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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted May 10, 2008 07:45 PM |
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Yes, but you cant load the last turn since you will get same offer again.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 10, 2008 08:22 PM |
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Edited by maretti at 20:25, 10 May 2008.
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Depends what temp you play. If I play a temp like balance where I dont expect to be expert in 8 skills I often picks up scolars after I have gotten some essential skills. On balance 1 plus to att or def matters more than on richer temps. Also if you have 2 options for main you can pick up a scolar with one of them without the risk of ruining to much.
Remember the chance to get a skill is about 33% but the chance to get a bad skill is somewhat lower.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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1of_the_heroes
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 10, 2008 08:59 PM |
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These are mine (for Fortress - no particular order):
Logistics
Tactics
Armorer
Offense
Pathfinding
Wisdom
Water Magic
Air Magic
I replace Pathfinding with Diplomacy, if allowed.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted May 10, 2008 09:48 PM |
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I do not agree with you Maretti. If you play on Balance, where you dont develope all 8 skills, the relevant importance of the skills is even bigger!
If you have 8 skills, probably 7 good skills are enough. But if you have only 6 skills, you already miss one important skill and it matters a lot.
So - 1 attack/deffence compared to offence/armorer/air/earth/tactics/logistic/archery
Wich one will you sacrifice on Balance for 1 attack? Dont say archery please 
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 10, 2008 10:15 PM |
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Naturally I prefer not getting the bad skill. Its all a matter of probablity. And if you should be unlucky in many cases you get a medium skill like leadership, luck or scouting which are in the same category as archery. Futhermore, many of the crappy skills will stay at basic in most cases cause you have a very low (or no) chance of developing them unless its the only skill you have that is not at expert.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted May 10, 2008 10:21 PM |
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well, if i am desparate, if i am loosing the game probably i will gamble and will try my luck.
But in avarage game for me its not worth the risk.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 10, 2008 10:45 PM |
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Quote:
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This is the ultimate barbarian hero?....hmmm....maybe I played a different game the last....10 years...
Than what would be your ultimate barbarian hero, let me ask?
See on page 12....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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hobowu
Known Hero
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posted May 11, 2008 02:31 AM |
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Yes. One bad skill ruins your hero.
I just got offered a toss up between eagle eye and ballistics on Isra. Obviously I had to choose ballistics... but I don't NEED ballistics as a necro hero when I have animate dead =.= Tres annoyed.
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stachnie
Known Hero
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posted May 12, 2008 12:28 PM |
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Always avoid navigation? No, no, no. Navigation is crucial in some maps. Put it under situational.
Well... perhaps you are right but I HATE water maps so I simply avoid playing them 
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You forgot Learning in "Always Avoid" as well.
You are right. And I forgot Diplomacy which is actually good - maybe not necessarily for the best hero but at least for one of the primary heroes.
S.
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Gurnisson
Known Hero
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posted May 12, 2008 01:39 PM |
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Quote:
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Always avoid navigation? No, no, no. Navigation is crucial in some maps. Put it under situational.
Well... perhaps you are right but I HATE water maps so I simply avoid playing them
I do the same, I hate water maps I just said it because if you play maps mith much water, it ain't useless.
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ong_y_j
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 18, 2008 06:42 AM |
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A noob's attempt to analyse some of the 2ndary skills
Sorry for trying 2 analyse some of the 2ndary skills as a noob. The main thing is to seek criticims and corrections from you pros out there.
Here are my thoughts on some of the skills and their pros and cons (in my noobish view).
1. Magic Resistance
Isn't it an over-rated skill? I mean, I understand it's useful if you're considering a mass-damage spell combo, but still, magic resistance is a rather "luck dependent skill" on chances [It's unrealistic to get magic resistance to immunity with Thorgrim] My main criticism against this skill is that the enemy hero can just cast beneficial spells on his/her own troops, and magic resistance will serve no purpose at all.
2. Wisdom
This is absolutely necessary for magic heroes. But, considering that most of the pros do not pick up all four schools of magic, the usefulness of this skill is greatly reduced, in my opinion. This is especially so IF players only want the mass level 1-2 spells. But then, air and earth magic schools offer excellent spells all the way from level 1 to 5... Yet wisdom allows you to learn the spell, but doesn't guarantee the availability of the spells. I think this skill's efficiency is maximised for tower heroes (5 levels of magic guild + library)
3. Tactics
Guarantees you an advantage in most important battle situations. The worst case scenario is that you cancel out with your opponent hero who also shares this skill.
4. Estates
Guarantees gold advantage. But which is better? Estates, or simply choose a hero with +350 gold speciality, or both? I think it may even be more useful in extreme difficulty levels, where players start with 0 resources.
5. Logistics
Who doesn't want good movement points for heroes? Absolutely a must have, if obtainable, IMHO.
