|
| Thread: Academy: Unique or Unrelated? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
posted April 23, 2007 03:51 PM |
|
|
Academy: Unique or Unrelated?
As you probably know, every faction in HOMM5, is based on a race.
Usually, most of the creatures of the faction belong to the race (AKA Humanoids).
There are additional creatures, that allied with the basic race, or were trained to fight for the kingdom (AKA Beasts).
Let's take Haven as exapmle:
The race is Humans. Which creatures are humanoid (belong to the race), and which are beasts (additional creatures)?
Peasant-humanoid
Archer-humanoid
Footman-humanoid
Griffin-beast
Priest-humanoid
Cavalier-humanoid
Angel-beast
We have 5 humanoid creatures and 2 beasts, in Haven.
There are different kind of balances between humanoid creatures and beasts, like in Sylvan (the race is Elves):
Pixie-beast
Blade Dancer-humanoid
Hunter-humanoid
Druid-humanoid
Unicorn-beast
Treant-beast
Green Dragon-beast
In Sylvan, we have 3 humanoid and 4 beasts.
In Academy, it's a bit different (the race is Wizards):
Gremlin-beast
Gargoyle-beast
Golem-beast
Mage-humanoid
Djinn-beast
Rakshasa Rani-beast
Colossus-beast
In Academy, there are 6 beasts and only 1 humanoid creature.
Academy has so many additional creatures, that the faction doesn't feel like Wizards' faction at all.
It seems like Academy isn't really faction of HOMM5, where there are organized races in every faction.
Academy seems like one of the factions from the previous versions of HOMM, where were randomal creatures in every faction.
The Academy creatures are the same creatures from HOMM3 Tower (with one change-Rakshasa Rani replaces the Naga).
This faction doesn't fit to HOMM5 at all.
Eventhough they invented a nice story; that all these beasts are creatures that were created/summoned by the wizards.
However, why the race name is 'Wizards' if only 1/7 of the faction is actually belongs to the race?
On the other hand, this kind of faction is quite unique.
It gives another kind of faction to the game. More original one.
However, I can't ignore the fact that it brakes the series of beautiful sets of suitable creatures.
|
|
TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 04:02 PM |
|
|
|
the humanoid/beast thinking is wrong, and that leads to bad conclusion.
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 04:03 PM |
|
|
I don't see anything wrong with Academy.
It is a faction of magically created/animated creatures.
It's called "wizards", because wizards are those who created it and because its much shorter than calling it magically created/animated creatures .
Now if you look at the line-up you'll get:
1. gremlin - beast (technically also created by magic, but it has no magic within him now).
2. gargoyle - "humanoid"
3. golem - "humanoid"
4. mage - humanoid (not created by magic, but filled with it instead).
5. djinn - "humanoid" (summoned by magic)
6. rakshasha - "humanoid" (summoned as well)
7. titan - "humanoid" (constructed and filled by magic).
this way you get 6 "humanoids" and only 1 "beast", statistic that only Fortress can rival.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 04:05 PM |
|
|
I agree that Academy falls a bit beside the other factions, but I think there are some aspects you need to take into account when you compare the cities. There are basically two types of cities:
- Humanoids + associated beasts: Haven, Sylvan, Dungeon, Fortress, (Stronghold).
- Special creature types: Necropolis, Inferno, Academy.
Both Necropolis and Inferno are fairly well established with their line-ups of Undead and Infernal creatures, respectively (I will not go into the discussion of Infernal (Devilish) creatures vs. Demonic (Abyssal) creatures here).
The Academy tends more towards the latter group of towns. Its units are made up of magic "creations" of the Wizards - the reason it seems a bit of a mess is that these creatures take quite a variety of forms: From biological experiments (Gremlins) through Constructs (Golems) and Animates (Gargoyles) to magical experiments with trapped spirits (Djinn, Rakshasa). That the Wizards themselves a bit unconventionally actually hold a place in these ranks as the Mages further muddy the picture - neither the Necromancer nor the Demon Lord have a unit themselves - and the implementation of the Titans also seems a bit half-hearted - are they animates, are the contructs, are they spirits, or are they all of these things messed together? All that being said, however, I think the Academy does form a fairly coherent line-up.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 04:06 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I don't see anything wrong with Academy.
It is a faction of magically created/animated creatures.
It's called "wizards", because wizards are those who created it and because its much shorter than calling it magically created/animated creatures.
Now if you look at the line-up you'll get:
1. gremlin - beast (technically also created by magic, but it has no magic within him now).
2. gargoyle - "humanoid"
3. golem - "humanoid"
4. mage - humanoid (not created by magic, but filled with it instead).
5. djinn - "humanoid" (summoned by magic)
6. rakshasha - "humanoid" (summoned as well)
7. titan - "humanoid" (constructed and filled by magic).
this way you get 6 "humanoids" and only 1 "beast", statistic that only Fortress can rival.
