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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Poll - Should Spells Be Affected By Defense?
Thread: Poll - Should Spells Be Affected By Defense? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
dfortae
dfortae


Known Hero
posted January 14, 2007 05:47 PM

Poll Question:
Poll - Should Spells Be Affected By Defense?

Should spells be affected by defense (not necessarily the same way as physical, but SOME kind of effect)?  I find hero spells a cheap way to bypass high level unit armor.

Responses:
Yes - Should be same as physical attacks
Yes - Should be 1/2 as much as physical attacks
Yes - Other
No
 View Results!

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shalindar
shalindar

Tavern Dweller
posted January 14, 2007 06:03 PM

I don't think so since you can already get magic resistance for spells.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 14, 2007 06:12 PM

No. That's what the point is and also imagine how knights would be even more fearsome If units received a resistance factor just like Age of Wonders that would be fine by me by defense becoming even more powerful, no that WOULD be cheap.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 14, 2007 06:35 PM

No way.

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Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 14, 2007 06:38 PM

Well, pretty much what Elvin said. Also the spells are supposed to work that way, that is what makes them different from physical attack. In the long run damage spells cannot compete with the physical damage and they could do so even to a MUCH lesser extent if defence was taken into account.

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radar
radar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
posted January 14, 2007 07:03 PM

And another vote for 'No'

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dschingi
dschingi


Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
posted January 14, 2007 07:09 PM

No

Otherwise it would take a lot of variety from the game
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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted January 14, 2007 10:37 PM

I think it's better to increase Level 7 hp. For example,
Academy base level 6 growth: 2 Rakshasa Raja = 280 hp
Academy base level 7 growth: 1 Titan = 190 hp
so imho Titans should have at least 280 hp  
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 14, 2007 10:48 PM

They'd never die in quantities and they are shooters...Plus mini arties can make them pretty much impervious to magic.
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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted January 14, 2007 11:47 PM

Well, when I was writing this I had a picture of Dougal and his zounds of marksman in my head and I thought it was good to improve things in Level 7. But now, when I see Academy vs Dungeon I don't think a simple + X hp to all level 7 would do any good at all. Oh well..

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 15, 2007 01:18 AM

It's a matter of time until training gets rebalanced anyway. Just days away
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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted January 15, 2007 07:37 AM

Hn? Did i just sence that you know something? Elvin! Are there finally a new patch around the corner? Hn? because that would be nice, since they suck at releasing patches

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 15, 2007 07:53 AM

Just before 1.4 came out it was clarified that 1.5 will have changes in training and necromancy. And 2.1/1.5 should have come out by now but obviously Nival likes to take things slow Actually 2.1 will come before 1.5 and another mini patch for multiplayer even faster.
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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 15, 2007 09:25 AM

Answer is simple NO! It could be possible that the creatures would have Magic Defense\Spirit\Evade like in some rpg games but in Heroes V i think it's too late for thinking things like that. Maybe in next heroes who knows but it's allways been that defense has no effect on magics.

Making creatures more natural defenses could hurt the allready weaker destructive spell compared to Light\Dark magic for instance.

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Dungeonian
Dungeonian


Adventuring Hero
Supreme matriarch
posted January 15, 2007 10:34 AM

No , of cause ! There is magic resistance perks and artefacts in the game , they can reduce spell damage amount or even decline some spells completely .
Defence is enough powerful because physical attacks are more common tham magic ones .
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted January 15, 2007 03:39 PM

I vote no. Magic is not affected by defense/armor, especially spells like Eldritch Arrow (which deal non-physical damage). Only enchanted artifacts that your hero can get can reduce the damage or increase resistance.. or abilities

Tier 7 hp rebalanced?? Ok, but this also means you should increas base growth for the other creatures, 'cause tier 7s would be overpowered this way! Also note Rakshasas are extremely durable, in my opinion, even a bit overpowered, note as "creatures", this does NOT include the "weak" might hero academy's weak bonuses.. but as creatures, they are very tough. Try to compare them with Wraiths, or others (except the uber-tank treant, of course).

