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| Thread: Necro Nerfing ++ |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 13, 2007 12:48 PM |
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About the Pillar of Bones stuff: I really don't think Necromancy should increase with the level of the hero at all. I mean, look at the other racials - do they increase with the level?
Well artificial also increases with knowledge (I mean the effectiveness of the arties).
Quote:
About the Necromancy percentages and amount of DE: I agree the percentages are just WAAY too high. This just makes you fight with 1-2 neutrals and then don't attack something else because you won't be able to raise more creatures (if you care about raising creatures, that is). I think they should be decreased to the 2.0 ones (or a little more) to make you fight with more neutrals until the end of the week.
I think Nival exaggerated here, just as they did with the super-cheap training costs 
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 13, 2007 01:11 PM |
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Quote:
Well artificial also increases with knowledge (I mean the effectiveness of the arties).
No. That's the thing you PAY for those mini-arties because Basic Artificier does not do something with the level of the hero.
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Pomo
Famous Hero
The lone peasant
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posted March 13, 2007 01:28 PM |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 13, 2007 01:44 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Well artificial also increases with knowledge (I mean the effectiveness of the arties).
No. That's the thing you PAY for those mini-arties because Basic Artificier does not do something with the level of the hero.
Death is right: Higher level Hero generally means higher Knowledge.
Effectivenes of Artifacts increase with Knowledge, because the added number increases with knowledge - thus, Initiative bonus = knowledge % (capped at 50), Armor damaging bonus is Knowledge/15 + 1 (always rounded down), etc.
Personally, I think it's fine that DE increases with Hero level. It makes sense logically: A more powerfull necromancer has more DE.
EDIT > Oh, and one more thing ZombieLord: I like the reasoning about adding DE depending on the level of Necromancy, but with the current system where you have a joined pool, it'll proove disastrous for balance. You can have expert Necromancy at level 3, with a bit of luck, which requires only two learning stones. If all of your Heroes add a lot of DE to your pool for each Necromancy level, you can easily buy 6 Heroes and level them up to Expert Necromancy to increase your pool size a lot.
Even if you haven't got a joined pool, I like the level dependancy better, because it'll ensure that the bonus comes only later in game, whereas the skill dependancy potentially will give you a bonus very early.
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 13, 2007 02:18 PM |
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Well yes, I was not talking about a general pool because it doesn't make sense if you have two heroes to raise more with one of them.
EDIT: you're right, my system would be fatal for multiple necromancers. The thing is, I think only one hero should have a DE pool but I know it's a silly idea
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 13, 2007 02:43 PM |
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In my opinion pre 2.1 necro was overpowered in comparison to other factions. I didn't lose single game that lasted longer than 3 weeks back then. After 2.1 on the other hand i find necro really underpowered. I haven't played much with it after the nerf but i get the feeling that DE pool should be doubled in order to stay competitive.
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 13, 2007 02:45 PM |
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What are you talking about? You can Raise up to 200 skellies per week (with Pillar ofc)... isn't that enough?
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 13, 2007 02:52 PM |
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Just a tip: With the new DE system, it's much better to take high level creatures than low level. Because it is based on the exp rating, which is not fair, and favors high level creatures.
So yeah, go for Liches, Wights and possibly sucky-spectrals. Vampires may be good, but keep the tip in mind though 
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 13, 2007 02:56 PM |
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It may be 200 when u have really good hero and u raise normal skeletons.. then yes. But looking at things how they usually look like its that u can get around 100 first week 150 second and not much more third while old necro in 4th week got around 1000k . ok this is nerf but those numbers that i gave are with the assumption that u have right creatures on map. besides all points that Doomforge gave , still apply, and thats is serious drawback.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 13, 2007 02:59 PM |
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TheDeath: yes it might be better i just cant stand the fact that i replace my 2k skellies with 20 wrights
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 13, 2007 03:26 PM |
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TheDeath: yes it might be better i just cant stand the fact that i replace my 2k skellies with 20 wrights
Of course it's not a good trade, otherwise it would not help out with nerfing Necropolis (which was required).
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 13, 2007 03:31 PM |
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i know , i just think its a ripoff  and there should be more like 2k for 40 or so
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 13, 2007 03:38 PM |
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umm.. 40 wraights, you say.. well, that's the exact power of skeleton archers, plus it's a lot tougher. That would be a nice BUFF, but really unwanted..
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 13, 2007 03:43 PM |
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40 Wraiths? Come on, how do you think other factions will achieve such a high bonus as Necro? I don't think any other Racial will be as good as Necromancy and thus Necro will be overpowered... again
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 13, 2007 03:44 PM |
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So let me see . u get 20 wrights after few weeks of searching DE planing and all that stuff and heaven trains 20 palladins each week without moving from his castle right?
Of course money is involve but ive found out that u can afford that on some maps.
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted March 13, 2007 03:47 PM |
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First of all, you can't train 20 paladins per week, only 13. Here's why:
To train a Peasant to a Paladin for example requires to train him to Archer, Footman, Priest and then to Paladin. This means you waste four points and thus won't be able to train 20 Peasants -> Paladins.
So here's the perfect combo:
6 Priests -> 6 Paladins
7 Footmen -> 7 Priests
7 Priests -> 7 Paladins
this means you will have 13 extra paladins per week, but also lose 6 priests and 7 footmen.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 13, 2007 03:49 PM |
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ye i was just coloring things up a bit just to express my point
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted March 13, 2007 04:50 PM |
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well... the problem is that necro wasn't actually overpowered on two town maps even with 2k skels. On 1 town maps it was trully something.
The Necro army is trully weak, on all levels, without any top creature, and the necro hero sucks on the might side. He gathers huge amounts of spell power, which aren't very helpfull without Destructive or Summoning Magic. He might go for an uber Phoenix with his huge spell power, but in late game that doesn't seem to me like a game winner. And the troops gathered from necromancy aren't enough to make up for the att/def difference. But, even so, you still can't call them underpowered since a well directed Puppet could turn the game. Having immunity on their dead troops to almost all important dark spells is a great thing. On the other side, lacking morale is a very bad thing, probably one of their biggest weaknesses
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 13, 2007 06:25 PM |
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Yeah, that was exactly my point..
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executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
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posted March 14, 2007 06:54 PM |
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Edited by executor at 18:56, 14 Mar 2007.
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This time I can do nothing except totally agreeing wtih TowerLord. Necro bought army isn't good. Only liches are something, but still aren't top in their level. And ghosts are too low tier to matter in late game. IMHO this town needs really strong, but balanced, necromancy skill. And 'new' necromancy is not strong by all means. However, the undead transformer is overpowered. Upgrading(yes, upgrading) priests to liches is something I can't accept... . Unless it has been changed in 1.41, didn't check it by now.
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