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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Beating Frenzy and Puppet Master as Warlock
Thread: Beating Frenzy and Puppet Master as Warlock This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
charles555va
charles555va

Tavern Dweller
posted October 29, 2007 04:58 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 16:02, 29 Oct 2007.

Beating Frenzy and Puppet Master as Warlock

I was completely winning a map as warlock, i had ring of celerity, and a ring of speed, over 100 blood furies and 90 assassins along with other troops. First turn i kill half his troops and dominate. Then he cast frenzy and my blood furies start slaughtering my own troops, killing 16 witches in one hit at one point. What do i do to stop the bs?
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Slim-Sleeper
Slim-Sleeper


Hired Hero
Lazy
posted October 29, 2007 05:16 AM
Edited by Slim-Sleeper at 05:17, 29 Oct 2007.

Now that is a though one..

Since you want the furies to use their ability to run back after the attack, then that makes them very ideal to cast frenzy or PM on.

Perhaps you just have to sacrifice the furies and attack holding the ctrl button (this makes them just attack, but not run back). That way the enemy cant cast on the furies since they are closer to the enemy then they are to your own troops.

As for PM, nothing can be done with it, and its awesome to use on the furies since they have very high initiative!

So what you can try is to keep your ranged stacks in the opposite corner of eachother, the furies in the middle. Attack with the furies holding ctrl.

That way the enemy would prolly not cast either frenzy or PM on the furies, since the frenzy will only make him loose alot, and the PM do little good since your furies cant reach the ranged troops that you own (since they stand in opposite corners of eachoter.

Now for the grand finale, how to protect your 2 ranged stacks against frenzy or PM. Simple, just put 1 minotaur (or 5, or 10, dont matter much) next to each ranged stack! And DONT move them! If the enemy then uses frenzy, then you will loose that stack of minos, the same goes with PM. BUT! This buys you a turn since none of your vital stacks was hit!

Now the only thing you need to do is to pray for the furies to survive!! If you didn't understand what I mean then I'll try to draw it for you.

W = witches, A = assasins, M = minos, F = furies.

|W                                        A|
| M                  F                   M |

If you also have a stack of dark riders, then rush to the front and keep the furies and the riders apart from eachother!!

He might use PM, but he wont use frenzy.

Hope this helps..

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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted October 29, 2007 05:18 AM
Edited by Mytical at 05:21, 29 Oct 2007.

Might help if we knew Skills (and if basic, ect) you had.  Puppet master and frenzy is rather hard to combat unless you have cleanse .  Since Dungeon doesn't get cleanse that often..have to rely on other things.  If you can cast blindness would help (blind own frenzied person so they don't decimate you).  Also if they are just frenzied, just make sure your troops are further away from them then your enemies troops.   If you have teleport assult, teleport them real close to an enemy stack .  For Puppet master, that is a lot harder to counter .  Since they have lower initiative, may have to just ignore them and keep nukeing.
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Message received.

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roy-algriffin
roy-algriffin


Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
posted October 29, 2007 05:34 AM

An option is to learn dark magic yourself and use master of mind- shrug darkness and seal of darkness (both are from master of mind) or use the vampirisim spell on your furies if you have it. Makes them undead and therefore immune
Remember yrbeth starts with dark magic.

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PaleMaster
PaleMaster


Hired Hero
posted October 29, 2007 07:14 AM

Better option is to have good hero
if u can kill half of enemy troops with ur army, then it wont be a problem to cast empowered meteor shower to kill the other half
offence is the best defense

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unixmage
unixmage


Known Hero
Demon Slayer
posted October 29, 2007 09:17 AM

I agree. If you can teleport assault that's the best solution. If not then atleast expect it and position your troops so the most dangerous are closer to the enemy.  

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 29, 2007 09:35 AM

you can't beat it, and you can't win with units vs. dark magic as a warlock.

Relying on destructive or a good rush is the only way to stop a darkmagic-orientated enemy. Creatures are just an add-on.

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Duncan
Duncan


Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
posted October 29, 2007 09:40 AM

Spell-wise: Try Counterspell.
Tactical-wise: Slim-Sleeper has said it all.

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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.

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Moonlith
Moonlith


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted October 29, 2007 11:16 AM

Pray your destructive magic will finish the enemy units before your own units will finish YOURS

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted October 29, 2007 12:32 PM

And avoid having raiders with you Or have them surrounded just in case.
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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kermit
kermit


Known Hero
Soul hunter
posted October 29, 2007 02:15 PM
Edited by kermit at 14:21, 29 Oct 2007.

As stated above, hold control button so that your furies don't go back on first turn. If frenzied they'll continue to massacre your oponents troops. Unfortunately it means the furies will get hit. Other option put a couple week units near your furies to buy you some time like below. The fury will atack the nearest stack, even it's a stack of 1 assassin.

F: Fury
X: A stack of one unit (assassin/minotaur)

XF
X

Against PM there is little you can do... best option would be to build black dragons. Otherwise rely on spell power and try to do enough damage before the furies kill your army...

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Slim-Sleeper
Slim-Sleeper


Hired Hero
Lazy
posted October 29, 2007 05:20 PM

Yes, a very good alternative tactic there.. Should have thought about it.

If it is versus AI then no prob, they will frenzy the furies, and if you have 1 assasin (or mino, or whatever) next to it its nice.