In my opinion, most academy creatures are overpowered, but the Hero's stats and the town costs are just silly. Why silly? Because you almost never get to use all your mana, and this means wasted stats (knowledge is simply a weak skill if you have too much, it just won't do you any better to have 300 mana if you don't have the time to use it).
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 15, 2007 03:54 PM

Quote:
In my opinion, most academy creatures are overpowered, but the Hero's stats and the town costs are just silly. Why silly? Because you almost never get to use all your mana, and this means wasted stats (knowledge is simply a weak skill if you have too much, it just won't do you any better to have 300 mana if you don't have the time to use it).


Overpowered? Which ones?
The resource costs are silly because the dwellings are resource intensive while you also need high lvl spells and arties asap.
But now I see that the high knowledge is fine. I'd rather have more power but the mana does end after 1.3. As it is now, summon a couple of phoenixes, cast some motw spells, some mines and watch it go down rapidly. Of course that is in a big battle, handling the creeps requires few spells which you regenerate by the next day(s).
300 mana is out of reach unless you get enlightenment, intelligence AND artifacts but the more, the better as it affects mini-arties too. Some of them require over 15 knowledge to be effective as luck and speed ones.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted January 15, 2007 04:19 PM

Quote:
The resource costs are silly because the dwellings are resource intensive while you also need high lvl spells and arties asap.
I said the creatures, not the dwellings.. The "creatures" themselves

Quote:
Overpowered? Which ones?

Gremlin's repair is a bonus to skellies, same growth (boost is a wasted "special" slot, where academy has artie merchant).

Obsidian Gargoyles are just plain too powerful for blocking enemy archers, or guarding your own archers, too durable (also see that buying the entire weekly population is the MOST expensive than all other factions, which leads us to the fact that they are overpowered, since buying their population is more "powerful" than other factions' tier 2 populations).

Steel Golems? Unlike Minotaurs, they do a hell lot damage (remember they have more growth), and are much better statistically in stats.. Plus they have 75% Magic reduction, and Unlimited Retaliation...

Mages.. Of course with the No range penalty and a decent position, targetting 3 enemy stacks in a line is fairly dangerous.. Plus the spells are not bad too, considering their masteries

Djinns.. Undoubtely, they do the highest damage of all tier 5s. They are fragile, but damage dealers.. In short, they are the opposite of tanks

Rakshasas are the most overpowered creatures. Especially the Upgraded versios, just look at the damage increase from the Rakshasa Rani.. And it costs LESS than an Wraith, and it's more powerful overall!

Titans are not overpowered.. The only fair creatures in Academy, probably that's why people find them weak.


In short, the "creatures" are overpowered.. The Academy town overall (with dwellings, heroes, etc.), is NOT..

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Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted January 15, 2007 08:17 PM

The whole concept of HOMMM is that Migh and Magic are like Apples and Oranges - Two different strategies, and therefore complies to different laws.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 15, 2007 09:25 PM

Quote:

Gremlin's repair is a bonus to skellies, same growth (boost is a wasted "special" slot, where academy has artie merchant).

Obsidian Gargoyles are just plain too powerful for blocking enemy archers, or guarding your own archers, too durable (also see that buying the entire weekly population is the MOST expensive than all other factions, which leads us to the fact that they are overpowered, since buying their population is more "powerful" than other factions' tier 2 populations).

Djinns.. Undoubtely, they do the highest damage of all tier 5s. They are fragile, but damage dealers.. In short, they are the opposite of tanks

Rakshasas are the most overpowered creatures. Especially the Upgraded versios, just look at the damage increase from the Rakshasa Rani.. And it costs LESS than an Wraith, and it's more powerful overall!


Maybe. Still there is no point is seeing it this way.

With skellies there is necromancy and iirc to upg them you need no ore.

Gargoyles for all their advantages, they cannot in any way be used offensively. I prefer them this way but...

Djinns die asap. Simple as that. Other units will survive battles while they won't.

Rakshasa rajas are a pain to upg. Very useful overall but they are not much on the offensive due to their masters' might weakness.

To power these up you need many resources and even then they rely on the wizard's magic support. I do agree though that if they fought a haven army both with heroes of 0 stats and no magic that they would be a lot more effective
In short I don't refute your claims but I see it more on the practical side.
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