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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted August 05, 2010 10:08 AM |
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1910
Known Hero
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posted August 05, 2010 10:24 AM |
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Just wondering what your definition of epic is, Carcity? 
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Carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
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posted August 05, 2010 10:47 AM |
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My definition of epic is that movie you'll always remember, the movie that lures out every feeling you have inside of you without you knowing it. The movie you'll tell your grandchildren about 60 years from now. That sorta movie.
Like Forrest Gump.
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Why can't you save anybody?
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1910
Known Hero
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posted August 05, 2010 05:39 PM |
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Edited by 1910 at 17:40, 05 Aug 2010.
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So people, in your opinion (of an epic movie), will never remember Shawshank Redemption or other movies like that because they are not "epic"? Lolwut?
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted August 05, 2010 05:51 PM |
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Quote:
Like Forrest Gump.
You ruined it with you example. 
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Living time backwards
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Carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
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posted August 05, 2010 06:29 PM |
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@19, no, I said that epic is a movie you're sure to remember, while everyone might not remember the shawshank.
@Ohsake, clearly, Forrest Gump is the greatest movie I've ever seen.
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Why can't you save anybody?
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1910
Known Hero
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posted August 05, 2010 06:36 PM |
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I really wouldn't be sure of that. 
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bloodlover
Hired Hero
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posted August 05, 2010 06:51 PM |
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If Forrest Gump is the greatest movie you have ever seen, you really need to see more movies. The movie is very good, I agree with that but there are better movies out there.
On another note, I started looking at the last season from The Sopranos. I love this show and the way that every character is unique and at the same time fits the stereotype of italian mafia.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 05, 2010 08:42 PM |
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I just watched princess and the frog, was nothing like I expected. Setting was New Orleans, the princess was black and there was a voodoo background lol! Had some utterly random parts that made me laugh, many unexpected scenes as well. Was fun, good to see old school animation back in the game.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted August 05, 2010 08:54 PM |
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Quote:
And the trouble with having a majority of idiots is that they have a detrimental effect on global culture. Non-idiots in the creative industries learn that catering to the idiots is a safer bet, and when idiots themselves attempt something creative, it's usually unappealing, derivative, fashioned from dry twigs and covered in a strange sticky fluid. I wouldn't trust them to make a hat out of newspaper, let alone design a game.
this is how I feel about majority opinions.
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Keksimaton
Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
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posted August 05, 2010 09:15 PM |
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Is a majority opinion an opinion about the majority or an opinion adopted by the percieved majority?
And about the word "epic". There is such a thing as epic poetry wich is poems with a narrative, A story in the form of a poem. For the sake of poetry the expression can get into plenty of extremes wich is propably where the adjective "epic" comes from. It's a bit obscured by overusage but its meaning is something around "heroic" or "impressive."
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Noone shall pass, but no one besides him shall pass.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted August 05, 2010 09:39 PM |
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Quote:
Is a majority opinion an opinion about the majority or an opinion adopted by the percieved majority?
The latter.
Oh, and here's another definition of epic: a story focussing on events, rather than emotions (which is lyrical) or dialogue (which is dramatical). Of course, a good book or movie should be in check with all three or do one thing so exceptionally well, it can be bad in one other thing.
EDIT: anyone else notice I can't keep my thoughts in line and that they go rampant after even one or two sentences.
Anyway
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@Dagoth
I personally consider The Shawshank Redemption a good movie, not the best, but the one, which deserves to be at the top. You can't say the majority is stupid just because of your opinion. If several hundred thousands people voted positively, then only this means something. The movies are made not only for you or me and if so many people said it is good, so it is really successful. It's the case of tastes.
I'm just interested, in your opinion, what film deserves to be at the first position more?
If this was solely done according to my opinion, then princess bride would be at the tope 
I don't think I have seen the greatest movie ever made, but I would be more supportive about Doctor Strangelove, Citizen Kane or Casablanca, Schindler's list, E.T. and even battle royale.
Now, that I have let my thoughts digest shawshank redemption a little, I have a problem. Now, see if you can discredit this one: is there conflict or drama in the shawshank redemption? Did you at one point think things might not work out for the protagonist? Because I think that at one point Morgan Freeman voices over (this happens at the point things were looking grim) and you hear something along the lines of: "had the raping gone on long enough, I don't think he would've made it"
and at this point, all suspense was ruined: I was assured. Like the good little lamb that I am, I could safely enjoy the movie because really bad things weren't going to happen. He would pull through in the end and now I knew. It tried to be very grim and threatening and depressing at the start, but after the first quarter of the movie, everyone is just the bestest buds with everyone, except of course the token villains. The movie, all in all, is very safe and I'll be damned if a safe movie is the bestest thing mankind has to offer through visual media.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 05, 2010 10:23 PM |
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I don't think I have seen the greatest movie ever made, but I would be more supportive about Doctor Strangelove, Citizen Kane or Casablanca, Schindler's list, E.T. and even battle royale.
HELL YEAH! 
While not one of the best movies of our time. It's definite must see.
E.T. god it's been ages from that one hasn't it?
Schindler's list and Citizen Kane are excellent movies and I believe citizen kane has been chosen to the best movie a lot of times. More than any other movie out there if I remember correctly.
Casablanca is pretty good too.
