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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: Random (Template) Map Generator available soon!
Thread: Random (Template) Map Generator available soon! This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
SimonaK
SimonaK


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 09, 2008 04:10 AM

Random (Template) Map Generator available soon!

Hello!

I thus invite you to take note of this project on following topic:

http://www.archangelcastle.com/acforum/viewtopic.php?t=5451

Good for you!



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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted April 09, 2008 02:07 PM
Edited by Warmonger at 14:09, 09 Apr 2008.

Woot! You added a lot of features I would never think about... at the same time this project looks quite different than what I expected. Where  actually is any control of map structure? :'

English  description would be helpful I believe.

Looking forward to it!

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SimonaK
SimonaK


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 09, 2008 10:50 PM

The greatest capacity of the H5's RMG lies in its knowledge of the "GroundTerrain.bin" files,
it is thus necessary to continue to exploit its greater force.
It can make very very beautiful map because,
it gives itself much work to put the decoration: Mountains, Flowers, Trees, Cracks, etc etc.
Without counting that it is him more appointed to deploy the type of ground of each zone.

This is why that it is completely logical that the RTMG entirely
leaves him this part of creation.

RTMG create random templates and adds new objets,

(Babel Fish Traduction)


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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted April 10, 2008 06:49 AM
Edited by Warmonger at 07:03, 10 Apr 2008.

Quote:
it gives itself much work to put the decoration: Mountains, Flowers, Trees, Cracks, etc etc.

I would like to switch it off anyway. Random maps have this advanatge that they work much faster than normal ones.

Anyway, is there a chance to implement features like this?

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SimonaK
SimonaK


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 10, 2008 10:57 PM
Edited by SimonaK at 22:58, 10 Apr 2008.

RTMG straightforwardly to create templates by the "random"
and so any edition of templates is not necessary.

RTMG does not have to deal with the decoration of the random maps
with static objects because the H5's RMG does it some very well.

The edition and the "complete creation by the random" are 2 things
completely different.

Quote:
I would like to switch it off anyway


RTMG also has faculty to remove the decoration
of a map by selecting the type of decoration which one
wants to remove.
ex: we can remove all trees or all flowers

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LarkinVB
LarkinVB


Known Hero
posted April 11, 2008 09:55 AM
Edited by LarkinVB at 12:17, 11 Apr 2008.

Excellent news !

It would be nice if you can set density and value of treasures/resources and density of special buildings.

I would love to see these features added : http://heroes.seelge.de/

I'd like to have control over these features for map creation, not just pure random.


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Cleave
Cleave


Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
posted April 12, 2008 11:32 AM

I checked your link on the French forum. I have a question: will your mod remove mines and grant resources after battles?
That would seriously alter the balance of the game IMO.

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SimonaK
SimonaK


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 13, 2008 07:50 AM
Edited by SimonaK at 08:21, 13 Apr 2008.

Hello,

ya, RTMG removes resources and mines on the ground (except abandoned ones)
and modifies creature's properties so that they may give resources.

(Creatures may give artifacts too)

(Abandoned Mines may produce other than gold)

Resources giving is governed by a balance calculation of random numbers
and the quantity of resources which the creatures give is well balanced.

RTMG opens the doors to a new vision of the game play in which,
Resource aprovisionnement is obtained thanks to the battle with the creatures.
Of course, it can still also obtain the resources with abandoned mines
and resources buildings.

Second,

RTMG allows a thing that the H5's RMG does not allow:
it is to have on the ground, a multitude of object which was not there before.
But so that these objects can be added, it is necessary to use
the position of already existing object, therefore, in fact
the resources were sacrificed, removed and these new objects remplace it in the map:

ex:

Magik_Well
Obelisk + Graal
SeerHut (quest)
Hut_Of_Magi + Eye_Of_Magi
Tree_of_Knowledge
Stables
Sphinx
Redwood_Observatory
Magic_Spring
...
...


Between having resources on the ground and to have these objects...
the choice is not difficult to make.

Concerning having automatic and daily resources,
That remains always possible.
There is the building special in the castle, abandonned mines, artifacts.

It is right which the challenge is even larger.

I was not able to translate game IMO
therefore I did not understand this term.
But I think that if there is alteration, it is not negative!



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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted April 13, 2008 08:27 AM

Quote:
I was not able to translate game IMO

Immense Monster Onslaught!

Now I understand what does your generator do... it takes a map and replaces some of the objects with another?
Not impressed, I'm afraid... but combined with Tapani's RMG it may be promising

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LarkinVB
LarkinVB


Known Hero
posted April 13, 2008 12:05 PM
Edited by LarkinVB at 12:07, 13 Apr 2008.

