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majaczek
Supreme Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
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posted March 28, 2012 11:14 PM |
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Quote:
In battle creatures are numbered differently that their normal stacks for the EA receiver. 0 is -1 1 is -2 all the way to -42 for stack 41.
I know this.
argument>=0 is creature type
argument<0 is -1 -battle_creature_number
I can read erm help. but the problem is it seem to work internally (creature experience line added, creature line get0 return positive etc), but it have no effect on actual battle. first i thought i fire this too late (were using santa gremlin guards), but for death knight double damage it also doesn't work.
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Kegolo
Promising
Famous Hero
of infamy
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posted March 30, 2012 02:29 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
In battle creatures are numbered differently that their normal stacks for the EA receiver. 0 is -1 1 is -2 all the way to -42 for stack 41.
I know this.
argument>=0 is creature type
argument<0 is -1 -battle_creature_number
I can read erm help. but the problem is it seem to work internally (creature experience line added, creature line get0 return positive etc), but it have no effect on actual battle. first i thought i fire this too late (were using santa gremlin guards), but for death knight double damage it also doesn't work.
One thing about double damage is there is an internal % that you cannot increase. Even if you give it 100% at all levels it still will not occur every time. One way to get around this is in the !!MF receiver play the animation and sound, and double the damage manually. Slightly more tricky is to get the corrected damage into the message bar, but doing that works better really than adding the EA lines
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majaczek
Supreme Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
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posted March 31, 2012 01:14 PM |
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Okay, battle experience doesn't work at all on "real" commanders. This is probably trying to be a feature of differentating between actual commander and just monster which has same CreID as commander (Those monsters actually have set experience lines by default, and if not this "feature", normal commanders would have same experience lines). the monsters are used in creature banks and similair places.
I have done scripted hack, to partially disable comander support, which keeps per-hero commander stats, pre-battle and post-battle events, leveling of commander, but makes commander practically unexistent on battlefield. Instead I summoned with !!BU:S monster with same CreID as commander (which is called "monster commander" in erm help), and put back the secondary skills via Stack Experience, and checking with some "other" stack experience lines in this approach Stack Experience actually works. The problem is that shaman, temple guardian, Hierophant, and Ogre Leader specialities doesn't work as those opposed to specialities of other commanders are fully in-battle abilities. Also I have to support Commander artifacts with my own routines. But the base Aim is achieved - to make fake commander which approves Stack Experience. The code changed 1/3 of Enchanced commander script and added twice as much code of my pure creation as it was in oryginal script. But I'm proud I achieved this much with pure scripting (and using only one ugly hack, which weren't !!UN:C - my code is totally !!UN:C-free).
As some thesis said "20% of result is effect of 80% of work" I had to rewrite many of commander mechanics via scripting, and made the script totally dependent of ERA (myriads of !!SN:W variables uses, which would consume unacceptably much of normal global variables if it weren't dependent on ERA, also as much as 4 new functrions yet introduced, which is acceptable in ERA, but in wog...)
my script would be public, once it would be completed, and it also would allow use of any Stack Experience abilities instead of those from hardcoded commanders, but Santa Guards (Which just doesn't work with any summoned creatures as a master, because it appears too late).
IRONICALLY thought I'm failed on relatively trivial thing - I didn't managed to work with Stack Experience Deathstare Ability. I couldn't make it work with + = or % syntax of experience line (it appear in stack experience abilities list, and I checked abilities like Cast Spell Before Attack works). Can anyone Present working syntax of Deathstare experience line which works on creatures which oryginally didn't have this ability? (so no increasing of eg. effect of gorgons deathstare, but for example adding deathstare to pikeman via stack experience).
