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| Thread: A New Game? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 24, 2009 11:15 PM |
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Yeah, but it's not played from a first-person perspective, which is rather my point. A RTS based on HoMM I'm fine with, but I predict it being an epic failure if they try to make it a first-person RTS.
There are certain things that would have to go if we made it a RTS, things like separate combat screens, weekly growth, stacks, etc.
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted March 24, 2009 11:21 PM |
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I said the majority of games don't have that many it generally averages out to 3-4 because some have 1.
Age of X
Xcraft
Command and conquer
supcom
DOW X
____________
Protection From Everything.
dota
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 25, 2009 12:11 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 01:05, 25 Mar 2009.
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Okay, you go ahead and provide a few suggestions for a first person RTS of the HoMM series, because I personally don't think it can be done. Also, since you don't actually have workers (resources are acquired from structures rather like RA2 Oil Derricks, but which are captured more like ruins in AoE), and since you're only using minor resources occasionally (gold mostly, but wood and ore turn up regularly enough in buildinig costs, others are rare), I see no problems with having more resources than average for a RTS.
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Multivision
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 25, 2009 09:41 AM |
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Having a 1st person view doesn't prevent you from giving orders to your armies or other heroes. As apposed to just sitting in the back and blasting away enemies there's an actual chance to be killed depending on how you play, as well as advantages to gain. I just mean having more options to the battle and to the game. You can do the imagining yourself.
Another big difference is that you wouldn't have complete knowledge of all events as they occur, as in more realistic. Battles, terrain, opponents, neutral towns, even your own armies and heroes under your command have limits in terms of sight, knowledge and communication.
It's a bit sadistic I think of course, limiting the players to a more realistic view of the battle. Especially since we've been playing it from this strange demi-god viewpoint this whole time. But, it's still a much better way to play a strategy game.
As far as having RTS, we've seen Starcraft. It can be done. It's not that difficult to be way out in the back watching the battle and sending orders to your front line troops or your reserve or your artillery, etc. Again, the only difference is that it's from a heroes perspective.
So, if you're talking about how it can be done, well, I think it can.
I don't know how effective it has been in past games. But I'm talking about ideas here. So if your an expert on it you can speak up.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 25, 2009 10:28 PM |
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Well I was more talking about resources than armies, but since you bring it up...
The fact that you are supposed to be posing as the king/queen/overlord/etc. more-or-less requires you to have a birds-eye-view of the map, (you can't dawdle about in the south of your territory when a massive enemy army is coming from the north). Also, your heroes are on the front line anyway (whether because you make heroes requisite for an external force, or because they provide bonusses to your army), so there's no point in crippling yourself with 'realism' (which is not, in fact, realistic, since in reality about the only size of group a single hero could lead would be a raiding party).
I imagine a CoMM game would have territorial boundaries for kingdoms (centred around cities, rather like in RoN), and that while it would be permissable for independent stacks (yes there are still stacks, though their size is limited to say 100, so a hero may have several stacks of a particularly numerous creature, eg, 220 comes as 73-73-74) to patrol inside their own borders, to go beyond their own borders would require a hero or caravan (caravans would only be applicable to neutral territory), and a hero would provide additional bonuses.
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Multivision
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 26, 2009 04:47 AM |
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Matt, you're not following me here.
If you play H3 and you dawdle about in the south of the map and you don't bother to expand or remove any of the fog of war, chances are you're going to be attacked by a large army and lose.
This isn't any different from what I'm talking about. If you don't have any sort of spy network, any messengers, any intelligent way of giving and receiving information, then chances are you're going to lose. That's just a challenge in the game.
The big difference here is that if one player maintains these spy networks, messengers, and communication lines, he gets an advantage. Realistically, this means he spent more time doing this than building an army.
Basically, it means there's more ways to play the game.
I'm not one who finds entertainment in micromanaging resources frankly. So I have no opinion on that whatsoever.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 26, 2009 05:31 AM |
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At least with HoMM3 or a standard RTS it only takes a quick scroll to get to wherever an attack's coming from, with a first-person RTS it's probably going to be a lot more tedious, and given that this is a RTS, you're going to suffer more than you would, with a god-view.
Also, it's foolish to talk about 'realism' when so much of the game is inherently unrealistic (you shouldn't even be able to see a hero more than a day away from your nearest town).
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted March 26, 2009 07:37 PM |
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Quote:
Okay then, how many resources do you have to gather (I suspect only one or two)?
Only one type, although you can upgrade your extractors (which are placed on the scrap pool - kinda like a mine) with the builder.
Also the builder moves extremely slow, I guess that helps as well the 1st perspective 
____________
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Multivision
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 27, 2009 06:48 AM |
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Matt, that's exactly what I'm talking about though.