How can you call Gargoyle, Golem, Djinn and Rakshasa humanoid? 
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 04:08 PM |
|
|
That's what the "s are for.
I only wanted to use the terms you used.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 04:12 PM |
|
|
Quote:
That's what the "s are for.
I only wanted to use the terms you used.
The termns that I used were if the creature belongs to the basic race.
Is Golem a Wizard?
Is Gargoyle Rani a Wizard?
Is Djinn Rani a Wizard?
Is Rakshasa Rani a Wizard?
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 04:14 PM |
|
|
They're all magically created creatures, you should read my first post more carefully.
P.S. what alc said
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
radar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 04:22 PM |
|
|
huh? angel is a beast?
____________
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 04:51 PM |
|
|
Yes, the red line is that the Wizards created all these creatures:
Gremlins: Wizards created them by performing "magical experiments" on Goblins.
Gargoyle: Wizards created them by animating stone statues.
Golem: Wizards created them by constructing a robot like being and then animate it.
Mages: Wizards created them by ... Ehm, I better not go in detail with that here. Must fall in the category "biological experiment". 
Djinn: Wizards created them by Summoning the spirits and the binding them.
Rakshasa: Wizards created them by Summoning them and controling them.
Giant: Wizards created them by building a statue and animating them like Golems, and then give them a piece of their soul.
And the Angel is not a "beast" per se, but you can consider it a magical beast, which is really just a general term covering everything neither humanoid nor animal.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Monteniger
Adventuring Hero
Baron of Karthal
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 05:45 PM |
|
|
Quote:
The Academy creatures are the same creatures from HOMM3 Tower (with one change-Rakshasa Rani replaces the Naga).
This faction doesn't fit to HOMM5 at all.
I agree with Geny & TowerLord.
The reason they have so much beasts is because they make them or summon them to battle.
The reason the Mages are lvl 4 is because they were capable of creating and summoning more powerful beings then themselves to aid them in combats.
And mages are not a new race- they are just humans who devoted their lives to studying magic!
|
|
executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 05:47 PM |
|
|
Hmm..... one thing. How come djins are 'bound' to serve wizards if some of djinns (Nur & Galib) are heroes/wizards of great power?
I think it is an error if it is written somewhere in the game, djinns seem more like ALLIES of wizards rather than their servants. Or at least some of them.
____________
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
|
|
Monteniger
Adventuring Hero
Baron of Karthal
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 05:50 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Hmm..... one thing. How come djins are 'bound' to serve wizards if some of djinns (Nur & Galib) are heroes/wizards of great power?
I think it is an error if it is written somewhere in the game, djinns seem more like ALLIES of wizards rather than their servants. Or at least some of them.
Maybe they set them free after some serving 
Or they could indeed be allies of wizards. Anyhow,I don't think that there is anything wrong with this line-up.
____________
The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 06:04 PM |
|
|
I haven't got the time to read the previous replies so sorry if I repeat something. I doubt there is anything wrong because there is a strong unity even if not tied to a race. The wizards are the unifying race that have taken care of the gremlins(a scientific creation) and designed(gargoyles, golems, colossi) or summoned(genies, rakshasas) the rest of the units. They even take a role themselves as tier 4, those who pursue a military career anyway.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 06:13 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Hmm..... one thing. How come djins are 'bound' to serve wizards if some of djinns (Nur & Galib) are heroes/wizards of great power?
I think it is an error if it is written somewhere in the game, djinns seem more like ALLIES of wizards rather than their servants. Or at least some of them.
According to the djinns' description they are bound to serve the masters who summoned them. However, here is a quote from Galib's description:
Galib is a Djinn, a spiritual being, lord among the many elemental spirits that roam the plane of magic, invisible to the untrained eye. Galib is not a servant, but a friend and ally to the Mages of the Silver Cities, and he sits as one of the Circle in the Wizards' ruling council to defend the interests of his
As you can see Galib is more than just another djinn. Nothing special is written about Nur, but I think it's safe to assume she's not a regular djinn as well.
In conclusion, it looks like most of the djinns are mere servants of the wizards, but some of them are either too powerful to be enslaved or too wise to be used like cannon fodder and so they become allies of the wizards and commanders of their armies.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 07:41 PM |
|
|
Quote:
As you probably know, every faction in HOMM5, is based on a race.
Usually, most of the creatures of the faction belong to the race (AKA Humanoids).
There are additional creatures, that allied with the basic race, or were trained to fight for the kingdom (AKA Beasts).
OK, first GL, be sure that you really know what is humanoid, I'll try to explain:
The term "humanoid" refers to any being whose body structure resembles that of a human. In this sense, the term indeed describes primates, as well as mythological creatures and artificial organisms (robots), especially in the context of science fiction and fantasy fiction. An android or gynoid is a humanoid robot designed to look like a specific gender, although the words are, in principle, synonymous.
