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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted March 16, 2009 11:52 AM |
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I love Tolkien's style myself. The Hobit and the trilogy that followed it was Epic. The way he described the setting you could actually envision it in your mind. The mark of a true master of the craft (of writing) is if they can illicit that and/or emotions for the characters they create. Tolkien does that in spades. Yes it takes a lot of maturity to read, and there are parts that get long winded, but over all he is a master of writing.
While I enjoyed it, it is not my favorite however. The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant was better in my opinion, but it was a much darker setting. Both are lightyears better then the 'Harry Potter' books (Yes I have read the first 5). Suprisingly decent for 'kids' books, but it has a lot less ... character.
As for Tolkien..no he didn't invent Fantasy, nor did Gary Gygax. Even Asimov, who is credited for 'creating' sci-fi did no such thing. While each may have revolutionalized their perspective genre..fantasy has been around as long as mankind, and sci-fi a lot longer then people might imagine.
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Message received.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted March 16, 2009 12:37 PM |
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@William Xerox asked to be convinced. We're just trying to help.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted March 16, 2009 04:04 PM |
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Quote:
As for Tolkien..no he didn't invent Fantasy, nor did Gary Gygax.
Gygax just put a lot of mythical creatures in one place, and considering the huge success it had many people loved this idea. No he didn't create fantasy but he did inspire almost everyone thereafter; without him or Tolkien I doubt we would have today's fantasy games with spells, Elves, Orcs, Trolls, and all other mythical creatures.
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xerdux
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted March 16, 2009 05:44 PM |
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Lol this thread is basically done by me because I wanted to internet fight, spread out the Warcraft lore and debate 
But in LOTR you cant really understand what the bad guy wants. You cant support him in any way.
Sauron in LOTR is like: "Zomg me wantz power, me wantz everybody to die! Now I will kill everybody I see!!!!!!!! Haha look at me, im evil without any good reason!!!!"
I think that you should be able to understand the villian too and even support his cause etc.
You cant support Sauron in killing every single living beign in Middle-Earth. But in Warcraft (I had no other good example at the momemnt except my own book which just makes me fail more if I tell you about it ) you can understand the Legion to redo everything the Titans failed, and understand why the Titans annhiliate planets to avoid corrupption there spreading to other systesm.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted March 16, 2009 05:46 PM |
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Quote:
Sauron in LOTR is like: "Zomg me wantz power, me wantz everybody to die! Now I will kill everybody I see!!!!!!!! Haha look at me, im evil without any good reason!!!!"
No, Sauron is like: ...
you don't understand evil, because it wouldn't be evil, if you understood what they wanted to do. Sauron is a silent looming, faceless threat that the heroes have to face.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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xerdux
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted March 16, 2009 05:50 PM |
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???
Thats still lame and boring!
The Lich King is more interesting and he actually fights for good - but in a different way!
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted March 16, 2009 05:51 PM |
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Bah, of your willain is too interesting, then you don't want to see your protagonists, but your antagonists. LOTR is an protagonist story. WCIII is an antagonist story.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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xerdux
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted March 16, 2009 05:58 PM |
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Edited by xerdux at 18:00, 16 Mar 2009.
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Then both fail
A perfect book/game would have both interesting protangists and antangonists
It just seems to me that Sauron has no real goal except killing everybody he sees while the Lich King wants to unite Azeroth in undeath to challenge the Burning Legion.
Also in Warcraft nobody is super good all the time, which characters seems to be in LOTR most of the times.
In Warcraft there is a big political conflict between Thrall, Jaina, Varian and Garrosh (two of those are rather new characters).
Jaina is seen as an traitor by the rest of the Alliance. Thrall wants the best for his people while Garrosh thinks the Horde should return to the old ways and challenge the Alliance. Varian saw his family and kingdom die by the Horde and still sees them as savages.
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xerdux
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted March 16, 2009 06:01 PM |
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Edited by xerdux at 18:06, 16 Mar 2009.
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People fail to tell me why its so good.
So far I only had one reason.
1. The names are cool
If LOTR was released tomorrow it wouldnt have been such a hype and success.
And many others here think LOTR is rather lame too, so they are automatically 13-yr olds?
