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Heroes Community > Tournament of Honor > Thread: - New Map: Twilight World -
Thread: - New Map: Twilight World - This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
Towerlord
Towerlord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted June 27, 2009 09:59 AM

It's amazing how you know all these little details, with only ~60 games... you must have a elephant memory or doing a lot of dorking around the manual

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Zilo
Zilo


Promising
Adventuring Hero
posted June 27, 2009 03:16 PM

Re-uploaded 1.8 version, because just noticed that in previous file Doughal is not available (gees, how I managed to do that one? ).

Link is here (changed the link in the previous post, too):
Twilight World (version 1.8)

So sry for little mess-up and enjoy!

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Fraudatio
Fraudatio


Famous Hero
posted June 28, 2009 01:31 PM

Nice Will be fun to check out version 1.8, the wood decrease looks especially interesting as it slows down ossir and his folks a bit i would say, cool to unban Dougal aswell Lvl 1 shrines is a very good idea. Random 40 resourses is also fun I like randomness, makes no games look the same The 140 palas at least makes it a bit more risky to take the staff garrison, at least when one gets more tactical insight on playing the garrison. I have only one or two rounds so i dont know it very well. I bet fighting Zilo and company there would be a nightmaric challenge even with full dark.

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Elit
Elit


Famous Hero
posted July 01, 2009 11:06 AM

I'm Not sure if its your fail Zilo but resurect staf not work how is supposed to work and cost me 1 game.

He give resurect on advance lvl if i dont have higer skill? I have in my game vs Willge exper light but in battle staf did resurect on advance lvl. Difference is huge from expert and advance resurect.

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Zilo
Zilo


Promising
Adventuring Hero
posted July 01, 2009 12:00 PM

Just did some testing with wand and got really weird results indeed. The outcome of the tests is that staff gives you resurrection spell that raises 180 points of health no matter what (i.e., no matter what spellpower you have and no matter what light magic mastery), which is somewhere in between of exp and advanced light.

This is no result of my modding, but just another non-documented "super-smart" Ubi feature.

Although it suits perfectly well with my plans regarding those wands and i'm glad that they work this way (should be harder to take down very early all mega-dwell garnizons for all light towns now), yet its really sad to hear that this one ruined the game for you Elit

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Towerlord
Towerlord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted July 01, 2009 12:29 PM

Quote:
Just did some testing with wand and got really weird results indeed. The outcome of the tests is that staff gives you resurrection spell that raises 180 points of health no matter what (i.e., no matter what spellpower you have and no matter what light magic mastery), which is somewhere in between of exp and advanced light.

This is no result of my modding, but just another non-documented "super-smart" Ubi feature.

Although it suits perfectly well with my plans regarding those wands and i'm glad that they work this way (should be harder to take down very early all mega-dwell garnizons for all light towns now), yet its really sad to hear that this one ruined the game for you Elit


Hmm ... I think scrolls should be back... cause these wands are useless this way. Regeneration Spell is a lot better in most of the  situations for lvl 4 upg creatures  and above ...

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Elit
Elit


Famous Hero
posted July 01, 2009 12:36 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Just did some testing with wand and got really weird results indeed. The outcome of the tests is that staff gives you resurrection spell that raises 180 points of health no matter what (i.e., no matter what spellpower you have and no matter what light magic mastery), which is somewhere in between of exp and advanced light.

This is no result of my modding, but just another non-documented "super-smart" Ubi feature.

Although it suits perfectly well with my plans regarding those wands and i'm glad that they work this way (should be harder to take down very early all mega-dwell garnizons for all light towns now), yet its really sad to hear that this one ruined the game for you Elit


Hmm ... I think scrolls should be back... cause these wands are useless this way. Regeneration Spell is a lot better in most of the  situations for lvl 4 upg creatures  and above ...


I think i wont give TW more chances...My losses "was very bad luck" but my last game with Willge realy pissed me. I did very good game with Inferno. No slow or confusion,decay, so all what i have is ligh magic and regen. My plan was with regen+resurect combo to get mega dweling. Staf is located right before garison so i cant make other battle and notice this "bug". Its realy realy suck way to loss game.

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted July 01, 2009 03:57 PM
Edited by SKPRIMUS at 15:58, 01 Jul 2009.

