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| Thread: How do you counter sylvan faction? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 04, 2008 04:29 PM |
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I think they are a fine way of balancing the game for less experienced players.
For the better ones, the game looks so totally different they would have to make "pro" and "noob" version of balance patches to make everybody happy 
I'm not good enough to think about pro changes and I don't play sylvan, so I don't even know what is important for them and what is not.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted February 04, 2008 04:42 PM |
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 The fact is Sylvan relies on attack-tactics and high defense from enlightenment. Having 2 skills with 2% chances to pop up its enough. No enlightenment means that they will suffer a lot from retaliations. No tactics - no 1 turn kills. The chances for them to get both of them will be extremely low. In addition, i would make familiar ground harder to get, but still accessible. Warmachines will boost their early game, but i think too few (experienced) players will actually get it. So this skill is for noobs. Thats enough i think. If you drop the speed of sprites and dancers you will make them underpowered.
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Drunk_Lord
Known Hero
very happy hero :)
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posted February 04, 2008 04:45 PM |
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It was imba with cloning those 200 elements 
how come you manage to get 65 SP??
because you need that much to summon 200 elements.
i guess you all more than a bit theorycrafer.
Fire warriors gives you +40% more elementals, so you don't need extra high spellpower.
so take a look at this
65 SP exp summoning magic elementals = 2*sp(65(+4 from master of ...)(+4 elemental waistband)) = 146 + 40% (from fire warriors)= 205
you do need extra sp for 200fire warriors.
EDIT: added elemental waistband, but still not enough to be true 
sorry I forgot to mention that I summoned arround 100-120 elements with arties I summoned twice to get around 220-240 elements and then cloned. Sorry for the mistake
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted February 04, 2008 05:01 PM |
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sorry I forgot to mention that I summoned arround 100-120 elements with arties I summoned twice to get around 220-240 elements and then cloned. Sorry for the mistake
what arties did you use??
i don't know about any artifact that doubles summon elemental spell.
so anyway you should get around 60 sp, and haven't seen such a sp yet 
EDIT they didn't stack, if you summon second time first stack will disappear, so stop theory crafting man
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Drunk_Lord
Known Hero
very happy hero :)
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posted February 04, 2008 05:44 PM |
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Quote:
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sorry I forgot to mention that I summoned arround 100-120 elements with arties I summoned twice to get around 220-240 elements and then cloned. Sorry for the mistake
what arties did you use??
i don't know about any artifact that doubles summon elemental spell.
so anyway you should get around 60 sp, and haven't seen such a sp yet
EDIT they didn't stack, if you summon second time first stack will disappear, so stop theory crafting man
Well, actually they stack In every game I played in original HOMMV, Hamers of Fate or Tote they stack. Don't know, maybe its a bug or something like that. Well, if I'm wrong for this(glad for any feedback ) I'm happy u sad it.
Anyway I had:elemental waistband, robe of sar-isus(not sure is i wrote it right), dragon teeth necklace and book of power.
That makes 15 + 6 + 4 + 3 + 3 + 4(master of conjuration) = 35 SPP and when u add Fire Warriors here it comes...
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 04, 2008 07:56 PM |
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The fact is Sylvan relies on attack-tactics and high defense from enlightenment. Having 2 skills with 2% chances to pop up its enough. No enlightenment means that they will suffer a lot from retaliations. No tactics - no 1 turn kills. The chances for them to get both of them will be extremely low. In addition, i would make familiar ground harder to get, but still accessible. Warmachines will boost their early game, but i think too few (experienced) players will actually get it. So this skill is for noobs. Thats enough i think. If you drop the speed of sprites and dancers you will make them underpowered.
That was my idea of reducing the infamous first strike. Familiar ground would still remain, as an interesting element of tactics - like: don't engage sylvan on grass
I know how powerful enlightenment is, and I kinda believe it's too much for Sylvan.
As for wind dancers, the -1 speed was intended to make them not so totally superior to war dancers. War dancers are useless right now.
The warmachine boost was intended for noobs indeed, although I would like it myself, because Sylvan earlygame is rather annoying on a couple of my favorite maps.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted February 04, 2008 07:58 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 19:59, 04 Feb 2008.
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"How do you counter sylvan faction?"
Easily,I go for the best strategy before they can get strong and kill them.Mostly master of speed and teleport helps but if not than I go to map editor give my hero 100 units primary skills and make all my enemies sylvan and than kill them all.
