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Heroes Community > Tournament of Honor > Thread: Arena -THE MAP - updates and future changes
Thread: Arena -THE MAP - updates and future changes This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
Towerlord
Towerlord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted December 05, 2008 05:51 PM
Edited by Towerlord at 17:39, 20 Oct 2009.

Arena -THE MAP - updates and future changes

This is a topic dedicated exclusively to the Arena map. Here you can download the latest versions, and debate about future ones !


Latest version of the map:

This is the latest version of the ToH Arena Map. This is just a beta release and requires testing, many new features being added to the map. Your input will be apreciated.

Download ToH Arena Map - beta edition - version 1.2


Older versions of the map:

Download ToH Arena Map - Tournament Edition - version 1.1

If you are curious about what's new you can check it out in the .doc change log.
Download Change Log


Download ToH Arena Map - Tournament Edition - version 1.00

Download ToH Arena Map - Unlocked Edition - version 1.00
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Destro23
Destro23


Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
posted December 07, 2008 07:20 PM

In an attempted match vs Sinch this morning, we experienced a problem with blue player inferno.  I could not pass from the town/level zone to combat zone.  For whatever reason 1 way monolith wouldn't allow me to move

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Towerlord
Towerlord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted December 07, 2008 07:54 PM

I posted some days ago, about this bug, in report thread, and suggested that everyone should download new version . sorry for the bug ... pls download the latest version of the map from here , and it wont have it again.
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Destro23
Destro23


Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
posted December 07, 2008 08:59 PM

ahh I see, my opponent had sent me the map as the link wasn't working properly for me, thanks for the clear up

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Towerlord
Towerlord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted December 26, 2008 12:10 PM

Arena Map Change Log version 1.00 :

Spells:

Removed Curse of the Netherworld, Word of Light, Armageddon, as they were bringing several imbalances to the game.

Resources:

Dungeon

Removed all resources corresponding to light and dark spells, from the spell shop.

Academy

Added 5 wood/ore(to balance other changes)

Also a little touch to Haven and Academy money (3-4k gold).


Special buildings:

Academy

Removed +3 Knowledge building.

Academy, Sylvan, Haven, Inferno

Added Magic Spell Stone, where you can acquire a random lvl 1-3 Spell for the price of 2500 gold/ visit. The stone can be visited twice, spells are totally random, you can get spells that you already own.

The available spells are: Haste, Endurance, Cleansing, Righteous Might, Deflect Missile.

Heroes:

Removed Haggash from Orcs, and Ingvar from Dwarfs.

Troops:

Orc

+3 level 5 creatures
+50 level 1 creatures

Sylvan

-1 level 5 creatures

Haven

-1 level 5 creatures

Dungeon

-3 level 5 creatures
+5 level 2 creatures

Academy

+15 level 3 creatures
+5 level 4 creatures


Added mentors in the headquarters of each town, for improved hero building !
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Towerlord
Towerlord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted March 23, 2009 06:07 PM
Edited by Towerlord at 18:13, 23 Mar 2009.

After playing this map a lot, I have in mind some changes, hope they will improve balance and game play.

1. Recruitment ability, offers +15 lvl 1, + 10 lvl 2, + 5 lvl 3 creatures of current lineup, to simulate game behavior
2. Diplomacy - 1(maybe more) free random stack of 1/2 , 1/3 size of the "arena" stack size, for the same reason as above
3. Estates brings a quantity of gold to the tresury for the same reason
4. Other "arena useless abilities" simulation
5. Solution for a 2nd lvl 5 Light Magic Spell(maybe Divine Vengeance), since Ressurection always is not a too nice option
6. Possible reintroduction of Word, Curse and Armageddon, but must consider how to tweak them... Ideeas are welcome
7. Some tweaking of troops numbers... I have in mind lowering Sylvan Dragons stack to 7, instead of 8
8. Tweaking cost/spells for Spell Stones, and changing towns that get them
9. Also removing mentors for home areas, might happen, as it brings some strange stuff into gameplay