Hello, some experts are quite funny...
manual 3.1 states wands are all adv mastery at 8 spell pwr
Anyway, love map Zilo (v1.6 & v1.7)
Edit: [sorry, no disrespect intended]
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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Elit
Elit


Famous Hero
posted July 01, 2009 04:17 PM

Quote:
Hello, some experts are quite funny...
manual 3.1 states wands are all adv mastery at 8 spell pwr
Anyway, love map Zilo (v1.6 & v1.7)
Edit: [sorry, no disrespect intended]


Look like its NEW in 3.1 but ingame wand say:"unless
the Hero's Mastery level is higher". For sure most ppl dont know about it...or at least me and Zilo.
In short Wands idea is
All light based towns have good advantage from regen...so its will be more balanced if slow is constand to main town.

Map is interest but after so many versions balance is still bad.

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Elit
Elit


Famous Hero
posted July 01, 2009 07:45 PM

Lets make it more constructive. I dont want to blame Zilo for being n00b Its what i suggest for map changes:

For begin Full dwarf set is bad idea. Full set give almost 100% sure won. For this ppl try to rush in midle garisons and "faster won". Better will be if you replace "Helm of the Dwarven Kings,Cuirass of the Dwarven Kings and Shield of the Dwarven Kings" with random relic. This will make every game different and more unpredict. If you want to keep Dwarf set change places on  "Cuirass of the Dwarven Kings" with Shield of the Dwarven Kings. All go in midle after kill barlog garisons and get four tomes but orc cant use them. Alot balanced will be if he get Imun frenzy...if meet oponent in midle before any garison fight. From other side if other races decide to use "Tome" they cant use "Shield of the Dwarven Kings". Look prety fair trade.

This map have one ULTIMATE skill and its SwifMind. With him all garisons fight are very easy. Ban "Snatch" make it alot more terible. For all game main hero go in sea 3 times. Week 1 for gold mine and dweling lvl 6. Second is for go to island for Mega dweling and last for Titan/Wolfs guard. Week 1 no one can get "snatch" in real. For it you need to up full 6 lvls. Orc have faster access to it but he need WM alot more week 1. Week 2-5 "Snatch" can be used for go in Mega island and Titans but are this give realy huge advantage? For get snatch you need to "loss" SwifMind and up 2 "bad" skills. When map have "Boots of the Open Road" Pathfinding is pure waste skill...same for Scouting. With "snatch" you can save 2-4 turns max for all game. For compare Logistic give alot more bonus vs hero with no log all game. In short back "snatch" or ban "SwifMind" too. One from reasons Sylvan to be so strong atm is his easy access to Swifmind.

SPELS: Make slow spel constant from "Shrine of Magic" to main town. All "good" races have his regen but "bad" races cant use it so good. Inferno realy need slow on this map. Ban "magi fist". Lets Academy/Nerco get Fire Trap 100%. This spel cant won final battle but can help alot them for creeping. Back scrol resurect and remove wands.

Bildings: For begin map have huge lack for up knolege. Its can make huge trubles week one for dungeon, necro,Haven. Will be good idea to put 2 "Crystal of Revelation" in main area close to town. Map is prety "offensive". You can get +5 attack and only +2 def. This help alot all might races. If its possible will be  good half from "Mercenary Camp" to be replaced with Arena. for Academy/Inferno/Dungeon/Dwarf will be alot more useful to up def vs Sylvan/Orc for example.

Academy balances: Map have Huge lack of resurces for mini arts. They have trubles to make 2 arts for all his creatures!!! Almost every game ppl go in midle short after kill barlog garison. Lets killing garison to give reward +20 from all resurces.This can help alot academy for make his mini arts before go in midle.

Sylvan/balances: Ban Ossyr and back Ylthin. With Ossyr you can get week one 17arcane archers and kill very early garisons and go in midle. Ossyr week 3 with all Archers can kill fire garison but Ylthin cant. In final battles Arcanes with Ossyr kill 1 stack with his shot. Ylthin have advantage to start with advance light but she have "Master blesing". For final battle will be alot more useful combo Master Abjuration+Master Wrath+Storm wind..but Ylthin cant get it. In match vs Dungeon cant have "Fire resis" and "Master Wrath" same time.

Inferno/balances: Make dark magic chance 15%. With constant slow to main town this can help them alot. Now they go after WM every game. With expert dark week 1 they don't need WM for creep normal.