Usually, a fictional humanoid species has the same basic body outline as a human, being bipedal with hands which include fingers and opposable thumbs, but differs in details such as number of digits, coloring, ear form, presence of hair, average height and weight, size of nose, form of skin, "extras" such as horns, plates, claws, tails or multiple appendages, limb structure (such as having digitigrade legs) and taxonomic lineage (being descended from reptiles, fish, rodents, marsupials, or a phylum not evolved on Earth, perhaps, instead of primates). Reptilian humanoids are a common concept.
Most of the aliens in television and movies are humanoid, since it is easier for a fictional character to be a disguised human actor. However, there are various methods for presenting non-humanoid characters, for example computer graphics, creative costuming, and puppetry, as seen in Farscape. Many aliens and robots often call humans humanoids, although this probably has more to do with translating alien languages, as the word human would appear to be limited to Earth's population only.
So, here is how it is in the towns:
Academy
Gremlin - humanoid
Gargoyle - beast
Golem - humanoid
Archmage - humanoid
Djinn Sultan - beast (yes it's based on human but the creature is not with whose body structure - no head and legs)
Rakshasa Raja - humanoid
Titan - humanoid
Dungeon
Scout - humanoid
Blood Fury - humanoid
Minotaur - humanoid
Grim Raider - humanoid
Hydra - beast
Matriarch - humanoid
Black Dragon - beast
Haven
Peasant - humanoid
Marksman - humanoid
Squire - humanoid
Griffin - beast
Inquisitor - humanoid
Paladin - humanoid
Archangel - humanoid
Inferno
Familiar - beast
Horned Overseer - beast
Cerberus - beast
Succubus - humanoid
Nightmare - beast
Pit Lord - beast
Devil - humanoid
Necropolis
Skeleton - humanoid
Zombie - humanoid
Spectre - humanoid
Vampire - humanoid
Archlich - humanoid
Wraith - humanoid
Spectral Dragon - beast
Sylvan
Sprite - humanoid
War Dancer - humanoid
Hunter - humanoid
Druid - humanoid
Unicorn - beast
Treant - beast
Emerald Dragon - beast
Fotress
Shieldguard - humanoid
Skirmisher - humanoid
Blackbear Rider - humanoid
Berserker - humanoid
Rune Patriarch - humanoid
Warlord - humanoid
Magma Dragon - beast
____________
|
|
Unhackable
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Banned
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 07:48 PM |
|
|
Haven:
Peasant: Human
Archer: Human
Footman: Human
Griffin: Beast
Priest: Human
Cavalier: Human
Angel: Humanoid
Sylan:
Pixie: Humanoid
Blade Dancer: Humanoid
Hunter: Humanoid
Druid: Humanoid
Unicorn: Beast
Treant: Humanoid
Green Dragon: Beast
Academy:
Gremlin: Humanoid
Gargoyle: Golem-like creature
Golem: Robot, creatue that created by High-Tech
Mage: Human
Djinn: Humanoid
Rakshasa: Beast
Colossus: Humanoid / Golem-like creature
|
|
Lesij
Famous Hero
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 08:01 PM |
|
|
Why Golems are called beasts by u?
I would rather name them machines. Look at the Artificial Glory Skill in Wizard's Skill Chart...
Gargoyles...
Humanodis or beasts?
Nor humanoids neither beasts!
Living Statues...
How can u call animated statue, a beast? That's ridiculous!
Titans?
Humanoids ofc!
I have read somewhere they are creatures, made by mages (where have u read about that, they are animated statues?) with souls of great warriors, which were given an opportunity to come back to world of livin'...
That dudz were the most controversial as i have noticed...
Now, my favs, Djinns  ...
Agree...
That they don't have legz, but they have head, it is only hidden in that big hat, so I think they can be called humanoidz...
...The same as Rakshasas...
____________
|
|
executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
|
|
posted April 23, 2007 09:19 PM |
|
|
@Vokial
Quote:
no head and legs
No legs yes. But djinns have head, covered with that immense 'sombrero'. I have no doubts about it.
@Geny
Your explanation is OK to me  .
____________
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
|
|
Plexus22
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 24, 2007 02:49 AM |
|
|
According to Greek mythology the Titans were ancestors of the classic greek gods which sounds more correct to me. I was always under the impression that titans were living humanoids of very LARGE size not animated or magically created beings.
"From her union with the heavens came the Hecatonchires (hundred-handers: Kottos, Briareos, and Gyes), the three cyclops (Brontes, Sterope, and Arges), and the Titans (Kronos [Cronus], Rheia [Rhea], Kreios [Crius], Koios [Coeus], Phoibe [Phoebe], Okeanos [Oceanus], Tethys, Hyperion, Theia [Thea], Iapetos [Iapetus], Mnemosyne, and Themis).
From the Titan pair Kronos and his sister Rheia came the first Olympian gods (Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Hades, Demeter, and Hestia)."
|
| |
|
|
