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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Armageddon Strategies
Thread: Armageddon Strategies This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted January 10, 2007 10:45 PM
Edited by Darkeye at 22:57, 10 Jan 2007.

Armageddon Strategies

After the Warlock got Irresistable Magic, they couldn't perform the Armageddon+Black dragon trick just as easy as before; but still there is a niche for the Warlock who wants to forfeit the way of the elements.

If you only get Empowered spells and never exceed the basic irr magic, you "only" get 20% damage to your single stack of blakcies when blasting the enemy.

Empowered armageddon with Warlocks luck, and perhaps a Phoenix cape (+50% Fire damage) and Master of Fire, will rock - and is surely a better alternative than going for expert light magic and magical immunity (wasting a whole turn for that spell to set in).

So the 20% "sacrifice" would be worth it.
I guess the worst sacrifice is to skip "Elemental vision" and therby not getting extra damage from this.

With the Fortress, you could now combine Armageddon straight with the Lava/Magmaa dragons which is great.

Any comments for other strategies?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 10, 2007 11:23 PM

There are ways to exploit it. Both with dungeon and dwarves you'll want to take luck. So why not get resistance? Warlocks will still do half damage but oh well! Dwarves can get dwarven luck for two 15% rolls. Resistance artifacts help and dungeon can buy some.
Protection is also good to have but you'll probably never have it with a warlock.
Also it's fun to lure an enemy at the center of the battlefield. Just place a unit there and he'll attack. Then he'll take double damage since he'll take the meteor damage too! Any creature in these 4 tiles is just a goner.
Dungeon can sacrifice its main hero and still win. Once I cornered a warlock in a town with some pack of peasants and stuff and I thought how sweet it was...only to see him cast an empowered lucky armageddon. His secondary came and killed what was left...
Dwarves are sadists. Get ignite and watch ALL units(except their dragons) take damage per round. I love it even when my troops are hurt,BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH!!!
Good to use when you have many chaos hydras and the opponent has many smaller stacks.
Finally leaving strategies behind, armageddon is the best way to go down with dignity.Especially if you can see your opponent's face!
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Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 10, 2007 11:39 PM

Sylvan. As Destructive oriented you can find Armageddon from your guild. Under Light magic you can fing Fire Resistance, giving you a 50% damage reduction. Now with Treants left only, you can finish the opponent with Armageddon. Treants can't do damage, but they can take the punch. You may have even more protection from other abilities or artifacts, further reducing damage. Especially potent, when you can lure the opponent to the middlesquere, even bind them there with Treants, and cast for 2x damage.

Academy. Can have Armageddon in guild. You have Gargoyles, you may deploy them only on the battlefield and cast Armageddon. In your normal army, you also have Steel Golems with 75% damage reduction. You can make miniartifacts for the rest of the troops, usally up to 70% damage reduction, which allows you to deal great damage suffering only little yourself. Again, almost a must if the enemy occupies the central squares.

Then you mentioned Dwarwes, and even Dungeon. I can't see others using it. Inferno has also Fire Resistance under Light Magic, but that is a rarity you are unlikely to see. And their troops aren't durable in the first place. Can work in addition to Summon PitLord from Archdevil, but only if you have somekind of protection from it (artifact and abilities)

A few questions if anyone knows.. Does Unicorns magical aura affect your own (destructive)spells? Can you resist your own Armageddon? That would help with the possibilities of Armageddon for Sylvan.

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Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted January 11, 2007 12:37 AM

Thanks for the tips there guys. I had totally forgot about the ignite ability. Isn't it a bit owerpowered to have both magma dragons as well as ignite?
What are the dwarves primary stats again? Not SP is it?
And those Gargoyles, I had not thought about either.
With Necromancers you could even slam an armageddon and raise the stack back after. But you wouldn't have the samme access to the spell in the guild though.
I though about resistance and MR, yes, that is always good to have. Since the main hero of the Warlock campaign starts with defence, it could be tempting next time to try the armageddon strategy on expert.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 11, 2007 02:20 PM

no, it's not overpowered... SP isn't as high as dwarven heroes' DEF, and ignite does not 100% spell damage per turn, but 33% of the original damage per turn. Besides, you need level 5 guild, ridiculously costly dwelling of magma dragons and some luck to get arma spell. So, no, it's not overpowered.

Academy hero with great knowledge (to get good +resistance mini arties) and perhaps some artifacts aswell can really kick butts with armageddon.  without killing too much of his own creatures in the process.


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Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted January 11, 2007 09:56 PM

So what are the dwarves primary stats again?
And which spell schools are they focesed on?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 11, 2007 09:58 PM

Defence and SP
Light and Destuctive.

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Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted January 12, 2007 12:02 AM
Edited by Darkeye at 00:16, 12 Jan 2007.

Then the dwarves are among the best candidates for this strategy, with high SP, magma/lava dragons, ignita and dwarven luck. Swift mind is also great for blasting early.
If you have a really high level hero with mentor, you could easily train several armageddon specialists quick and give them a few lava dragons each to blast their way through the map. Great!

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 12, 2007 08:45 AM

oughh, "high" SP stands for 6-8 at level 15 or so.. like warlock's attack, it increases, but way slower than defense. So.. I don't think you'll have the power needed to turn arma into a killer.