If I fail i may use another ability in place of old. (shooting is actually replaced with scripted ability named flash swing which is just chance of casting Titan's Lighting bolt on target after attack which increases per level by 1% which works like Poison from same script, and works on real commanders too since it doesn't use stack experience at all - Shooting on commander really sucks as it makes many other abilities worthless). I also want to replace ignore 50% target defence with something (not yet decided), I already replaced paralyze chance with Blind Chance, and I probably replace Maximum Damage Always with something more creative (commanders in my script probably will have this flag set by default - yeah one of tiny number of things availible through monster flags), and I'm fighting with Idea of adding "Attack and return" for were-shooters additionally to my precious and epic chance of causing electric strike by fast moving weapons as included in description (yes I also modded Commander text file resource, and replaced some of Image resources). I still want to implement something epic instead of those four not working specialities (Temple Guardian one is a bit weak, shaman's one is definately weak, and ones from Ogre Leader and Hierophant were boring and dependent on other wog options middle strong to much overpowered - well it seems i may have a conflict with War machines II script which I will check). Funny enough there as much as 19 slots for Stack Experience lines to use at once, and it was only 15 commander secondary skills from which two were saved by replacing with scripted abilities (mentioned flash swing, and Fire shield which is now merged with magic mirror) a few more was saved by using monster flags, and one was "wasted" on implementing magic resistance. So I have about 7-9 lines to use for other things than implementing commander secondary skills, which may be used for specialities of mentioned 4 commanders (each one will have independent lines) and for effects of artifacts (some boring but usefull can be reimplemented almost as previous, but I actually have to replace the bow artifact with something useful - it of course will give ability which replaced shooting as those is hardcoded, but NO * PENALTY FOR SHOOTERS is useless since there are no shooters in my commanders)
------------------
FOR ONES DOESN'T WANT TO READ ALL - READ THE SECTION STARTING WITH "IRONICALLLY" AS THERE I ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT RELATIVELY EASY PROBLEM
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 31, 2012 02:28 PM |
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I like the way they handle own abilities, independent of stack experience ones. However I never used them for any of my maps or mods because they grow too fast and give unpredicted results, in terms of balance. Also the death stare and block ability are a game break, hate them. Hope you achieve something interesting about commanders, so they can finally get a correct behavior, not like chinese mods where they have million of hit points later.
I never could make work death stare neither.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2012 03:00 PM |
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To find the format for any experience line, make a test map, put a Hero in the map, give the Hero a creature which has the experience line (e.g, Mighty Gorgon for Death Stare) - all of this is done in the Map Editor - then write a simple ERM script which lists the parameters of experience lines 6-13 for any creature which is right-clicked in the Hero Screen.
To summon a Master Gremlin which will have guards - do it under the BF trigger so the stack is added before the start of the battle, as guards are only applied at the start of a battle (see the Henchman script, for example).
If you try one method and it doesn't work as you hoped it would, try another method. Note that the Henchman script keeps track of Henchman battle experience without any hacking of h3wog.exe.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 31, 2012 05:09 PM |
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If stack experience enabled, gorgons have death stare in 6th slot, and if removed, it still works as natural ability. On the other side, adding death stare to any creature does nothing. Probably must be hardcoded, with EA never made it work.
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Era II mods and utilities
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majaczek
Supreme Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
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posted March 31, 2012 05:15 PM |
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Edited by majaczek at 20:48, 31 Mar 2012.
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mighty gorgon have hardcoded death stare not only stack experience ones.
It seems that Stack experience feature of death stare just increases the effect of hardcoded death stare, so I have to find something instead.
You cannot summon any monster inside !?BF trigger because summoning need !!BU:S and erm manual claims that !!BU receiver can be used only in !?BR and !?BG triggers
In my script commanders seem to be even more powerful, and the commander will keep some features of hardcoded commander due to hack I used. However I have almost complete control over fake commanders during battle, so many things can be achieved. for example i can make commander artifacts more balanced because in my approach all commander artifacts which doesn't affect commander secondary skills is considered dummy. I have also to prepare replacement for specialities of 4 mentioned commanders.
Since commander are no more shooters, I will make commander Bow to give "strike and return" and some another ability (image would be changed too).