I think replacing mines is a very bad idea.

If the only reason is that you need a building location to add the new stuff then create maps with a high template value of ResourceBuildingsDensity and replace some instead of mines. If you set to 300 you will get 10 resource buildings. Keep some and replace the rest. Or use template values of Prisons or LandCartographer with values > 1. Replace excessive prisons/cartographer buildings with new stuff. Please do not replace mines.



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SimonaK
SimonaK


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 13, 2008 05:12 PM
Edited by SimonaK at 17:19, 13 Apr 2008.

Quote:
but combined with Tapani's RMG it may be promising


Tapani's RMG is obsolet..Terraforming of maps is really not excellent there!
more: this application crashs too mush often

H5's RMG is the best for terraforming because it knows "GroudTerrain.bin" file.

Quote:
Replace excessive prisons/cartographer buildings with new stuff.
Please do not replace mines.

hehe!

RTMG needs at least 100 new locations to add new objects...
only resources are present in so large quantities....
resources on the ground have a dimension 1x1 like
the majority of the new objects,
this is why that it is placed best to be replaced.

Moreover, if the resource were protected,
then the new object will be it too.

you are afraid to miss resources?
the maps makes by the RTMG are tested
and the fact that now the creatures give the resources
do not put in danger the evolution of the heroes.
When we need resources, it is enough to go to fight.

of the beginning, myself, I thought that without mines
that would be disastrous... eh well not! it is even more pleasant
to play without mines...
true searches a true challenge! wait to test!

and don't forget: abandoned mines are still present!
you can still daily have all resources with abandoned mines.

nobody can say that it is bad without to have once tested.


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LarkinVB
LarkinVB


Known Hero
posted April 13, 2008 05:38 PM

Ok, you replace 1x1 resources on map with new objects. I understand this. But why do you remove mines ? I don't get the ratio for this. If you replace them just because you need something bigger than 1x1 for new objects than my suggestion is still valid. Set template cartographer value to 100 and you will get 100 on the map which you can replace. Why mines ?

Of course will test it but I can't see how it will work properly. If I'm sylvan I will look to capture wood mill immediatly. For what creature stacks do I have to look to get my much needed wood ? Is there a wood icon above the stack on the adventure map ?

I love the idea of a better RMG but I really dislike the idea of new game mechanics.

Good luck to your project and thanks for your efforts.


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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted April 13, 2008 05:48 PM

I don't say it's bad, it's just way different than what we expected and different from typical gameplay. However, it may be really fun to play.

Also, you could choose some landscape objects to be replaced I believe...

About obsolete tapani, I agree it has it's disadvanatges, but powergamish map it creates are still ridiculously fun to play. Can you do the same?

Anyway, I just would like to see it working, even if it's not finished. Good luck with it.

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SimonaK
SimonaK


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 13, 2008 05:53 PM
Edited by SimonaK at 18:16, 13 Apr 2008.

Wood and Ore are always given by the creatures after a combat.
The quantity given is according to the tier of the strongest creature.

the quantity is a random number between the tier of this creature
and triple of its tier.

ex:

tier 1 creature : 1 to 3 wood and ore
tier 2 creature : 2 to 6 wood and ore
...
tier 7 creature : 7 to 21 wood and ore


Quote:
I don't get the ratio for this. If you replace them just because you need
something bigger than 1x1 for new objects than my suggestion is still valid.
Set template cartographer value to 100 and you will get 100 on the map which
you can replace. Why mines ?


this idea deserves to be reflects seriously. I will be able to find time to
lean me on this possibility.

Quote:
Why mines ?


Because can that there are no more resources on the ground
and that can that in fact the creatures give the resources,
then we were for the radical method
of the concept "fighting for resources"

Quote:
About obsolete tapani, I agree it has it's disadvanatges, but powergamish map it creates are still ridiculously fun to play. Can you do the same?


In the HoF time, I adored to play with the maps of Tampani RMG.

it is besides what justified me to make the RTMG still more.

And it is without claim which I say that the game play is even more
pleasant with the RTMG.

Quote:
Also, you could choose some landscape objects to be replaced I believe...


landscapes objects (AdvMapStatic objects), for the majority, are mixed with information
of ground in "GroudTerrain.bin" file.

Their use is risked and disadvised



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cotillion
cotillion


Hired Hero
posted April 14, 2008 05:34 PM


This sounds great! The original Nival RMG templates for ToTE are rather weak and uninspiring to play.
Since Tapani's tool is only for HoF, I am very happy that someone is developing a better RMG for ToTE.