If get new ideas will post them later.

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Fraudatio
Fraudatio


Famous Hero
posted July 01, 2009 09:02 PM

I think Elit must have had a rarely bright day Many very good suggestions i would say, i guess not everyone agrees on all of them, but i can agree to quite some extent.

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Jinxer
Jinxer


Legendary Hero
*****
posted July 01, 2009 10:53 PM

Quote:
Lets make it more constructive. I dont want to blame Zilo for being n00b Its what i suggest for map changes:

For begin Full dwarf set is bad idea. Full set give almost 100% sure won. For this ppl try to rush in midle garisons and "faster won". Better will be if you replace "Helm of the Dwarven Kings,Cuirass of the Dwarven Kings and Shield of the Dwarven Kings" with random relic. This will make every game different and more unpredict. If you want to keep Dwarf set change places on  "Cuirass of the Dwarven Kings" with Shield of the Dwarven Kings. All go in midle after kill barlog garisons and get four tomes but orc cant use them. Alot balanced will be if he get Imun frenzy...if meet oponent in midle before any garison fight. From other side if other races decide to use "Tome" they cant use "Shield of the Dwarven Kings". Look prety fair trade.

This map have one ULTIMATE skill and its SwifMind. With him all garisons fight are very easy. Ban "Snatch" make it alot more terible. For all game main hero go in sea 3 times. Week 1 for gold mine and dweling lvl 6. Second is for go to island for Mega dweling and last for Titan/Wolfs guard. Week 1 no one can get "snatch" in real. For it you need to up full 6 lvls. Orc have faster access to it but he need WM alot more week 1. Week 2-5 "Snatch" can be used for go in Mega island and Titans but are this give realy huge advantage? For get snatch you need to "loss" SwifMind and up 2 "bad" skills. When map have "Boots of the Open Road" Pathfinding is pure waste skill...same for Scouting. With "snatch" you can save 2-4 turns max for all game. For compare Logistic give alot more bonus vs hero with no log all game. In short back "snatch" or ban "SwifMind" too. One from reasons Sylvan to be so strong atm is his easy access to Swifmind.

SPELS: Make slow spel constant from "Shrine of Magic" to main town. All "good" races have his regen but "bad" races cant use it so good. Inferno realy need slow on this map. Ban "magi fist". Lets Academy/Nerco get Fire Trap 100%. This spel cant won final battle but can help alot them for creeping. Back scrol resurect and remove wands.

Bildings: For begin map have huge lack for up knolege. Its can make huge trubles week one for dungeon, necro,Haven. Will be good idea to put 2 "Crystal of Revelation" in main area close to town. Map is prety "offensive". You can get +5 attack and only +2 def. This help alot all might races. If its possible will be  good half from "Mercenary Camp" to be replaced with Arena. for Academy/Inferno/Dungeon/Dwarf will be alot more useful to up def vs Sylvan/Orc for example.

Academy balances: Map have Huge lack of resurces for mini arts. They have trubles to make 2 arts for all his creatures!!! Almost every game ppl go in midle short after kill barlog garison. Lets killing garison to give reward +20 from all resurces.This can help alot academy for make his mini arts before go in midle.

Sylvan/balances: Ban Ossyr and back Ylthin. With Ossyr you can get week one 17arcane archers and kill very early garisons and go in midle. Ossyr week 3 with all Archers can kill fire garison but Ylthin cant. In final battles Arcanes with Ossyr kill 1 stack with his shot. Ylthin have advantage to start with advance light but she have "Master blesing". For final battle will be alot more useful combo Master Abjuration+Master Wrath+Storm wind..but Ylthin cant get it. In match vs Dungeon cant have "Fire resis" and "Master Wrath" same time.

Inferno/balances: Make dark magic chance 15%. With constant slow to main town this can help them alot. Now they go after WM every game. With expert dark week 1 they don't need WM for creep normal.

If get new ideas will post them later.



I agree with everything Elit said actually... EXCEPT.. I think his idea of removing preplaced dwarven set is best idea. Make the starting island stay the same and the others random relic.  If you get dwarven set then you was lucky.. not just fast.  Again a complete game should be desired.. Balance the speed yet durabiltiy of your army in the end. Simply winning cause you was fastest to best artifacts regardless how poorly you fought and how carelessly you lost army in pursuit of the game winning artifacts is far from a balanced Complete package for map.