@down
changing type of creature? is it a similair script use as in script for making catapult a normal shooter (it showed magog icon when hovered)... also won't make it hard to identify the fake commander stack? (some script parts identify it by type)
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2012 05:25 PM |
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Edited by JimV at 17:30, 31 Mar 2012.
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Changing the EA line for Mighty Gorgons changes the frequency with which the stack applies Death Stare. (See the battle with the wild bull in "The Swords of Night and Day".) (Note: the EA line percentages are in addition to the "natural" value which is something like 2% or maybe 5% times the number of creatures in the stack.) So it works to that extent. I have not tested it with other creatures, but as usual there would be an ERM solution (change the creature type to Mighty Gorgon or Nightmare), and possibly a UN:C solution similar to the one which changes non-casting creatures to casting creatures. If I ever need Death Stare for some other creature I will work on it - until then it is somebody else's job.
Personally I don't like Death Stare for Commanders because it occurs after Paralyze and cancels the latter. I would rather have the enemy stack paralyzed.
Edit - a couple of posts occurred previous to this one, while I was typing it. BU:S and other stack commands also work under BF (but not BA0). Again, look at the Henchman script, which works fine with BU:S under BF. That was one of the changes I was thinking of making to the 3.58f ERM Help, but since 3.58f is now obsolete it doesn't seem very useful to update it any more. Perhaps Solitaire345 will fix the 3.59 ERM Help.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 31, 2012 05:26 PM |
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BU receiver will work after BF trigger, ERM help was never complete. If you can place obstacles within, it makes sense to be able to place also creatures.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2012 05:53 PM |
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P.S. EA line 6 for Mighty Gorgons has Death Stare. I am not very patient with people who contradict me without first checking their "facts" when I am trying to help them, although I suppose it was my mistake to respond in the first place.
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majaczek
Supreme Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
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posted March 31, 2012 08:40 PM |
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Okay JimV, it has both the hardcoded ability, and the experience line.
So the result is same - it doesn't seem to work on stacks with haven't death stare as hardcoded option.
currently this part works as skills via stack experience
!!EAy25:F0/?y10; //age - instead of ignore 50% target defence
!!EAy25&x16<=182/y50>0:By10/1/99/75/33/33/33/33/33/33/33/33/33/33/33;
!!EAy25&x16>=183/y70>0:By10/1/99/75/33/33/33/33/33/33/33/33/33/33/33;
!!EAy25:F0/?y10; //Fearsome
!!EAy25&x16<=182/y51>0:By10/1/70/37/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1;
!!EAy25&x16>=183/y71>0:By10/1/70/37/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1;
!!EAy25:F0/?y10; //death blow - instead of maximum damage
!!EAy25&x16<=182/y52>0:By10/1/101/37/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50;
!!EAy25&x16>=183/y72>0:By10/1/101/37/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50;
!!EAy25:F0/?y10; //unlimited retaliations
!!EAy25&x16<=182/y55>0:By10/1/82/61/5000/5000/5000/5000/5000/5000/5000/5000/5000/5000/5000;
!!EAy25&x16>=183/y75>0:By10/1/82/61/5000/5000/5000/5000/5000/5000/5000/5000/5000/5000/5000;
!!EAy25:F0/?y10; //Block
!!EAy25&x16<=182/y58>0:By10/1/66/37/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50;
!!EAy25&x16>=183/y78>0:By10/1/66/37/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50;
!!EAy25:F0/?y10; //Strike twice
!!EAy25&x16<=182/y59>0:By10/1/102/68/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1;
!!EAy25&x16>=183/y79>0:By10/1/102/68/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1;
!!EAy25:F0/?y10; //blind (instead of paralyze)
!!EAy25&x16<=182/y60>0:By10/1/99/62/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50;
!!EAy25&x16>=183/y80>0:By10/1/99/62/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50;
!!EAy25:F0/?y10; //regeneration
!!EAy25&x16<=182/y61>0:By10/1/114/100/250/250/250/250/250/250/250/250/250/250/250;
!!EAy25&x16>=183/y81>0:By10/1/114/100/250/250/250/250/250/250/250/250/250/250/250;
!!EAy25:F0/?y10; //grenadier - instead of death stare
!!EAy25&x16<=182/y62>0:By10/1/74/11/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50;
!!EAy25&x16>=183/y82>0:By10/1/74/11/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50;
!!EAy25:F0/?y10; //champion charge
!!EAy25&x16<=182/y63>0:By10/1/102/99/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1;
!!EAy25&x16>=183/y83>0:By10/1/102/99/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1;
of course there also code for handling monster flags, stats and magic resistance. also fake comanders never shoot, always take maximum damage etc. I also need good values of primary skill points per primary skill levels and how level affects primary skill points. I also need information about balance of such settings. also perhaps some ideas for effects of commander helmet, bow, and ring. also restore previous parameters of other commander artifacts or rather make something special for one of? how do you feel the new Temple Guardian, Hierophant, Ogre leader, and Shaman Specialities should look like? also note there's only 20 lines of stack experience and all must fit into at once... The Commander bow surely needs new look as it isn't bow anymore.