All this changes might make it to the next version.
Please post your ideas and wishes
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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 26, 2009 01:29 PM

I have few thoughts about it:

First of all i wouldnt remove metors from starting areas. Its fun to be able to do different combos as long as you pay for the changes and have limited amount of gold its perfectly fine to have them there.
Being able to choose what you want to spend your gold on is huge plus of this map(troops/level/artifacts/changing skills). Without 1 element you make this map poorer. (Those things seriously make this map far better than duel map from HC where you just buy all the troops all the time and buy all the best artifacts and you dont have to think much)

-Boost Dungeon a bit : maybe add them some troops , maybe add them some resources to be able to use dark magic or maybe add them a trading post to give them opportunity to use dark at higher cost. Anyway i think they are a little to weak in comparison to other castles

-Boost Orcs a bit i think they are a little bit underpowered too. There is a tricky thing with geting enlightenment. Presence of this one skill seriously increases their capability,but its so rare. I too often had a feeling that games were decided that one gt enlightenment and the other didnt (same with haven by the way)

- Rest of castles is fine by me in terms of their general power, Some may be a little to strong (like sylvan) but i think its more important to boost those 2 i was talking about

- I figured that this building where you buy spells dont give you dark magic. I think its wrong as it weakens dark magic users.

I will prbably come up with some more later

(and i finally got password for my account YEY!)

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Towerlord
Towerlord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted March 26, 2009 06:35 PM
Edited by Towerlord at 18:37, 26 Mar 2009.

Felunio, I don't plan to remove the mentor completely from the map ... just move it out of the headquarters, so you can use it only after you finished rest of the setup... But maybe I'll keep in headquarters still.

I agree about Dungeon, they need a little boost sometimes... but if you get good artifacts they are powerful(and they have double chance ). Still I am going to give them some resources for buying Light and Dark Spells probably.

Orcs, on the other hand are good to go the way they are in my opinion... they don't seem underpowered.

When I said tweaking the Spell Stones, I meant adding some spells, from all Magic schools, and decreasing cost to 1000-1500/spell, maybe increase the number of visits ?!

I appreciate your input, hope the other arena players will participate with ideas also.

PS: I will need some expert scripting help, hope some guru scripter hears my call
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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted March 26, 2009 06:48 PM

Probably inferno needs to be improved a little. Maybe 10 more imps and 1 more nightmare?
And necro downsized a little, 500+ level 1s a bit too much ?

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 26, 2009 07:46 PM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 19:46, 26 Mar 2009.

I played dozens of games vs and as orcs and i really think they are weak (without enlightenment) I dont want to argue or anything , just wanted to underline it, do whatever you want.

What i ment in first post is that Mentor should stay within starting area.

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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted March 26, 2009 07:49 PM
Edited by sq79 at 19:50, 26 Mar 2009.

Orcs destroy sylvan and academy in arena typically, but finds life hard against the rest. There's a nemesis for every race
Englightment is a sure huge bonus for sure

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 26, 2009 07:52 PM

Guess im outnumbered, fine then

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Towerlord
Towerlord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted March 26, 2009 08:05 PM

I wouldn't say destroys, about those match-ups. On the other hand, I would add Dungeon to their list of easy enemies, in current version(no dark). And they "destroy" Fortress, how could you forget that Sq

On the other hand, I find Academy to be pretty weak, unless they are unexpectedly lucky. This weakness is a little compensated by their unexpected factor, but still if artifact merchants are bad .....