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"Science is not fun without cyanide"
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted February 04, 2008 08:00 PM |
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As for wind dancers, the -1 speed was intended to make them not so totally superior to war dancers. War dancers are useless right now.
Huh? i rarely see the alternate upgrade. The old upgrade is much more useful in final fight.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 04, 2008 08:07 PM |
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the people I play with like them pretty much.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted February 04, 2008 08:16 PM |
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What maps do you usually play? name'em.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 04, 2008 08:53 PM |
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Well, my favorite of all time was/is/will be Peninsula - a crappy, poorly designed map, but it has a highly sentimental value to me It's kinda hard for sylvan to be as fast on that map as I like to be.. with arcane archers guarding the pass, and archmages/druid elders guarding the crystal/gem mines. I never play sylvan there.
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ElectricBunny
Known Hero
Pimp My Box
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posted February 04, 2008 09:06 PM |
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I think I posted this battle somewhere, in What Was Your Most Impossible Or Miraculous Win, I think, but I had 1 weeks worth of Inferno creatures fighting in a Citadel (Or was it a castle? Whatever) against a level 16 Talanar with 3 weeks worth of Sylvan or something like that. Anyway he didn't even have to use magic (he didnt have any mana anyway), he just shot for 140-160 damage each turn. Quite devastating to a small army. My towers weren't much use either.
Anyway his drags flew in and killed off half the high level creatures, but I got them. In the end I was left with like 3 pit lords, 25 overseers against 5 ancient treants and 26 blade dancers. Talaner killed off my pits easily, while my lvl 1 Klaus with Retaliation Strike ability slowly battered down the treants.
n the end it was about 6 blades against 4 overseers. I cast Retal Strike on the blades, the blades attacked my overseers and killed 4, my overseers retaliated killing 4 or something like that. It was 2 VS 2 then, with Talaner about to kill off the rest of the overseers...
And then - miraculously - the retal strike activated and killed the blade dancers.
Not sure if this helps in any way, but I think its a cool story
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InfernoX880
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 04, 2008 10:36 PM |
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If you are playing against the AI, during a siege, it is remarkable how helpful it is to destroy the catapult, especially if you are cloesly matched. Against Heroic AI, if you manage to quickly bring down Catapult via powerful spells or archers of Triple Flaming Ballista, your towers can pelt enemy units who can't enter your walls. And you should be able to repel the flyers easily enough. Add to that the fact that your hero and ranged units can still attack the units outside.
Using this, I often beat armies of 30 Treants or so when I had only about 15 Tier 6 units and all other units with respective growths.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted February 04, 2008 11:08 PM |
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The AI is retarded. We know.
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ElectricBunny
Known Hero
Pimp My Box
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posted February 04, 2008 11:37 PM |
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Well InfernoX I agree very much, but in my situation I had like no shooters and no spells (Klaus lvl 1 - knight hero = no spells)
The catapult tactics also goes for H3 as well, especially if youre playin tower. You have 3 shooters and likely some powerful spells to bring down the catapult. Once it's down, kill off the shooters and you're set for a win against an army 5 times bigger than you. Im not exaggerating - it happened to me.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted February 04, 2008 11:49 PM |
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All that the enemy has to do is destroy your ammo cart.
And then you and your oponent can get bored to death while your towers take down his legion of hydras.
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InfernoX880
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 04, 2008 11:56 PM |
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If only the AI were that smart...
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted February 04, 2008 11:58 PM |
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The AI is retarded. We know.
see my response above.
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InfernoX880
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 05, 2008 12:07 AM |
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It's not just the AI. If you have no way of getting to my side of the Fortress, and I survive with enough units to kill you before your hero destroys my units with powerful spells or attacks, you're screwed. What better thing do you have to do than retreat? And in some cases, it's not that difficult to take down the Catapult.
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted February 05, 2008 12:19 AM |
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Edited by okrane at 00:20, 05 Feb 2008.
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Picture this.
Month 6 battle.
My army:
100 Magma Dragons, 200Thanes, 300 Rune Patriarchs etc.
You half this army 
You destroy the catapult and my ammo cart. I destroy your ammo cart. Our shooters run out of shots pretty fast.
Next, do you want to tell me you'll have the patience of waiting fot your towers to take down my remaining army? Or will you come out and fight?
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