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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Alternatives comparison
Thread: Alternatives comparison This thread is 24 pages long: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 20 24 · «PREV / NEXT»
dkolb
dkolb


Promising
Known Hero
Nay Nay and Aslan Protector
posted July 09, 2007 04:27 AM

Quote:
Quote:
It is an extremely devastating spell to cast and it will force the enemy hero to either dispel (and thus waste a turn) or pretty much leave the creature there blinded.


One more option, cast Anti-Magic. Also, with 16 mana, Blind can only be casted once. While with 13 mana, Haste, can be casted 3 times.

Quote:
And the zealot comes with 3 extra mana. It's not even a close contest between the two.


The more 3 mana is not better than the more 2 shots.
And it is not quite easy to get Ammo Cart. Furthermore, Ammo Cart is very easy to be destroyed.


anti magic costs even more than cleansing and still wastes the hero's turn. And that's assuming he can even cast it. The two extra shot don't amount to a hill of beans because 1st as you mentioned the ammo cart can be employed and regardless he has no melee penalty

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 09, 2007 07:34 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 07:34, 09 Jul 2007.

Quote:
One more option, cast Anti-Magic. Also, with 16 mana, Blind can only be casted once.


With refined mana, it can be casted three times. The shots are irrevelant: both the inquisitor and the zealot are not damage dealers. They're meant to cast, and zealots do it better.

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Evil_Warrior
Evil_Warrior


Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
posted July 10, 2007 04:27 AM

Quote:
anti magic costs even more than cleansing and still wastes the hero's turn.


But will make Blind useless. Once is enough. While Cleansing need to be casted everytime after Blind casted.

Quote:
With refined mana, it can be casted three times.


With refined mana, Haste can be cast even more times.

Quote:
The shots are irrevelant: both the inquisitor and the zealot are not damage dealers. They're meant to cast, and zealots do it better.


Yes you're right. However, non-damaging spells cannot make you win until it followed by dealing damage. Also, with Cleansing or Anti-Magic, the effect lost.
Blind is better than Haste, surely. But dealing damage is the only way to win. Spellcasting better be done by the hero.


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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted July 10, 2007 07:18 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 10:03, 10 Jul 2007.

Quote:


Yes you're right. However, non-damaging spells cannot make you win until it followed by dealing damage. Also, with Cleansing or Anti-Magic, the effect lost.
Blind is better than Haste, surely. But dealing damage is the only way to win. Spellcasting better be done by the hero.




come again?so you are saying the whole dark magic tree is worthless eventhough it's the most powerfull in the game oO? And clearly you missunderstood something. Inquisitors are supporters they are NOT good for dealing dmg. As they said above this unit is about casting and the zealot will have a MAJOR inpact if he has blind!! casting blind up to 3 time with a single stack of units is waaaaaaaay too powerfull! Zealot >>>>>>> Inquisitor big time

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted July 10, 2007 08:28 AM

Quote:
Spellcasting better be done by the hero.


Blind is even great spell to use whit hero but now that you can have multiple Blind casting by splitting Zealots is insane. Not to mention not all fanctions have light cleansing or anti-magic (Inferno/Warlock). Blind Devils, Pits and Mares and you have allready won the match againts Inferno.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 10, 2007 09:48 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 09:49, 10 Jul 2007.

Well, you can cast puppet master on one unit, and zealotblind another one, and the enemy has to choose, either way you have 1 less to worry about. Very powerful. In the next turn you repeat the trick and since the enemy will most likely dispel puppet master rather than blind, two stacks are blinded away.. woah.  Now imagine inferno that can't cleanse. Losing two stacks per round and facing quintiple paladins that kill aditional two per round?

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markal
markal

Tavern Dweller
posted July 10, 2007 06:41 PM

Quote:
Well, you can cast puppet master on one unit, and zealotblind another one, and the enemy has to choose, either way you have 1 less to worry about. Very powerful. In the next turn you repeat the trick and since the enemy will most likely dispel puppet master rather than blind, two stacks are blinded away.. woah.  Now imagine inferno that can't cleanse. Losing two stacks per round and facing quintiple paladins that kill aditional two per round?