I'm pretty tired of working at it as it took me almost a week to prepare internals of the script (the quote is only a tiny part of script). I still haven't scripted any artifacts and I'm also tired on thinking what to do with the four commanders. Also keep flying as gettable ability, or make commander's flying a default and use the slot for something other?
permanent fire shield skill, was replaced with almost permanent advanced fire shield + advanced magic mirror. and shooting was replaced with scripted "Flash Swing" which is (7 + commander level) percent per attack to cast Titan's lighting bolt which I feel is not enough chance. Grenadier (chance to cast advanced land mine before attack) seems to overpowered ability with current percentage.
I may try moving summon to !?BR phase which I feel better since there would be no problem with hero with no army. I may also try to make Santa Guards a speciality, but I feel it may fail since !!EA values seem cannot be more than 136 (or it displays it wrong).
Also If there's any scripted ability which you prefer to have for one of four commanders please talk. I may also consider making the count of units in commander stack more than one (Perhaps a few weaker commanders In a stack? an ability for rebirth? A swarm Speciality - more commanders per a few levels?)
Oh I noticed the power of spells doesn't work as commander power? I may find some scripted approach. And I currently wanted Paladins to cast ressurect, which makes soul eater a much weaker commander.
Since Santa Guards seem to be affected by owning hero type, it may not be greatest idea. I may consider making use for single/multiple summons Stack Experience feature, or even making !!BU:S summon as scripted feature of commander. I may consider making shaman summoning big stacks of halfings, making Soul Eater summoning middle sized stack of ghosts, and making Temple Guardian summoning small stack of enchanters.
well there's many possibilities but I seem tired because of not sleeping about 38 hours.
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Bersy
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2012 09:56 PM |
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Quote:
well there's many possibilities but I seem tired because of not sleeping about 38 hours.
You're in a zombie-mode, hurry up to have a rest ) Commanders can have EA abilities after binary patch for all or most of checks.
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majaczek
Supreme Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
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posted April 02, 2012 05:07 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
well there's many possibilities but I seem tired because of not sleeping about 38 hours.
You're in a zombie-mode, hurry up to have a rest ) Commanders can have EA abilities after binary patch for all or most of checks.
well the hours wasn't linked actually for me coding, but with me having a party overnight, and I slept about 14 hours after the "twice-day"
I'm much less proud of my hack as it seems you have found the "easier" way. I'm proud of you if you actually found how to achieve that, but I'm angry of myself wasting few times a few hours on script hacks, which could be for example used for making ERA and SU bits of SU_merged actually compatible. I guess I should just work on my study tiny-exams and semester-projects as I was too hasty to begin such a script. Yeah sure I should know I need to know I should check the constants if I want to prepare the patch (those constants actually come from public ERM:C Format).