6. Offence / Armour
Always useful in combat, except in cases of direct magic damage. But offence doesn't involve shooting, whereas armour does.
7. Air / Water / Fire / Earth
I learnt from the pros here that Air and Earth are the most useful. I agree. I think Water ranks 3rd and Fire last. [One still needs to combo armageddon, and normal blind is comparable to expert blind; sacrifice is the only "sacrificed" spell if fire school is not chosen]
8. Pathfinding / Navigation
It's usefulness is totally map dependent.
9. Scholar
Just 1 hero will suffice, definitely NOT the skill for the main hero.
10. Diplomacy
A potential to get free troops 2 join for nothing. Slightly dependent on map though (Especially in extremes, and Necro's can't have this skill, I think?)
11. Leadership / Luck
Leadership is always more important than luck -- One can benefit / suffer from good / bad morale, but there's only the difference of good luck and "neutral luck", with equal likelihood to occur. Exceptions involve cursed ground, undead, as well as spirit of oppression.
12. Learning
I'm obsessed with this skill, probably that's what distinguishes me as a noob! Hypothetically, a hero with learning always has level and/or experience advantage against others. But upon learning up all the useful 2ndary skills, learning and experiences are hardly still useful, especially since artifaces improve your primary skills way faster, and it takes 2 much time 2 level in the later stages of the game (unless you hit the tree of knowledge)
I'll take a pause from here, and learn from the corrections of fellow forum users before making more noobish remarks!
Thanks in advance ^Ô^
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hobowu
Known Hero
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posted May 18, 2008 06:51 AM |
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Edited by hobowu at 06:52, 18 May 2008.
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Quote:
1. Magic Resistance
Isn't it an over-rated skill? I mean, I understand it's useful if you're considering a mass-damage spell combo, but still, magic resistance is a rather "luck dependent skill" on chances [It's unrealistic to get magic resistance to immunity with Thorgrim] My main criticism against this skill is that the enemy hero can just cast beneficial spells on his/her own troops, and magic resistance will serve no purpose at all.
Magic resistance is useful when they attempt a mass slow on your troops and 6 stacks out of 7 are unaffected =)
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2. Wisdom
This is absolutely necessary for magic heroes. But, considering that most of the pros do not pick up all four schools of magic, the usefulness of this skill is greatly reduced, in my opinion. This is especially so IF players only want the mass level 1-2 spells. But then, air and earth magic schools offer excellent spells all the way from level 1 to 5... Yet wisdom allows you to learn the spell, but doesn't guarantee the availability of the spells. I think this skill's efficiency is maximised for tower heroes (5 levels of magic guild + library)
Wisdom is needed if you want town portal. In fact, it is worth getting wisdom and earth magic just for TP
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6. Offence / Armour
Always useful in combat, except in cases of direct magic damage. But offence doesn't involve shooting, whereas armour does.
Doesn't matter if offence involves shooting or not... 30% is lots. Offence and Armourer are 2 of the skills every main should have.
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7. Air / Water / Fire / Earth
I learnt from the pros here that Air and Earth are the most useful. I agree. I think Water ranks 3rd and Fire last. [One still needs to combo armageddon, and normal blind is comparable to expert blind; sacrifice is the only "sacrificed" spell if fire school is not chosen]
You forgot about expert berserk for fire. But otherwise yes, fire is negligible as a skill. As is water half the time (although teleporting troops inside walls is a good thing to be able to do).
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10. Diplomacy
A potential to get free troops 2 join for nothing. Slightly dependent on map though (Especially in extremes, and Necro's can't have this skill, I think?)
This is THE skill that is almost always banned! How else do you pick up a throng of thunderbirds for free?
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12. Learning
I'm obsessed with this skill, probably that's what distinguishes me as a noob! Hypothetically, a hero with learning always has level and/or experience advantage against others. But upon learning up all the useful 2ndary skills, learning and experiences are hardly still useful, especially since artifaces improve your primary skills way faster, and it takes 2 much time 2 level in the later stages of the game (unless you hit the tree of knowledge)
There's a thread on this somewhere, i think somewhere into the 20s, learning makes less than 1 lvl difference. Not a skill that's needed... I would choose even luck or leadership over this.
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Gurnisson
Known Hero
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posted May 18, 2008 01:39 PM |
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Quote:
10. Diplomacy
A potential to get free troops 2 join for nothing. Slightly dependent on map though (Especially in extremes, and Necro's can't have this skill, I think?)
Both Death Knights and Necromancer can get Diplo just by levelling up...
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Guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted May 18, 2008 02:16 PM |
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Quote:
and Necro's can't have this skill, I think?)
I have both a Necromancer and a Death Knight with Diplomacy. While I agree that Diplomacy can make the game unbalanced, I'm all for using it against the AI with impunity.