In HoF the renegades were experiments.So ??? There will not be any blind for zealot,if yes than the pitlord should have the armageddon spell.Many things will be changed so do not hope of cheering your victory from rumors.Maybe even the whole renegade alternatives will be changed.Honestly what does a fallen angel[that is a demon] do in the altar of heaven?It is not logical?

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Evil_Warrior
Evil_Warrior


Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
posted July 11, 2007 06:33 AM

Quote:
so you are saying the whole dark magic tree is worthless...


I didn't.

Quote:
eventhough it's the most powerfull in the game oO?


Nah, how can you say that?
Rescurrection is Light Magic.
Implosion and Armageddon are Destructive Magic.
Phantom Forces and Conjure Phoenix are Summoning Magic.

Those are very effective spells that cannot be dispelled.

Quote:
Blind is even great spell to use whit hero but now that you can have multiple Blind casting by splitting Zealots is insane. Not to mention not all fanctions have light cleansing or anti-magic (Inferno/Warlock).


Absolutely right!

Quote:
Blind Devils, Pits and Mares and you have allready won the match againts Inferno.


However, finally you must attack and automatically dispel the Blind.

Quote:
Well, you can cast puppet master on one unit, and zealotblind another one, and the enemy has to choose, either way you have 1 less to worry about. Very powerful. In the next turn you repeat the trick and since the enemy will most likely dispel puppet master rather than blind, two stacks are blinded away.


With once Cleansing, all blinded and hypnotized stack will be cleaned from those negative spells.

Quote:
In HoF the renegades were experiments.So ??? There will not be any blind for zealot,if yes than the pitlord should have the armageddon spell.Many things will be changed so do not hope of cheering your victory from rumors.Maybe even the whole renegade alternatives will be changed.Honestly what does a fallen angel[that is a demon] do in the altar of heaven?It is not logical?


Markal, thanks for the info but we just discuss about what exist now. Who knows renegades will appear in ToE or not? However, discussion about them is inspiring.


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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 15, 2007 09:43 AM

Quote:
With once Cleansing, all blinded and hypnotized stack will be cleaned from those negative spells.


cleansing is a AoE spell, not mass. So, if you blind different units at each side of the battlefield, only one can be cleansed.

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Deathy
Deathy


Known Hero
Angels Galore
posted July 15, 2007 10:46 PM

well we all now know that blindless won't be in the zealot's arsenal but rather righteous might and cleansing.

and also blood angels are now casters with righteous might and divine vengeance.

this should increase the conversation some

personally i think all the spells chosen for those two units were horrible cept for cleansing.

righteous might comes for haven heroes so often and they can get the mass version too. nobody is gonna waste angel's turn to cast righteous might, even if it would be at expert level. angels after all reach 75 base damage with bless, easily top of the line when compared to all 7th tier units. and they expect us to choose between that and casting? i would go for the damage anyday. and divine vengeance... well let's just say that i SERIOUSLY doubt Blood Angels are gonna be able to do more damage with that than with their base attack during a battle. and IMO it's kinda the same for zealot, ill even bet money that zealots are not gonna get expert level righteous might, therefore not worth the casting really. i would rather save the mana points for possible cleansings.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 16, 2007 09:25 AM

I totally agree with deathy.. Lvl7 unit casting righteous might which level4 casters have.. give me a break.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted July 16, 2007 10:20 AM

I want to have the details before I write off these spells as completely insignificant. If the Blood Angel casts only Righteous Might on a single unit - even if it is at expert level - I grant you that is not an amazing boon, especially because the current Zealot does the same (and even if it is reduced to advanced level to match the Inquisitor, it's not that much of a difference) - but if it has the ability to use Mass Righteous Might? I know, we have no reason to believe it would, it would certainly be the first unit with a mass spell, but then, this is the first level 7 caster in the game. If the spell was Mass Righteous Might, I would deffinitely consider it an interesting option - particularly if I had a group of Inquisitors in my army (or a Hero) who would then have the chance for using Divine Strength on the Blood Angel.