Your tool will be the most important 'addon' for ToTE. When will you finish it?


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Cleave
Cleave


Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
posted April 14, 2008 05:56 PM

Quote:
This sounds great! The original Nival RMG templates for ToTE are rather weak and uninspiring to play.


You can learn to make your own templates: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=24002&pagenumber=1 Believe me random maps get much more interesting to play that way.

Quote:
Wood and Ore are always given by the creatures after a combat.
The quantity given is according to the tier of the strongest creature.

the quantity is a random number between the tier of this creature
and triple of its tier.

ex:

tier 1 creature : 1 to 3 wood and ore
tier 2 creature : 2 to 6 wood and ore
...
tier 7 creature : 7 to 21 wood and ore


That looks rather strange, still I guess we'll have to give it a try to see whether it's balanced or not. If you get Abandonned Mines as well it may be easier to come up with the resources you need to build your city. I'm thinking about Sylvan faction for instance, if you get wood after each and every fight on the map you'll end up with enough wood to build Treants Arches rather quickly. Still apart from trading and building the resource upgrade getting other resources is going to be much more complicated. The consequences of such changes are probably going to be quite hard to assess and are going to be quite thorough.
Still, it will most certainly be interesting to try this out.
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13 Heroes

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LarkinVB
LarkinVB


Known Hero
posted April 14, 2008 06:10 PM

Quote:

You can learn to make your own templates: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=24002&pagenumber=1 Believe me random maps get much more interesting to play that way.



This editor is very helpfull just creating templates.

Mixed neutral stacks and more map objects is why I'm looking forward to this editor here.
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cotillion
cotillion


Hired Hero
posted April 14, 2008 08:36 PM

Quote:

You can learn to make your own templates: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=24002&pagenumber=1 Believe me random maps get much more interesting to play that way.



thanks, but this looks too complicated for me. Fortunately, there were some user-made templates but all are for 2 players only.
Are there any good user-made templates for 4+ players size L, XL and bigger

(don't prefer small maps, sorry )

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Cleave
Cleave


Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
posted April 14, 2008 09:11 PM

Quote:
Are there any good user-made templates for 4+ players size L, XL and bigger


You can download the one I made (9 zones, one castle per faction and a bigger neutral zone that has to be crossed to get to another area)  here. It's for L maps, for XL maps I'd suggest you edit the neutral zone:

Quote:
<Index>9</Index>
<Setting>RACE_HEAVEN</Setting>
<CanBeWater>false</CanBeWater>
<Size>20</Size>
<CanBePlayerStart>false</CanBePlayerStart>
<Town>false</Town>
<TownGuardStrenght>0</TownGuardStrenght>
<Mines>
<Item>0</Item>
<Item>0</Item>
<Item>0</Item>
<Item>0</Item>
<Item>0</Item>
<Item>0</Item>
<Item>0</Item>
</Mines>
<AbandonedMines>6</AbandonedMines>
<Dwellings>
<Item>0</Item>
                              <Item>0</Item>
<Item>0</Item>
<Item>0</Item>
<Item>0</Item>
<Item>0</Item>
<Item>0</Item>
</Dwellings>
<UpgBuildingsDensity>60</UpgBuildingsDensity>
<TreasureDensity>100</TreasureDensity>
<TreasureChestDensity>50</TreasureChestDensity>
<Prisons>2</Prisons>
<LandCartographer>0</LandCartographer>
<ShopPoints>40</ShopPoints>
<ShrinePoints>60</ShrinePoints>
<LuckMoralBuildingsDensity>40</LuckMoralBuildingsDensity>
<ResourceBuildingsDensity>200</ResourceBuildingsDensity>
<TreasureBuildingPoints>200</TreasureBuildingPoints>
<TreasureBlocksTotalValue>600000</TreasureBlocksTotalValue>
<DenOfThieves>4</DenOfThieves>
<RedwoodObservatoryDensity>2</RedwoodObservatoryDensity>
<BuffPoints>50</BuffPoints>
</Item>


You should raise the value in bold type to at least 1000000 or even more for larger maps.
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13 Heroes

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SimonaK
SimonaK


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 14, 2008 11:00 PM
Edited by SimonaK at 23:01, 14 Apr 2008.

Quote:
That looks rather strange, still I guess we'll have to give it a try to see whether it's balanced or not.


The resources balance is practically the same one.
I do not know how you took time, to build your castle, before.
but a calculation of balance is ensured in RTMG

RTMG offers a game play which wants to be in an unknown and dubious world.
Where are mixed chance and bad luck, oppportunity and tragedy
Each map is different thanks to the random mechanic.

anyway, you'll see!

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