Also this was orginally in Wastelands, but they moved it because I want my post count lol.
bumb - this must be on da first page
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 16, 2009 07:07 PM |
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Quote:
Did I mention my book is entirely from the point of "bad guys" ?
When is it finished?  Do I need to buy it or will you give freebies to select elite HC members? 
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 16, 2009 07:22 PM |
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Well, don't forget it will be in Polish So unless it becomes a major success, so big to actually get translated, I'm afraid it won't be possible  My "translation" would suck balls, trust me
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Anakrom
Known Hero
(Scroll) Out of the blue
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posted March 16, 2009 07:29 PM |
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Quote:
People fail to tell me why its so good.
If you are interested, read it, you will see yourself. Otherwise there is no point in discussion. I like Tolkien, because I finished reading all his pieces and found them interesting. Seriously, there is nothing more childish than insulting a book you havenīt read yourself.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 16, 2009 07:49 PM |
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Bummer.
Besides I rather read in the original language anyways... damn those russian classics 
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 16, 2009 08:10 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 20:13, 16 Mar 2009.
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Quote:
People fail to tell me why its so good.
I did. Not my fault you can't read.
I mean, why would I bother repeating or re-quoting my post?
Warcraft sucks because it treats everything as being the same as "humans"... no wonder we have so ridiculous movies or novels around AIs that "act exactly like a human" which is completely ridiculous also. That's exactly why Tolkien or fantasy stuff have different "races" or "species" dammit. Because they are not human.
But in truth (in Tolkien at least) this was done as an allegory, analogy, to put into those "different" species exaggerations of human behavior, and it is the whole freaking point!!! Do you think Tolkien would have gone with so many races if they were all "just different cultures of humanity"? Seriously.
An ignorant reader (like you xerox) can't complain about non-human behavior because they don't "act like a human" or you can't "understand them". How can you, you're HUMAN!
How can you complain about what Sauron wants, even if it was true what you said (but it isn't though)? You can't think like him, you're human.... although if you dig deeper into this "allegory" you will discover a lot of other meanings... but I see you're completely ignorant anyway.
What's even more interesting is that even in real life, there ARE human behaviors that are "exaggerated"... sometimes we call them psychos, but even in the real world they exist, and they're still humans. Now imagine a different species representing a metaphor (it's not just a "random bunch of species", it's very well structured/systematically done in Tolkien's books -- that's the thing that makes it great, not just a mess of random species).
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted March 16, 2009 08:21 PM |
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My 2 cents.
Yea, Tolkien is over-rated. There are several modern authors who are better. But that's strictly a matter of opinion.
Tolkien is good, and he was instrumental in popularizing the genre, but he's far from being the best.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted March 16, 2009 08:22 PM |
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That's so Xerox... asking about opinions and then ignoring them 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 16, 2009 08:52 PM |
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Quote:
That's exactly why Tolkien or fantasy stuff have different "races" or "species" dammit. Because they are not human.
Because they are not human, we can justify them being unimaginative, boring, shallow, repetitive, all the same?
Lol.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted March 16, 2009 09:17 PM |
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Meh. Yes, he's overrated. No, he's not bad. It was a good story written by a good writer=good/average book.
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted March 16, 2009 09:27 PM |
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I was conceived because of LoTR. What's there not to love?
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted March 16, 2009 09:46 PM |
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Quote:
Because they are not human, we can justify them being unimaginative, boring, shallow, repetitive, all the same?
Lol.
For an average joe, yes that would definitely justify it. But that would only make it average -- Tolkien's world though is based more on a very subtle allegory/analogy.
And what do you call "unimaginative"? You know what I call unimaginative? In science fiction for example, Robots that act like humans, work like humans, laugh like humans, feel like humans, and do **** like humans. That's unimaginative. Just because you don't like them otherwise because they are boring (ask your computer if it is boring ) doesn't mean they are "unimaginative", on the contrary.
I mean why the hell do you even need different SPECIES if the difference between them is less than that or similar to that of REAL-LIFE HUMAN CULTURES? (ignoring the fact that said species actually represent something, and are not just a random soup thrown there for taste).
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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This thread is pages long: 