Well I hope not all work on the commander code were wasted, as I seem to prepare unified interface to check If the commander had an ability at the beginning of battle (the abilities were switched off temporary in oryginal Enchanced Commmander script). I hope to include a part of the script in my new version of merged_SU package - actually the informative part, and a fix to restore all abilities after a battle in case someone still want to edit the script in any way (it only checked for the two which it temporary disabled). So changes I include in merged_SU package for the Enchanced commander script, would be purely internal, but needed for future compability. The interface should allow to check the starting parameters of commanders on both sides of battle, regardless of enchanced commanders future changes, and regardless if enchanced comanders is on or of, absolute properly, and should be in future used instead of checking the actual parameters of "attacker's commander" and "defender's commander". The part of script I want to promote to official SU package is almost completely done just it needs test for "random hero" wog option compability, as it seems to give commander to random hero which helps stationary/wandering monsters, a bit later than the checks are done. So I hope at least this part of work will have actual profits.
Have you already checked what needs to be done in binary plugin, or it is a task for me? I want to standarise the feature and actually make use of flags field in !!EA commands. the flag just could be "2"-valued and mean - "apply for commander too" which enable us to keep the pros of the "feature" which disabled !!EA for commanders (to not keep efects on real commander of lines mentioned "only" for monster commander). If it is a task for myself still, I feel much easier for making it now, and I'll try to do this soon but I seem to have badly prepare for my duty on studies, so i seem to have very low time for wog/era now.
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Bersy
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted April 02, 2012 06:46 PM |
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I can try to make a binary patch, if it suits you. There are about 56 addresses.
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majaczek
Supreme Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
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posted April 02, 2012 08:56 PM |
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Quote:
I can try to make a binary patch, if it suits you. There are about 56 addresses.
Thanks, Yes. Please be sure to make it a conditional on a Flag 2 (flags&2>0) of !!EA lines flags, so a lines only with flag 1 but not flag would work only on monster commander, and lines with flag 2 would work on both monster commander and real commander. You could also include flag 4 (flags&4>0) to make work as flag 1 but only for Real commander (so not for monster commander). I hope it will not be hard for you. Or somewhat you find more consistent, but please make it dependent on new flag in !!EA lines flags.
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Bersy
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted April 02, 2012 10:10 PM |
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Binary patch can just remove commander's special abilities at all. It's not sources correction, but constants correction. So it's up to you to decide. The patch would make commanders ordinary units.
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majaczek
Supreme Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
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posted April 02, 2012 11:09 PM |
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Quote:
Binary patch can just remove commander's special abilities at all. It's not sources correction, but constants correction. So it's up to you to decide. The patch would make commanders ordinary units.
But they would still take bonuses from commander skills? It's only in terms of Stack experience? They would still take benefits from artifacts/specialities?
If they became ordinary units in any means (so they are not ordinary only in terms of stack experience), then it seem to be almost no use of this patch to me (It's easy to have similair effects from skills after a bit of work).
My intention for the patch is to make commander accept !!EA bonuses, but keep most of their other capabilities. So if it isn't so easily accesible, then my scripted approach work better. (commander get level up, per-hero commander stats are remembered, in some early whiles during battle !!CO receiver work perfectly, pre-battle and post-battle events work, etc.). I hope you managed to achieve something similair to my intention. If not the binary plugin should also be published because some people can make some use of it.
So I understand it's constant correction only? okay it can make some use, but i believe for my purporse, the constant should be changed only in SOME places, not ALL places. If you want prepare patch which changes it in all places, please be sure to include source (the txt file), so I can test which of these should be taken down and which should be kept, so I can make a forked version of the binary patch, to disable only some properties of comanders. (If it's constant correction I probably would want only disable "no stack experience effects" feature while keep all others, but it would be nice to have a list of all adresses which contain these constants... I can manage disabling and enabling of the lines on script side so Experience Lines would be only used when I want.)
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Bersy
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted April 03, 2012 05:26 PM |
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Quote:
So I understand it's constant correction only?
Right.
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majaczek
Supreme Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
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posted April 12, 2012 02:42 PM |
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Edited by majaczek at 15:23, 12 Apr 2012.