As for Divine Vengeance ... it might not seem as much, and it's perhaps not a winner strategy alone, but if you have only few Angels, this might still offer a nice option. Divine Vengeance does 6 x # Killed + 60 damage, and if you bring a stack of several hundred Conscripts or Marksmen into battle, this can still add up to a fair amount of damage.
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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted July 16, 2007 11:06 AM

Divine Vengeance is nice because low tier fodder(conscripts) are often meant to steal a retal. So, for example, 500 conscripts may attack some big, high tier and defense stack (magmas are the best example) and will deal pathetic damage, all of them will be dead because of a retal but the divine vengeance will deal 500*6+600 = 3600 damage to magmas.

So now, conscripts can be actually useful and can be a real threat if ignored. Who would ever expect that ?

But still, haven has major gold problems, so building angels may still be a pointless waste.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 16, 2007 01:20 PM

Quote:
Divine Vengeance is nice because low tier fodder(conscripts) are often meant to steal a retal. So, for example, 500 conscripts may attack some big, high tier and defense stack (magmas are the best example) and will deal pathetic damage, all of them will be dead because of a retal but the divine vengeance will deal 500*6+600 = 3600 damage to magmas.

So now, conscripts can be actually useful and can be a real threat if ignored. Who would ever expect that ?

But still, haven has major gold problems, so building angels may still be a pointless waste.


better go with peasants then, they die quicker, are cheaper and gave taxpayer ;x
I just thought that divine vengeance may be useful for endgame, when you lost the majority of angels in battle and did the peasant trick, the angel stack may suddenly become a killer. perhaps. In a 6th week battle you can have like 250 peasants, and against top enemy stack they will fall fast, so divine vengeance may do 1800 dam. not bad.

I still don't get the righteous might part.

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dodokilla
dodokilla


Hired Hero
Hunting dodos
posted July 16, 2007 01:44 PM

About Righteus might on angels. Often in the beginning of many battles you wan´t to wait. So instead of pressing the wait button you will get the chance to cast an ok level 3 spell.

Not cheezy perhaps but better than nothing?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 16, 2007 01:54 PM

Well, it's better to wait if your hero has mass righteous might spell.

Mass righteous might for bloodangels would be interesting, but ultimately too much, since haven army would be a self-buffing (inquisitors, angels), self-cleansing (zealots, paladins) joke, giving the knightish hero even more possibilities to abuse dark magic

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted July 16, 2007 03:02 PM

RM on angels is VERY good. The key is to use(on marksmen and paladins) as many buffs as possible in the shortest period of time.

Battle starts, a hero casts mass haste, Zealots cast RM on marksman, angels cast RM on paladins, hero casts mass divine strength.

RM on angles/zealots means faster recasting because opponent can mass cleanse all paladins/marksman buffs.

Often after mass haste it's good to use divine guidance on paladins especially if they moraled.

If enemy has all troops hasted and RMed then it's often good to use mass cleansing on his powerstack(s).

So, mass RM is not that useful after all..
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 16, 2007 04:58 PM

if the enemy hero is casting cleansing on your units, he's merely canceling your buffs and not doing anything else. That means you'll trash him easily, since haven is the melee supremacy in this game..

There are ofc exceptions: earlygame, but you can't have Bloodangels in earlygame anyway..

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Deathy
Deathy


Known Hero
Angels Galore
posted July 16, 2007 05:42 PM

yeah, i mean enemy hero just used his turn to cleanse your buffs, now you can charge ahead and damage the enemy with your angels,paladins,marksmen and possible griffins. and your hero still has his turn to go for possible rebuffings or maybe even dark magic. you just reduced enemies army massively instead of wasting the turn of the angels for casting righteous might. ill bet you that the stack of angels that attacked did much more damage than what whatever unit the angel buffed could have done as extra damage with their normal one because of the buffing. so i still see the choice of righteous might as pretty useless.


has anyone btw considered that does the amount of angels affect the damage of divine vengeance in anyway? if it does not, then the spell does indeed sound promising in end game, when your 300ish peasants die to one high level enemy stack.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted July 16, 2007 06:00 PM

The number of Angels will not affect the amount of damage received from Divine Vengeance if the description holds true. I don't quite understand the spell, however, I can't figure out whether it will have a duration or just act instentaneously like a Destructive spell. In the latter case, the number of Angels will be completely irrellevant.
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