about why there is so much sand in the deserts.

Basically, in the beginning, all the matter in the universe is flung out from an exploding singularity, creating space and time. Gravity and the other forces were exactly optimum so that the matter was attracted together through the forces, grouping in swirling balls of mass, and not too strong that it all collapsed upon itself, or too weak that it kept flying out forever, spread out; not too fast, not too slow, just perfect.
As these cooled down, it gave way to planets. This gave way to oceans, atmosphere, and rocks, as the various puzzle pieces reacted in certain ways. The oceans gave way to basic lifeforms, which made the air liveable. The rocks begun the rock cycle of metamorphic->igneous->sedimentary etc, which through the shifting tectonic plates gave way to continents of land. Through weathering, the sedimentary rock deposited breaks down into sand, and with no rain, this forms the deserts. However, rain from the water cycle gave way to plants from the puzzle pieces once more, with the plant cycle giving way to soil and forests, grassland. All this and weathering gave way to our ideal landscape. The basic lifeforms evolved from the sea in a series of optimum circumstances to form sentient and powerful humans.


Through the evolution of humans, the world developed shelter, warmth, sustainence, technology, and eventually, just as a valley is formed through a river, things such as the Empire State building have basically assembled themselves with nothing but heat energy,
and made the Mona Lisa out of the jumbled puzzle pieces of the world.


All that aside, think of it this way; we didn't make this painting. It wasn't the work of Da Vinci. The atoms assembled themselves into the paint and canvas and applied themselves on the board, in the swirl of the chaos theory. What are the chances of that?









WHAT I'M SAYING IS, in the complete unlikeliness of this all, how is it possible that it will happen more than once, not to mention many times over?
You only have to turn to the alien threads on this board to realize that I am an avid supporter of the theory of aliens, and would be the first to tell you that it is not only stupid but selfish to believe that there are no other sentient lifeforms in this universe.

But when you think about it this way, about the grains of sand in the desert, it seems much less plausible.

And that they are close enough to be within our reach? It's an interesting way to think about it.





It seems unlikely that skyscrapers could form out of molecules, but the fact that I can see one out my window is almost proof enough, no?
Perhaps the estimates of the universe aren't that big, when you're thinking in these terms, let's call it in terms of the sand in the desert. You can have a whole desert, but it's still very unlikely that one of the grains is in the shape of a Rolls Royce.

But what if, metaphorically speaking as usual, there isn't just the one desert?

What if, this is not the only universe?
By definition, this is impossible. The universe is everything. There cannot be another everything. But, as mentioned in the Godlike and Infinite thread, there could be parallel universes, each with different rules and starting points, or in terms of the puzzle box, each shaken differently.

If you have x universes (x being an extremely large number), each with x planets inside, it becomes much more likely that we're here, so to speak.





Either way, it makes you appreciate the roof you're under alot more.
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John says to live above hell.

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted November 19, 2006 04:34 AM

No one gets it...
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Aculias
Aculias


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posted November 19, 2006 05:39 PM

Revalution
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violent_flower
violent_flower


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Almost there.
posted November 19, 2006 05:42 PM

Find the grain of sand first and the desert will follow...
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!

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frostwolf
frostwolf


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livin' in a bottle of vodka
posted November 19, 2006 10:40 PM

Quote:


What if, this is not the only universe?
By definition, this is impossible. The universe is everything. There cannot be another everything.







Hate to burst your bubble here, but it is mathematicaly proved that there is an infinite number of universes. As a mathematician once explained to me 'don't try to picture it. if you try to visualise it, you wont't be able to understand it. it can only be shown trough mathematics'.
____________
What can you expect from a world where everybody lives because they're too afraid to commit suicide?


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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted November 20, 2006 09:09 AM

Quote:

Hate to burst your bubble here, but it is mathematicaly proved that there is an infinite number of universes. As a mathematician once explained to me 'don't try to picture it. if you try to visualise it, you wont't be able to understand it. it can only be shown trough mathematics'.



thanks for the bubble bursting, but if you read on you'll see that I don't think that. I was only saying that universe literally means everything, but now we take it to mean the space in which our galaxy exists.



But it's also 'mathematically proven' that there is >90% chance that we are living in a virtual reality (like the matrix).
Like this, I think it's possible that there are other universes, but not proven.
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John says to live above hell.

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kookastar
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posted November 20, 2006 09:17 AM

Quote:
mathematically proven' that there is >90% chance that we are living in a virtual reality (like the matrix)


Wow...

Sometimes I do feel like this is all a dream, that we are not really here... the flesh sensation though is pretty amazing.

Where does this reasoning and maths come from?
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uhuh

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted November 20, 2006 09:28 AM

Yeah, like in Celfious thread, it's quite scary to realize that you can't even take for granted that reality is real.. lol.




Well basically if humans, or any other intelligent species, evolves to become advanced enough, it is easy for any number of artificial intelligences to be made within a virtual reality, the product of programming and computers, and it is possible for entire planets of artificial people to be made within one computer.
I think the reasoning is that if, for every one human who ever lived, there are 9 artificial creations of simlulations (this is an estimate, the number of simulations is almost unlimited), then both the biological people and the artificial people would think that they are in fact real people living in a real planet.

But 90% would be wrong.



I dno. There must be something wrong with the argument, it's just hard to tell what
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John says to live above hell.

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friendofgunnar
friendofgunnar


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posted November 20, 2006 10:45 AM

You know what the latest theories are,right?

The "Big Rip"

Space is expanding at an ever increasing rate.  Eventually the entire universe will expand exponentially faster until galaxies, then solar systems, then planets, then molecules, then atoms will all be ripped apart into thinly spread particles.  Everything will become subatomic vapor.

Sweet dreams


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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted November 20, 2006 11:35 AM

'galactic soup' they call it.
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John says to live above hell.

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Seraphim
Seraphim


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posted February 01, 2008 04:29 PM

Yeah,great x numbers of universes may explain even the creation and loop of birth and death.But I am asking what is the end of universe?I mean not end(death)but edge where there is no more of it but something else?Can you imagine traveling infinitely through space and gone to some dark regions with no stars?

Everything is limited in universe.Time is no value,numbers are not,stars are finite,atoms are too so things are not simple but far complex and beyond our imagination.


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"Science is not fun without cyanide"

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted February 04, 2008 12:26 PM

Seraphim this thread discusses almost exactly that:

The end of the universe.


Proposals to become godlike and infinite

Probably one of the most interesting threads in HC even if it is just fantasy
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John says to live above hell.

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