BUT. If you choose to send them away by attacking holding ctrl, then remember that the furies have VERY high initiative, that way they can fight back alot. And since it is the final battle it dont matter much if you loose your furies.. although I really hate to sacrifice the troops I like the most.. Perhaps thats why I suck at heroes.. Like when I play with heaven I dont want to use any of my units exept ranged.. Cause I feel so sorry for the poor guys.. Yeah.. I know, I'm 20 years old and male, I'm touchy

So just be brutal! Fighting this battle will prolly improve your gaming quite alot! To use different tactics, to think ahead, to be brutal, to be evil, to send your beloved furies to the sertain death...! And then WIN! agains the toughest opponent! Yes, I beleve that a good dark magic hero (really no matter the race) is the worst enemy a warlock can have due to their high init, and practicly no counterattack..

And yeah.. If you have the room for it you can maybe split the furies in to more then 1 stack.. I find that quite lethal, but then again, I'm NOT a dungedon guy.. faaar from it..

Hope any of this helps : )

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted October 29, 2007 05:29 PM

I do have a bit of the dungeon morality If a unit can serve me better off dead I'll sacrifice it though I usually think how to best preserve them. The bottomline is that big fights are to be won and there is a price to pay.
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted October 29, 2007 05:30 PM

Why would anyone pm or frenzy the furies? they die in 1 blow...

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Slim-Sleeper
Slim-Sleeper


Hired Hero
Lazy
posted October 29, 2007 05:42 PM

Samikel, they have no retaliation abiliti : ) And you cant attack it when its PM'ed or frenzied.. Its practicly imune to everything exept retaliating troops (that are none in the furies case) and spells. So yeah, you could prolly smack the fury stack with a nifty empowerd spell, but whats the use in that! Its better to let them serve and die like Elvin proposes : )

And yeah, another tactic that works great with warlock is the empowered armageddon suecide : )

I have no idea if it works anymore, but if it does then go for it! 7 stacks with 1 minotaur, and hope to be able to cast empowered MS before you cast the armageddon : )

And viola! Your hero is back driking grapesoda in the tavern...

There are alot of things you can do to beat your opponent, but practicly NOTHING you can do to avoid him using frenzy or PM.. Sorry : (

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted October 29, 2007 05:47 PM

And again... why would anyone pm or frenzy the furies?

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Slim-Sleeper
Slim-Sleeper


Hired Hero
Lazy
posted October 29, 2007 07:04 PM

Well... Because they are pretty much the best unit that dungeon has!

IF you play dungeon right you will prolly loose VERY few or NONE of the furies during creeping, you might loose some against heroes since they would focus on the furies. But pretty much you'd have a strong stack.

The thing that makes the furies UBER is their initiative. They can act SO many times!! So even if a low skilled dark magic user cast PM on them, then they would still be able to preform many turns, and thereby decimate your other troops with PM!!

Now. To the frenzy thing. The frenzy act so that the targeted stack will attack the NEAREST stack (no matter what it is, either friendly, foe, warmachine..) with almost DOUBLE DAMAGE! And with the strike and return that means that the best stack you have will attack your own stacks with nearly double damage!

Dont look on the defence and HP when you look on the furies (or on any dungeon creature for that matter exept the hydra and black dragon), they ARE fragile, thats why they are made to do the first strike! Just look at their attack, speed and initiative!!

The furies (if played right) are THE BEST unit the dungeon can offer! They can attack 2-3 times without even being close to suffer ANY damage exept from ranged or spells!

Now, how would you deal with a stack that can hurt you ALOT without being hurt at all!? Well, take controll over it!

You say "Why PM or frenzy the furies", well I say why on earth would you NOT PM or frenzy the furies? If you can frenzy a furystack when it is close to a friendly then you do ENORMOUS damage without "suffering" any losses to the stack you have frenzied or PM'ed! Since the warlock pretty much dont have clense then the fury stack belongs to the enemy!

IF the enemy can use YOUR stack of furies then you are dead! Like the starter of this thread explains!

If you can play warlock without the furies, then go for ToH or anything like it, cause then you are a REALLY good warlock player!

I'm not a pro on dungeon, but I've understood (and experienced) that the furies are more worth then a million dollars in the bank!

Again I ask you, why NOT frenzy/PM the furies? They are nearly INVICIBLE when PM'ed!

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 29, 2007 07:14 PM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 19:23, 29 Oct 2007.

I have pretty good record when it comes to dungeon vs necro matchup.
I think ive won like 90% of those games. All you need to do is to hit&run him to death with destructive magic. Undead units are so slow that they are no threat at all. One thing that you may worry about are shackless but if theres no shackless thats a piece of cake, usually. When you hit and run you dont want too many troops with you so he cant puppet master you to death and you want to surredned cheaply. So you take a stack or two and cast couple of spells and surrender. Sometimes you need to repeat the scenario couple times but eventually he will fall.

Fries usually arent very good pm targets because they do litle damage(excluding yrwannas furies) Best targets are grim riders and dragons obviously.

Basically worst you cant do is to take grim riders and hydras for final fight. PMd riders alone are enough to kill all your other troops and then they will be finished off by his units that wont even receive any retaliation.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted October 29, 2007 07:29 PM

How about the artifacts? Don't you loose them in hit & runs?

I see that Swift Mind would be optimal for Necro to try to counter that. And Curse of the Netherworld may surprise you

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Nirual
Nirual


Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
posted October 29, 2007 07:36 PM

only if you actually get defeated, not if you flee.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.

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