I'm not talking about making an RTS that has nothing to do with H3. I'm saying the complete opposite. I'm talking about making an interactive FP/RTS game styled HoMM.
What makes you think there's no Dimension Door? What makes you think there's no Town Portal? There's a haste spell, mind control, force field, earthquake, land mine, firewall, fireball, etc. Hell, you can even cast spells that give you bird's eye, view earth & air.
Again, all I'm talking about here is moving the pieces forward to make them more realistic. Now of course, I'm talking about a fantasy based world following a logical definition within those bounds.
Of course you won't find any heroes that can cast expert haste anywhere in this reality. But, that's what makes it a video game.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 27, 2009 06:55 AM |
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Multi-vision, we already have a first-person game in the universe, it's called Might and Magic, we don't need to ruin it by going and adding a mediocre-at-best first-person RTS. If we're going to make a RTS it 'has' to be from the traditional viewpoint, it'll get too complex otherwise (seven resources, multiple spellcasters, multiple cities, etc.).
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Multivision
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 27, 2009 07:16 AM |
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Matt, I haven't brought up M&M once. I've played that game. Don't like it. No offense to anyone who does. I think I've gone out of my way to list a significant amount of differences separating this idea from that game. If you just want to be pessimistic and skip over anything relevant to this thread, it may not be for you.
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LucJPatenaude
Disgraceful
Known Hero
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posted March 31, 2009 09:13 AM |
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As I sent a message through IM to Multivision, I felt that HoMM6 should be made around the notion that, the turns be automated to integrate the factor of simultaneous continuity both for Multiple player and Single player interfaces. Think of it as to get the players and fans alike, to get used to a semi-rts type of gameplay until HoMMVII shows its most refined-up interface of an RTS approach.
Just think. 10 to 15 minutes of gameplay for a Tiny or Small map instead of 1 to 2 hours. To me, it is awesome. Having the time to play 4 to 6 games in the same 2 hour period.
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Multivision
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 31, 2009 09:58 AM |
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I'm not exactly sure what you mean there LucJ. I should read your PM one sec.
Edit: Ah, my IM was turned off apologies.
Anyway, could you elaborate more on what you mean? I like the idea of having shorter games myself, but I think that should be determined mainly by map size and settings rather than the fact that RTS is in place.
Map sizes I think should stay proportioned so as to be big enough that reaching it's limit either way isn't easy. Bigger the map the more you can put in it I'd say.
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LucJPatenaude
Disgraceful
Known Hero
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posted April 08, 2009 05:58 PM |
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Real changes to bring into life for HoMM6.
What I meant is: Simultaneous turns that feels like the TBS mode has been transformed into a mere: "Okay, done with my orders of building and moving my armies on this turn and, lets start the next turn right-a-way" without having to wait for all the other players to do their turns. That, alone, on an Impossible map(XXXL), could save you up-to 5 whole minutes of interval time in between turns.
In the same time, will teach players not to leave the main capital without enough troops to both defend yourself against oncoming enemy players and, to reassure yourself victory against the neutrals of the mines/resources+artifact.
So, Logistics skill and Scouting ability become an almost prerequisite for this game. Knowing to acknowledge that, a battallion of troops is only one tenth of a brigade.
Battallion: 100 soldiers of one unit or, of all units within the same Hero's contingent's compliment of troops.
Brigade: 1,000 soldiers of one unit or, of all units within the same Hero's contingent's compliment of troops.
Invasion Army: A few to several brigades within the Champion Hero of that faction's will to conquer and dominate the territory it seeks to have, permanently.
Please note: In a Tiny/Small map, a mere one third of a Brigade of upto level 5 in quality units can, be, considered, an invasion capable contingent's compliment of troops + a level 5 to 10 Hero is quite a bonus for these, poor in numbers, units also.
Now, knowing all this, a single unit with lots of intiative and speed can, decimate the defending garrison in no time at all. Hint: Imperial Griffins(unlimited retaliation ability), Wind Dancers, Sprites, Blood Sisters(Non-Stop Strike and Return ability); these types are only the few ones I can think of right now that have: 14 to 15 in initiative and up-to 8 in speed(level 1 to 4 only).
Did I get your attention on how serious of a player, I might be?
Example: My last map played was at Impossible size and, when I finished it, had 3,525 soldiers in plain sight. 90 days/turns(3 months only)and, 4,776 points for a Storm Titan Rank. So, it also means that, I had a whole army by the end of month 2 of at least 2,000 soldiers. Four experienced Generals/Heroes in this order: Level 20, 12, 8, 8. All of their stats were severely boosted with all kinds of artifacts.
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