-Guitarguy
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted May 18, 2008 02:32 PM |
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1. Wisdom
2. Earth
3. Int (magic can be expensive under a VERY LONG siege or battle, once you run your snowED completely)
4. Offense
5. Defense
6. Logistic
7 and 8. Misc slot:
*Diplomatic
*Pathfinding
*Air Magic
*Catapult skill(need if alot of castlels)
*Luck
*Leadership
*Scholar(under extreme maps only)
*Archery(if like tower, only if you got mass shooters)
Eagle Eye don't grant adventure spells, soo its useless.... Mysticme should have been Per battle, not Per day. Ballista, is soo easy to kill.... First Aid don't revive, soo it will only help high HP creatures. And alot of other factors......
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Xerius
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 18, 2008 05:27 PM |
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im new to this forums, so hello to everyone
I played heroes for a long time so check my list.
I read few pages but I didnt see anyone matching my preferable skills, so tell me what you think.
I play mostly mage so this is what Im aiming for, but bad luck can force you yo take some crap.
in order:
1.wisdom - doh, I play mage mostly so its must for me.
2.Sorcery - well Im a mage
3.Air magic - love it, mass haste,chain lighting,magic mirror..
4.Earth magic - mass slow, resurrection,implosion.
5.Logistics - especially on big maps its a must have.
6.Tactics - i think this is very important skill.
7.Offense - 30% more damage
8.intellect/armorer/ressistance - playing vs players armore or res vs ai Ill take intellect.
I noticed some people take ballistics, I think its kinda useless even for might hero with 40 attack.
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Ruho
Hired Hero
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posted May 18, 2008 06:56 PM |
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Quote:
Xerius wrote:
im new to this forums, so hello to everyone
Hello and welcome to HC.
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I played heroes for a long time so check my list.
I read few pages but I didnt see anyone matching my preferable skills, so tell me what you think.
Ok.
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I play mostly mage so this is what Im aiming for, but bad luck can force you yo take some crap.
Playing mostly with magic hero is prolly the reason you didn't find matching sec. skill choices since in generally might heroes are much better. Btw, this "bad luck" happens more often with magic heroes due to their worse probabilities of getting good skills. See for example[url=http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=16647]this[/url] thread.
I must admit that your sec. skill choices seem pretty good considering the fact that you prefer magic heroes which generally seems to mean poor sec. skill choices. Some comments though:
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1.wisdom - doh, I play mage mostly so its must for me.
Yeah, a sad fact is that most mages start with it. It can be a great skill if you can learn some useful high level spells with it, but it's very often a wasted skill (don't have time to get high level guild or you find needed spells from tomes or Spellbinder's).
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2.Sorcery - well Im a mage
Sorcery is a poor skill, even for mage. 15% (or more with specialist) is a joke compared to bonuses of Offence or Armorer for example.
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3.Air magic - love it, mass haste,chain lighting,magic mirror..
I hope you meant Dimension Door.
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I noticed some people take ballistics, I think its kinda useless even for might hero with 40 attack.
I guess you meant Artillery as Ballistic (the catapult-effecting skill) is independent of attack skill.
Artillery isn't one of the must skills (Earth Magic, Logistics, Offence, Tactics, Armorer, Air Magic), but can be a very useful skill every now and then. Ever played with Gurnisson? Try it and be surprised how effectively he can clean the map.
All in all your preferred skills seem pretty good, but as you do favor magic heroes I suggest you to try playing with might heroes too (if you think they are worse than magic ones) and see how great they are: better primary skills chances, better secondary skill chances => they can clean the map faster and aren't so much spell point-dependent and do better in end fight too (unless it's very early).
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Xerius
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 18, 2008 09:28 PM |
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All in all your preferred skills seem pretty good, but as you do favor magic heroes I suggest you to try playing with might heroes too (if you think they are worse than magic ones) and see how great they are: better primary skills chances, better secondary skill chances => they can clean the map faster and aren't so much spell point-dependent and do better in end fight too (unless it's very early).
never thought about it but you maybe right about sorcery, wisdom is still must, who knows you might not find those artigacts and gonna be left out with high lvl mage and no spells.
I played with might a lot, i know they are better but just like playing with mage heroes, and whats so bad about surprising your opponent?
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Gurnisson
Known Hero
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posted May 18, 2008 09:37 PM |
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never thought about it but you maybe right about sorcery
He is right. Sorcery is a lame skill if you're not an Armageddon-hero.
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I played with might a lot, i know they are better but just like playing with mage heroes, and whats so bad about surprising your opponent?
The one thing that surprises your opponent is that he takes you down way to easy. If you are a magic hero you will most likely lose to a might hero regardless of you having a stronger army.
A might hero will almost allways win over a mage. Exception is in small maps.
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hobowu
Known Hero
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posted May 19, 2008 09:33 AM |
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@ruho
magic heroes clear map better than might heroes.
that is nearly definite.
they only lose to might heroes because of crappy skills offered, or if the game is long.
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This thread is pages long: 