They are very good only against Necropolis, and do okei against Dungeon and Inferno. All the other match-ups are hell for them... and I don't have a very good idea on what to do , to balance them.
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Zenithale
Zenithale


Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
posted March 26, 2009 09:06 PM

I have 3 wishes:

1) Decrease the hero level, creatures availables and gold
2) Remove the mentors
3) Remove the markets in all castles

Decrease the Hero level (start with a level 12 instead of 15) and the troops/gold (-1 week growth ; -30.000 gold) to increase the necessity to make choices between level/troops/artefacts. It's too easy to gain Retribution+Defense+Magic or Learning with Haven for exemple, a build without weak point and too common. Moreover there is always the "problem" with Learning: more the hero level is high and more we gain stats (+10 with level 20!)...and thus more we create unbalance when only one player got it.
Remove 1 or even the 2 Mentors to make the best/broken "builds" really harder to get. And above all STOP the changes of Intelligence/Graduate/Arcane Excellence/... with the mentor! The same is true with the market place, where we can sell the Knowledge artefacts: IMO we should destroy this market place in all castles.

-----

For info I almost finished a MOD to change the base creatures of each faction to make a 3th upgrade for each ones.
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Towerlord
Towerlord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted March 27, 2009 09:17 AM

Zenithale, the map has pretty good balance at the moment, and I want to follow a small steps policy, decreasing hero level(lvl 12 would be too low btw), troops and money would trow everything into chaos. There will be some troops decreasing though, but only locally, where there is imbalance.

Also I don't understand, why you don't want to be able to get a good build... Of course there are some builds that work nice most of the times, but there are also counters for them in my opinion.

In the end, I am curios about your MOD ... we'll certainly give it a try, along with Arena
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Tintagel
Tintagel

Tavern Dweller
posted March 27, 2009 01:15 PM

My few cents:


Inferno sucks far to much. I have won only once with inferno and that was against dwarves when they had all the bad runes and no haste and a bad hero to.  And even then it was close.

I like that the mentor is in the starting area, cause it makes it trickier to use some skills and then trade them away.

I dont like how the magic stones work, they cost to much for not enough gain. When you have no haste in guild and need to try the stones and waste 7500 gold for not getting anything that sucks pretty much.

Maybe add slow and haste for like 10k gold to buy in a hut. At least you have it for sure then.

Haven is in my opinion one of the best races in this setup getting 20 extra champions is pretty nice.
Could get a bit weakened in my opinion.


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Zenithale
Zenithale


Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
posted March 27, 2009 03:04 PM
Edited by Zenithale at 15:05, 27 Mar 2009.

Quote:
why you don't want to be able to get a good build

That's not what I said. IMO the bad thing is we don't really need to make choices during level-up: we have too many levels -and thus skills- to have all we need. I don't like this fact. Most of the battles are won/lost just because of the heroes skills, and even a good play from your opponent can't often change anything.

In fact that's often the same in the adventure fan-made maps, with too many stat/level/artefacts boosters, which create unbalance IMO.

Well, even if you don't wish modify this, what do you think about change/sell the Knowledge skills/artefacts in mentor/market?
IMO that's almost cheating.
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Towerlord
Towerlord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted March 27, 2009 06:47 PM

You are right some battles are won because of skills mainly, but who stops anyone from getting the good skills also...

The knowledge artifact selling/skill deleting, is somewhat unorthodox, but it is hard, or even impossible prohibiting it, unless we remove both mentor and market from the map. Also, knowledge is the worst stat in the game, everybody hates getting knowledge artifacts at the merchant, so maybe this little advantage is not so bad.
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phoenixreborn
phoenixreborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted March 27, 2009 06:53 PM

What is wrong with level 12?
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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted March 27, 2009 08:59 PM
Edited by sq79 at 21:00, 27 Mar 2009.

If its level 12 though it makes the game more predictable...
The leveling process is like a mind game, yes there's some imba matchups in the arena now, but if we make level 12 max, example, academy would become worst for sure, same for magic factions who depend on spellpower and skills to win the battle usually. Weaker heroes makes might faction to good imo. Sylvan, haven, dwarfs won't be affected much there, but dungeon, academy for sure will be severely weakened.

The knowledge topping up, then unlearning it, maybe can be stopped reducing the amount of money ?

Like Zenithale mentioned, it should not be because of imba built that settles a game, but if the built doesn't play a part, only the moves in the battle field, it becomes like a game of chess though.

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