And AGAIN.. both ring and staff MUST not be SOOO close to each other.. If you insist on leaving them BOTH in game and also making it so they can both be worn at same time.. then it would be best to MOVE to RING to some completely Opposite area of map. The idea there is.. if you want both the ring and staff then you would likely have to sacrifice all the other middle goodies.. make it about choices.. NOT about who is fastest to middle gets the Grand prize all in one and wins before final battle.

Very good ideas over all Elit.
____________

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Zilo
Zilo


Promising
Adventuring Hero
posted July 02, 2009 10:51 AM

Nice, so many ideas, will think it over for 1.9

And 1.8 version is available at ToH map page as well (tnx Jinx for fast update there)

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Towerlord
Towerlord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted July 02, 2009 01:05 PM

I don't like many of Elit's changes. they're making the game too straight forward in terms of strategy for some towns... and the real struggle now will be getting Master of Mind and he'll say he's unlucky if he doesnt get it will level 20

I have some suggestions also though :

1. Remodel the starting area, without water, or at least make water an optional thing to visit

2. Remove the Despair Spell from Mage Guilds , cause since there is only one , such a useless spell might make the game bad for its user

3. Put double garrisons around the Shackles Area, Inferno and Necro Garrison area, getting free goodies with a weak secondary is stupid imo... even if normally you should challenge opponent for dominance in those places, sometimes you might want to take things a little slower.

4. Increase production for lvl 4 creatures, some towns really have important creatures in there and they are paying the price for that shortage... Also take into consideration hording buildings for towns somehow, increasing the production (by dwellings) proportionally to that

5. Remove all those free casters/special units in the middle ... having free slow/confusion/righteous for some towns is too much and changes town identity

6. Increase Black Dragon and Caster stacks from middle garrison proportionally to the other stacks

7. Replace 2 pristine with 2 lvl unupg 6(or 3 lvl 5) of town alignment

Also I would either like Regeneration removed from map and weaker garrisons all over the place, or free Light magic @ witch hut on home island(WM for orcs instead by scripting).
____________

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Elit
Elit


Famous Hero
posted July 02, 2009 01:34 PM

Quote:
I don't like many of Elit's changes. they're making the game too straight forward in terms of strategy for some towns... and the real struggle now will be getting Master of Mind and he'll say he's unlucky if he doesnt get it will level 20



Cant all like my suggestion but if you try Inferno and not get WM lvl 2-3...you will have huge trubles to creep fast enough. If you can get dark magic early this can give you second way for play. My suggestion not change race balance because inferno get every game dark. This just help them in week 1.

In my strike with Willge he have 2 match with inferno and he ban both! Do you think its for no reason?

BTW next time try to make better joke. This one is kinda

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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted July 02, 2009 04:15 PM
Edited by infinitus at 16:57, 02 Jul 2009.

Quote:

Cant all like my suggestion but if you try Inferno and not get WM lvl 2-3...you will have huge trubles to creep fast enough.

Deleb can get war machines 100% Just need to select the right hero ...

Quote:
Sylvan/balances: Ban Ossyr and back Ylthin.

Mrrr, i hate word "ban" This is why i never play custom modded maps full of banned content ...
____________
Nothing's impossible

http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY

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Fraudatio
Fraudatio


Famous Hero
posted July 02, 2009 08:53 PM

I will be happy if we can avoid the good old random or not discussion in this thread and stick to the topic, we all know eachothers opinions anyway. I think both Tower and Elit wants to (slightly) decrease the importance of light, which I think is a good idea. Destruction and summon are very rarely taken with main on TW, due to e.g easy access to two dwarfen relics, and i guess summon magic that relies so immensely on a spell like mines in the beginning.

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DrOwnage
DrOwnage


Adventuring Hero
posted July 03, 2009 05:35 PM
Edited by DrOwnage at 17:39, 03 Jul 2009.

Maybe put the staff behind the 13 Balrogs ?

Ossir is strong, Ythlin is stronger, you dont know what you are talking about elit . I feel Sylvan is very strong here, not only because its the only race i was ever able to beat zilo with . Just finished a game vs Lixues Ossir with barbarians (Garuna) and lost. I had 3 megadwellings, he 2, i had the ring, he had dwarven shield, so i think spoils were pretty evenly divided. I got everything i wanted, still he won easily. Okay, he screwed the 5 Balrog Garrison and did only survive because i thought it stupid that he should die because his archers didnt hit balrogs and passed 5-6 actions with my balrogs. But anyway i got the feeling i could have done what i wanted and wouldnt have had a chance if he didnt screw vs neutrals.