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Quote:
It will not work, as they are not linked to any projectile type, so game will crash. Use shooters to shoot and melee to melee. There are some ways to change that, but far too complicate and buggy atm.
But there's monster flag 2048 meaning "shoot ray instead of projectile" and if creature doesn't have hardcoded ray color it seems to make black ray. Have you checked that by setting flag 2048 and adding shooting/more_shots via Stack experience works as a method to add shooting to a Creature number which is hardcoded to not shoot? Also I remember there is a monster flag for shooting, and erm command to set number of shots. I already know forcing a creature to shoot which has no projectile or shooting animation is supposed to crash the game. There already are script using UN:C to fix this, but I was curious if there exist methods to do this while avoiding UN:C.
Let go back to Creature experience. I remember in original WoG Centaurs has a Stack Experience ability to shoot, which makes me resistive to upgrade to centaur captains which doesn't have it. The centaurs already shoots projectile and animation while shooting is very similair to one attacking in meelee. Does this depends on something hardcoded in WoG (eg. hardcoded projectile for centaur and/or modified centaur DEF to include "shooting" animation) or were you initially wrong about adding shooting via stack experience to non shooter shouldn't work because already WoG stack experience code mantain the problem? I suppose "Yes and NO" is also possible meaning, the modder have to include "shooting" animation for his creature, but adding shooting via SE already sets the correct projectile. Does setting shooting via stack experience to anything more than 1 already change the projectile? (If you set invalid stack experience line, game wouldn't crash but very gently and transparently suggest that such is invalid, at least when you specify one which the game know nothing about such as using numbers out of format).
Anyway the precious few-line function for make creature shoot with any desired projectile from hardcoded list, seems more universal, however foggy (it of course require creature to have at least "shooting" animation). Also intresting is that game binds 82m sound file to each creature including non-shooters with similair naming scheme as DEF files are, also game creators have the files missing so having working shooter from non-shooter generates popup about missing file with it's name each time it shoots until we provide the file (it may be easier to run game with incomplete creature than guessing the name of sound file).
==========================================
Salamandre said there is one spell before attack, and one after. He said that spell cannot be totally random - modder should provide the list. The question is - what happens if I add two or more different spells to be cast all after attack? Does just creature select random from attached list? Also is there or why isn't there an ability to add enchanter-like, genie-like or faerie-dragon-like spellcasting via such easy to use mechanism as Stacke Experience? Also the SE Ability to cast spell, does it work on normal casters (the casters which have to be commanded to cast a spell)? Adding for example mass beneficial spell before Attack to Faerie dragon should make it more interesting.
If there's random spellcaster via Stack Experience does chances stack in some way? How?
I also know that there already exist a script with UN:C allowing any creature to be spellcaster in any style from regular WoG/SoD spellcasters, and I'm curious how it would cooperate with spells from stack experience. The script in version I seen weren't good commented - should it allow random spell from the list?
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It's well known that some hardcoded abilities and/or Stack Experience abilities and/or monster flags do not work together. Hence the fixed Emerald Tower script in SU to not make Vampires useless (and upgrading Vampires to having them weaker just because opponent has a Necropoly wasn't aimed result of the script). So I want to ask: What if creature has life sucking like Vampires, or soul sucking like ghosts AND is a shooter? Would the former ability won't work, work only on meelee, work only on shooting, or suprisingly work at both? What if Spellcaster is a "Sucker" - does it have any sense?
Unrelated: I know any creature can be choosen for speciality of hero... would it work on commander? sure we need to specify upgrade between defender one and attacker one to such specialty be useful also when we defend, but the Question is - would it work at all?
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Kegolo
Promising
Famous Hero
of infamy
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posted April 12, 2012 04:28 PM |
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Edited by Kegolo at 16:31, 12 Apr 2012.
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I wonder if anyone has taken the time to replaced all 196 creatures using OxFEA's adding creature plugin. This would solve all these issues as you can make anyone shoot and also know the sound names exactly.
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This thread is pages long: 
