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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Artifact question
Thread: Artifact question
Zaloy
Zaloy

Tavern Dweller
posted December 29, 2001 07:33 PM
Edited By: Hexa on 28 Jan 2002

Artifact question

Say you get an artifact that increases archery skill, but you dont even have that skill...does it do anything?

Edit:  revived!@
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Coldfyrius
Coldfyrius


Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
posted December 30, 2001 04:01 AM

No.  Artifacts which boost secondary skills boost them as a percentage of the existing skill, not as a percentage of 100.  Same with things like Vidomina's specialty.  For example, if you have Expert Necromancy (30%) and you pick up the Vampire's Cowl (+10%), your new Necro percentage is 30+(30*10%), or 33%, not 40%.

So if you picked up a Bowstring of the Unicorn's Mane (+5% to Archery), and you lack the Archery skill (0%), your new aArchery skill is 0+(0*5%), or still 0.
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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted January 04, 2002 06:11 PM

I don't know about that one Coldfyrious.  Are you sure?
If so, then why is boots of polarity considered a relic?  Because it boosts your heroes expert resistance from 20% to 23% or to 35%?  There should be a way to figure something like that one out.  I'm not disputing your formulae for heroes' specialties, but as for artifacts boosting a skill I think it goes the other way.

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Tristan
Tristan


Promising
Known Hero
illegally insane
posted January 04, 2002 06:57 PM

I think that is because they increase magic resistance, not the skill, the archery artifacts increase your archery skill.
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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted January 04, 2002 07:39 PM

I don't think I made myself clear Tristan.  That the bow increases archery isn't disputed.  My argument is about the multiple that is applied.  Okay, you know that a skill specialty hero adds a 5% per level bonus to the appropriate skill.  We like to use level 20 for one of those heroes because 1, that is a level that is certainly attainable for a hero in a game.  2, that hero's particular specialty is going to be expert.  And 3, the skill is just doubled.  With me so far?  If not, take Crag Hack and his spec offense.  Expert offense gives your creatures a bonus of 30% in hand-to-hand situations.  Level 20 Crag Hack gives a 60% bonus to his creatures' hand-to-hand damage.  Why?  5% bonus per level times 20 levels equals 100% or double the skill.  Now with skill increasing artifacts there is still(at least on my part) some debate.  If you have expert archery your ranged do an additional 50% on their attacks.  Hair of the unicorn's mane gives an additional 10% to your archery.  I say it adds a flat 10%, which would make your ranged do an additional 60%.  Coldfyrious says that with the artifact the same hero would do 55%(10% of 50 is 5).  Which of us is right?  Does someone know?  By the way, I agree with him that a hero needs a skill to be able to apply a particular artifact's bonus to it.    

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jex
jex


Known Hero
posted January 05, 2002 12:46 AM

ack!

Gootch, use the enter key plz. That is a horrible mess you made there.

Um well skill artifacts......I have never bothered to test the archery/eagle eye artifacts to see if they boost your damange when you dont have archery/eagle eye.........the best one is 15% thats worthless, considering expert archery gives 50%. Also eagle eye is fairly lame.

But I do know that the boots of Polarity will resist spells for you when you dont have resistance. I have seen them do that lots, very helpful.

Personally I think if the red boots give you resistance when dont have resistance as a skill, then by the same logic the archery artifacts should do the same. The Nerco artifacts are prolly a special case.

To find out for sure a person would prolly haveta pull out a calculator and make a test map....too much work for an additional 5-30% with your archers for me

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zsa
zsa


Famous Hero
posted January 05, 2002 08:08 AM

Quote:

But I do know that the boots of Polarity will resist spells for you when you dont have resistance. I have seen them do that lots, very helpful.  


Yep Jex, I tried it like 3 times (6 months or so ago) and  the resistance artefacts work even without the skill. As for the others I can tell u that eagle eye and necromancy artefacts DO need the skill for them to do something.

As for archery I cannot say precisely; as I remember they do not help if u don't have the skill (I tested that out too but a while back too and I don't remember exactly).

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StormWarning
StormWarning


Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
posted January 05, 2002 08:19 PM

With the Bow and the like, I'm not certain. I think it increases the skill, but one of my friends said that it increases the damage of range creatures regardless of whether you have the skill or not (it treats it as base 100% with no archery, 110 with basic, 125 with advanced, and 150 with expert, so all three with expert would give 30% of 150% for a total of 195%). I'm not sure which is right.
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Nebuka
Nebuka


Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
posted January 07, 2002 02:51 AM

Archery artifacts doesn`t help hero who`s without archery skill...Useless if you don`t have all three.

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thunderknight
thunderknight


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 07, 2002 05:57 AM

My guess, too lazy to test

Well, my guess:

Archery artifacts: need archery skill (even the combo
"Bow of Sharpshooter" will only give you no range and obstacle penalty + projectile shoot but cannot boost your
archery damage.

Resistance artifacts: can increase creature resistance even you don't have resistance skill.

Necro artifact: need necro skill. But combo "Cloak of Undead
King" is an exception, you can get 30% of the dead enemy troops as skele even you don't have necro skill.

Anyway, just too lazy to check them out.
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Batvanio
Batvanio


Adventuring Hero
Archimage
posted January 09, 2002 10:32 AM

xxx$xx

I have tested these artifacts a long time ago.
Here are the results:

When it is written in the artifact help: X% over XXX Skill
then this means:
1. You must have the skill to use
2. The compute is (the skill %)*(X%artifact boost)=new% of skill boost

On the magic resistance artifacts it is written:
Boost the "magic resistance" not the "magic resistance skill". So they act independently boosting the skill even if you dont have it and on base 100.

Exceptions: with the combined artifacts.



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Tristan
Tristan


Promising
Known Hero
illegally insane
posted January 09, 2002 06:12 PM

Thank you Batvanio for saying clearly what I was trying to say in the first place.  <bows>

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Sorcerorkyle
Sorcerorkyle


Hired Hero
Sauron
posted January 09, 2002 07:09 PM

oh yeah, real frickin clear!

what the hell was all that SH*T!
5 times 10 to the fifth square root of 5 times pie = absolutely nothing

yep cleared it all up, about as clear as a blizzard!
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Fantusta
Fantusta


Known Hero
who wishes he was high
posted January 11, 2002 01:10 AM

Instead of complaining about not getting it, how bout saying what you don't get and maybe someone could help you.  I understand it fine, and I was actually wondering about the same thing.  Thanks, people-who-posted-the-solution!
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