About Academy and Inferno i dont know if they are balanced here

But couldnt you, Zilo, incorporate a couple of additional spicy challenges with appropriate rewards on the map that are not player controlled ? Ressources are pretty low anyway on the map and those garrison fights are nice but sometimes get on my nerves (sometimes too long vs certain players o_O) and most important it would be more fun !

All the other stuff that Elit mentioned isnt necessary or would rid the game of many of its elements of randomness and i think chance should play a certain role in the game. If one doesnt like playing with elements of (bad)luck you should play chess and memorize 1000 of moves, so chance will never bother your game again. But plz people: dont complain all the time how the game %$"!& you. Once or twice per session is okay, but all the time, gaahhhh ....

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Elit
Elit


Famous Hero
posted July 03, 2009 07:26 PM

Quote:
Maybe put the staff behind the 13 Balrogs ?

Ossir is strong, Ythlin is stronger, you dont know what you are talking about elit .



Actualy i know Lets explain. For begin ossir have faster start week 1 and he kill more easy mine garison. Second on map have 4 dweling for lvl 3 and 1 for lvl 5 + 3 mega dwelings but you get mega week 4-5. Week 2 you can get 1-2 from lvl 3 delings and week 3 to have all 4. This is huge bonus for sylvan+ossir. Normal town grow with castle is 12 elfs (its only for TW) vs 6 unicorns. If you get 1 dweling lvl 3 week 2 and week 3 you can get all 3 dwelings so grow is 12+4+24=40 elfs for week 4. Week 1 you can get 3 unicorns week 2 6. Week 3 you will get dweling lvl 5 so grow is 9 total. its make day 1 week 4 with new groow 88 elfs vs  31 unicorns. Now you need to go kill 2 from 3 mega dwelings. I think Ossir is stronger for this job.

Quote:

All the other stuff that Elit mentioned isnt necessary or would rid the game of many of its elements of randomness and i think chance should play a certain role in the game. If one doesnt like playing with elements of (bad)luck you should play chess and memorize 1000 of moves, so chance will never bother your game again. But plz people: dont complain all the time how the game %$"!& you. Once or twice per session is okay, but all the time, gaahhhh ....


Actualy your problem is you are playing almost all games with orc. For him no "random" factor. All his spels are good enough and Fear is ultimate good for garison fight. Maybe if you try few games with academy/inferno you will change your view. Map is so specific and need specific balances. Inferno with no slow is terible on TW. All races can use his special skill only academy cant...and map have + 4 spel power total and +2 knolege so academy cant make good mini arts. Sure its NOT balanced. 5 attack vs 2 def. For example if we switch to 5 def vs 2 attack this will make sylvan alot less good in final battle.

From my 4 games vs Willge and LordMichal i can tell both games with sylvan+Ossir they creeped very fast and well and both games with different races they did alot slower and less good.

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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted July 04, 2009 09:04 AM
Edited by infinitus at 09:11, 04 Jul 2009.

Quote:
In my strike with Willge he have 2 match with inferno and he ban both! Do you think its for no reason?

The reason is simple, he don't like to play inferno. Most imbalances are created by players, not by game... For example for long, long time on 2m my opponents played vs me Sylvan, Haven, Orcs, Academy ... All other factions was considered week on 2m by this players , by me. Now Vex come on 2m and beat me to death with dungeon, dwarfs, and now with inferno ... My Ossir, Wyngall fall in battle this days again

Quote:
From my 4 games vs Willge and LordMichal i can tell both games with sylvan+Ossir they creeped very fast and well and both games with different races they did alot slower and less good.

Week argument. The reason is the same, if you take a look to UBI account of Willge you will see that Sylvan are his favorite faction, most played by him. He is most proficient with Sylvan.

To Elit - you consider Ossir imba on TW. Play him vs Will or Dr Ownage on TW, i sure you will change your opinions after such games
Good argument will be game Elit (Ossir) vs Dr Ownage (Ylthin)...
Practice beat theory in this case ...
____________
Nothing's impossible

http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY

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