If you really want, pick enlightment obviously ;p

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GenieLord
GenieLord


Honorable
Legendary Hero
posted January 12, 2007 11:42 PM

About the Armageddon: As it is, I don't think it's a very useful magic.
To damage all the creatures it's like doing the battle shorter, it's kind of pointless.

The idea is to use it with smart tactics and strategies.
Even having very high magical immunity when you play agaist stronger army is a nice one.
If you don't have good tactics, having it in the spellbook probebly won't help you in the game.

So I think it's a great thread, becuase everyone (I hope) gives his tactics, and everyone can learn new tactics.
And I actually think that in this version of HOMM there was almost nothing to do with this spell, mabey just casting it when there are dragons on the battlefield.
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Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted January 13, 2007 12:47 AM
Edited by Darkeye at 00:48, 13 Jan 2007.

Runes can be pretty useful too if you don't have Lava dragons. Rune of Elemental Immunity gives you a 50% chance of not taking damage, and Rune of Ressurection can be used after an armageddon shower.

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted January 14, 2007 02:19 PM

Well yeah, Armaggedon is pretty useless (not always) but i find Implosion much worse. I think it's the worst level 5 spell (come on, it just deals double damage than the Lightning Bolt (EXPERT), but the Mana cost is more than three times! and you don't have any Master of ... for implosion)

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted January 14, 2007 02:31 PM

...It's not H3 but come on!
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 14, 2007 04:14 PM

Quote:
Well yeah, Armaggedon is pretty useless (not always) but i find Implosion much worse. I think it's the worst level 5 spell (come on, it just deals double damage than the Lightning Bolt (EXPERT), but the Mana cost is more than three times! and you don't have any Master of ... for implosion)


I guess it's a balnace issue. Imagine a warlock with 15 SP (nothing hard to get with enlightment and some arties) and emerald slippers (which appear often on the map and can be bought in the artifact shop in their town - they are cheap..) casting lucky empowered implosion (and they always have warlock's luck and empowered spells). It will do 2600 damage, which can kill - say - almost 14 titans! : O Ofc getting a lucky spell ain't that common without +luck arties, but still.. that's a lot. Had it used the heroes 3 implo damage formula (80+80), it would kill 27 TITANS and it's not too hard to get in fact (15 SP isn't really THAT much, I've had 19 with a level 16 warlock once without much problem) contrary to the effort and time you have to spend to get 27 titans. No, the damage can't be any higher, or playing vs. warlock would be pointless without counterspell.

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted January 14, 2007 10:06 PM

Empowered Armageddon just after Imperial Griffins battle dive can be pretty good. Creeps "see" small griff army, split into 3-4 stack, battle  starts, battle dive place where griffins stand, creeps doesnt move, arma meteor falls, all creatures on screen die. If not, repeat.  
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted January 15, 2007 04:23 PM

Quote:
I guess it's a balnace issue. Imagine a warlock with 15 SP (nothing hard to get with enlightment and some arties) and emerald slippers (which appear often on the map and can be bought in the artifact shop in their town - they are cheap..) casting lucky empowered implosion (and they always have warlock's luck and empowered spells). It will do 2600 damage, which can kill - say - almost 14 titans!
Imagine a warlock with 15 SP, and emerald slippers casting lucky empowered Meteor Shower on 4 or more of your stacks, and do 5760 damage total.. See why Implosion is weak?

Remember, Implosion can be Magic Mirrored, Meteor Shower not

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 15, 2007 06:52 PM

yeah, well, usually it's better to eliminate the biggest threat, not the whole group. I would implode marksmen and skeletons rather then meteor showering haven/necro's army.

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted January 15, 2007 07:03 PM
Edited by TheDeath at 19:11, 15 Jan 2007.

Well I think it doesn't matter.. if you kill 144 marksmen, or 14 paladins.. the damage each does (144 marksmen vs 14 paladins) is nearly the same (of course you would argue about marksmen).. simply put it this way: you have split your marksmen in 7 stacks (not a good thing to do, but it's just an example)..

Each stack does minor damage compared to what it would've done if it were only 1 stack, but ALL OF THEM combined do almost the same damage as if it were a stack.

So killing 144 marksmen and 14 Paladins is not worse than killing 288 marksmen, for example. Otherwise the Paladins would do heavier damage, while the marksmen weaker damage (of course not taking into account hero abilitites for marksmen or paladin boosts).

So in short, unless the enemy has few stacks, Implosion sucks!

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Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted January 15, 2007 08:09 PM

Armageddon should be very useful in campaigns where SP may reach over 30. In the Dungeon Campaign I used Emp Implosion very often and had 5 (Warlocks) Luck - making 50% of the time, Thats over 2700 damage on average or 4000 with slippers. Then with expert sorcery it gets pretty potent.
With armageddon it would be 2000-3000(with phoenix cape) respectively. With basic irr magic this would in case of using black dragons result in a loss of 2-3 creatures for each casting. It could be interesting trying this strategy on the last scenario where you pass all those huge garrisons.

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted January 15, 2007 08:44 PM
Edited by sdfx at 20:45, 15 Jan 2007.

Well, in campaigns high level warlock doesn't even need any army. He simply kills enemy heroes and their, for some reason, clustered armies with 1-2 empowered meteor shower. If battle gets tougher it's nice to summon a Phoenix that will distract AI from killing your fodders/army. Of course Enlightment + Intelligence is an obvious choice for a campaign warlock.

I'm not sure whether u can surrender/retreat in campaign but if u could then the game would become pretty silly
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