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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Breaking with dungeon on art of war
Thread: Breaking with dungeon on art of war
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 07, 2008 11:32 AM

Breaking with dungeon on art of war

ok, I played a game recently, got the map almost cleared in second week, found slippers, got meteor shower, ignite and (unfortunately) fire wall >.> Managed to build dragons week two, and at start of week five I have full pop of black dragons, hydras, raiders and furies, with some witches to cast slow. 31 spell power and about 200 mana. I want to break through the garrison, but the question is - how >.>

since it was a training game, my mate agreed to save the game and try different break approaches. Invis stalker was obviously a failure (too many casters). Traditional approach -> many loses (17 emeralds ain't weak). Stalker+hydra -> I lose all hydras and barely manage to break. Wtf? I'd take light to go for ressurect+regeneration red dragons, but I wasn't offered light, unfortunately. And I don't have swift mind, unfortunately (got all pre requisites but I wasn't offered it, damnit.). I want to break now cause my mate plays sylvan and I don't want to wait for his GG army, especially since I don't have armageddon

any tips? Should I wait, break with loses, or something else? We saved the game and we'll continue it today, and I want to be prepared this time

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 07, 2008 11:48 AM
Edited by Elvin at 11:49, 07 Sep 2008.

Why go from the good garrison..? Take the evil one that is easier It's across the bridge close to the spell shop, underground. Don't know if stalkers alone can do the job but the shrine near town gives regeneration so deep hydras or shadow dragons may also do the trick.

Alternatively hit&run the garrison
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 07, 2008 11:50 AM

there is a second one? omg im so stupid

but if I remember correctly there is a staff of netherworlds after the strong one. What if the sylvan dude goes with his crystal drags and regen and gets it while I'm going the other way? Sylvan with staff of netherworlds lol, thank you

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 07, 2008 11:53 AM

I think the relic is random but then again with such a garrison it would be a real gamble even for the staff. If the AI controlled it maybe but with you moving the pieces..
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 07, 2008 11:57 AM

true. Well, I think you can break with regen+ressurection with no loses anyway

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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted September 07, 2008 11:58 AM
Edited by samiekl at 12:52, 07 Sep 2008.

You must do it the traditional way, with birdie. 6 furies and hydras. you'll loose 6 furies.
Btw, the guards are totally unbalanced there. The evil garrison is too easy compared to the good one.

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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted September 11, 2008 05:31 PM
Edited by Asheera at 17:42, 11 Sep 2008.

I don't know how can you break even the Evil Garrison in week 5... didn't play this map yet but from what I see, there are 17 Black Dragons (which are immune to your spells - well, Irresistible Magic comes into play but your damage will be reduced), 400 Familiars to drain 100 of your mana, and a lot of other nasty creatures

I'd like to see some kind of replay, because I find it impossible without heavy losses


EDIT: Elvin, I don't know if that Shrine near town gives only Regeneration, I got Raise Dead from it... maybe it was in your particular case Regen...
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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted September 11, 2008 06:19 PM

I would Take Intelligence, and Erratic Mana, that could help a lot (also: Swft Mind). Warlock's Luck would help as well, Hope for a Lucky Empowered Implosion or Deep Freeze on the Familiars...
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 11, 2008 06:28 PM

@Asheera
It's set as regeneration from the editor, you play AoW 1.3 right?

Uh huh and how do you think you'll kill 17 blackies Lexxan? Along with all the other charging units and your fragile army that can't survive long? Unless you lvl up a necromancer to raise 7 ghosts
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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted September 11, 2008 06:34 PM
Edited by Asheera at 18:47, 11 Sep 2008.

Quote:
It's set as regeneration from the editor, you play AoW 1.3 right?
Yes.

btw, I was player 2, and the Shrine is that in the South of town (behind it), right?


EDIT: and even with Regen, it's still too tough. I mean, first of all you'll be drained of 100 mana, then you'll have to kill 17 Black Dragons, 20 Shadow Matriarchs, 400 Familiars and other nasty creatures, and at the same time prevent your units from getting annihilated casting Regeneration with the remaining mana.

On top of this, killing those creatures with only your army is incredibly difficult, and you'll need the aid of hero's spells - yet again another mana & hero_turn usage


I'd still like a replay Or even more (if there are), so that it's not a "particular lucky" situation in one of them
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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted September 11, 2008 06:50 PM
Edited by samiekl at 18:51, 11 Sep 2008.

Quote:
I don't know how can you break even the Evil Garrison in week 5... didn't play this map yet but from what I see, there are 17 Black Dragons (which are immune to your spells - well, Irresistible Magic comes into play but your damage will be reduced), 400 Familiars to drain 100 of your mana, and a lot of other nasty creatures

Get all hydras and 6 stacks of 1 fury. when the battle starts, position the furies in a way that the black dragons don't reach the hydras. First spell is bird. The bird will take care of dragons while meteor,fireball, etc kills everything else. If your hydras are hit, don't kill all archers, leave a few of them, so you can wait with hydras till they get back to normal number. You'll only loose the furies.
This is the standard breaking technique on every map.

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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted September 11, 2008 06:52 PM
Edited by Asheera at 18:53, 11 Sep 2008.

Hmm, what if you don't have Summoning or Phoenix spell

EDIT: and for Phoenix + Other Destructive spells you must have HUGE mana (since you're also drained of 100)
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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted September 11, 2008 06:56 PM

You must have summoning. I take summoning on any blind map. It's safe. No bird, use other spells, summoning is good protective school. Mana is never a problem.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 11, 2008 06:57 PM

the mana is not that much of a problem, I ended up with 260 if I remember correct in my first try on that map. Even with -100 from the familiars I'd still be able to summon phoenix and throw a few meteors

It's worse when you don't have conjure phoenix, but you have guild, spell shop, utopia and pyramid, a lot of places to get that spell I think.

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fiur
fiur


Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
posted September 12, 2008 08:47 AM

well since I made the map...  I may add a few lines here....
(yes the shrine close to stable always give you regen. spell, always guarded by some magies)
you can also buy the ress. spell (at the "tent", but be warned you need exp. light magic to used it....)

about garrisons... yes they can be hard sometimes... (when I get back from work I'll check if I can post a few replays)
And as Samiekl says... the "good" one is harder than the "evil" one...
atleast on the "paper"...If I wanted to break the "evil" one as Warlock I would have taken down everything than just a few firehounds.... that way your deephydras will get plenty of time to regenerate (no retaliations against those hounds remember)....
(to break the "good" one is plain simple with light or dark magic)
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adon
adon


Known Hero
posted September 24, 2008 05:45 PM

Quote:
Hey there.

I have big problem how to win dungeon vs skilled runemage.(fortress)

Example :
1st - He have always mass shield guardian (about 250) + defence skill 3 lvl + vitality ( offcourse also rest of creatures from his castle but im saying where is the problem)
2nd - He can use twice run of ressurection = 80 % dead units are back
+ run of berserker + run of battlerage which couse he can make his units to be like hydra or even more.

Any sugestions how to win vs this??



Wrong thread for this. But the short answer is to rush him early. Fortress is incredibly weak in early game due to poor creeping ability and high cost of creature dwellings, while Dungeon is very strong early game.  Try to end the game in the first month.  The guard tower was nerfed a lot in Tote and early game shouldn't pose a problem.

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