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Keksimaton
Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
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posted August 05, 2010 10:31 PM |
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Clearly Dagoth is raising the point that the fact of wether you liked movie or not, might be detached from the actual aestethical value of the work.
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Noone shall pass, but no one besides him shall pass.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted August 05, 2010 10:55 PM |
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A more correct word would be artistic: if we were only going by aesthetics, then avatar would have been the best movie of all time as of yet. I'm taking about genuine human drama. A story that has more to it than just being a framing device for nice explosions or a way to make the audience warm using cheap tricks. Actors that are fascinating to watch (since I've recently seen the merchant of venice, I'll just comment on how Al Pacino's performance just instantly upgraded the entir movie). Though, a movie isn't all about drama, a movie has angles, lighting, music, dialogue(which is separate from writing as tarantino is infamous for) (though, he can be top notch writer as he's shown in pulp fiction, which has an incredibly tight story structure and works within several acts) and, yes, aesthetics (is it pretty? why or why not and why do we care?).
Is it doing something new? Is it doing something exceptionally well? Is it being sincere? There are all these questions relating to the notion of quality and I don't think the shawshank redemption is the one movie that can provide the most interesting answers to them.
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Keksimaton
Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
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posted August 05, 2010 11:02 PM |
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I kind of assumed that "aestethical value" included all that since at least some schools of aestethics include literature and drama, but I guess you're the boss of what you want to call it.
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Noone shall pass, but no one besides him shall pass.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted August 05, 2010 11:07 PM |
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Oh, fine, we'll look at the online free dictionary (oxford dictionary is being snooty for some reason
aesthetic
1 plural but sing or plural in constr : a branch of philosophy dealing with the nature of beauty, art, and taste and with the creation and appreciation of beauty
2 : a particular theory or conception of beauty or art : a particular taste for or approach to what is pleasing to the senses and especially sight <modernist aesthetics> <staging new ballets which reflected the aesthetic of the new nation — Mary Clarke & Clement Crisp>
3 plural : a pleasing appearance or effect: beauty
Apparently I was digging at the third meaning...
Fine, the concept is vague enough for you to be right...
EDIT: I'm being such a farm animal. Forgive me.
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1910
Known Hero
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posted August 07, 2010 07:45 PM |
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Quote:
and at this point, all suspense was ruined: I was assured. Like the good little lamb that I am, I could safely enjoy the movie because really bad things weren't going to happen. He would pull through in the end and now I knew. It tried to be very grim and threatening and depressing at the start, but after the first quarter of the movie, everyone is just the bestest buds with everyone, except of course the token villains. The movie, all in all, is very safe and I'll be damned if a safe movie is the bestest thing mankind has to offer through visual media.
The movie is NOT a suspense movie. If you want suspense,. then you are watching the wrong kind of movie. It's, when it all boils down to it, a Crime Drama film. You're trying to put expectations on the movie that are not supposed to be made and in the end you're going to be disappointed because you're looking for the wrong things in that particular movie. It's not exactly a safe movie. Sure, they get out and all, but people did Die and that's not exactly good is it? One of the characters that you really like gets killed. How is that good? That happens after the first quarter. Yes, it does work out in the end, but most movies do work out in the end and that is a pretty poor criticism of the Shawshank Redemption, at least for disliking it (well not disliking but thinking that it isn't that good). Sure, it's your opinion and all but the reasons you are giving are mediocre at best. But yeah, each to their own.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted August 08, 2010 12:49 AM |
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Quote:
The movie is NOT a suspense movie. If you want suspense,. then you are watching the wrong kind of movie. It's, when it all boils down to it, a Crime Drama film.
I disagree with you, because I believe a film is first and foremost a dramatic medium. This means that there needs to be conflict. What is drama without suspense?
It plays our heart string well, I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm just saying it wants to placate the audience too much.
Quote:
It's not exactly a safe movie. Sure, they get out and all, but people did Die and that's not exactly good is it? One of the characters that you really like gets killed. How is that good? That happens after the first quarter.
Remember psycho? Protagonist dead in ten minutes. THAT, my friend, is bold. Now, let's look at three characters I can remember who died (don't bring up anyone else I don't remember, because they don't matter.)
What's-his-face: dies, ten minute sinto the movie. has no name, never given one and he dies to illustrate the grim dark setting this is going to be (this setting is destroyed at the start of the second act in a way I already described). This was bold.
Old man: his death has a long build-up and it has been alluded to at least once. his desperation has been made apparent and a lot of things have been done to invoke pity: this was a safe death, because it made the audience cry.
Young man: This death was necessary to show the bad guys were bad. If he didn't die, would the protagonist still be able to get out of prison? Answer: no, because the audience was somehow led to believe prison isn't so bad. See how schizophrenic that is? The director should work in propaganda, he'd make a fortune, if Kim Jong-Il had any money.
Oh, and of course, this was also done to dehumanise the villains, because, god forbid, we couldn't just let our protagonist rob them without making them complete monsters, that would make him a con artist (which he still is).
Same thing they did in the green mile, by the way: black-and-white imagery.
Where did the times go when the writer was expected to kill off all his characters by the third act? I'll tell you where it went: safety! we can't let the audience feel... SAD after a movie, can't we?
Oh, another movie to let on the list of greatest movies of all time: psycho (the original, because remakes are bad).
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 08, 2010 01:13 AM |
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I was actually wondering what's that movie. I thought I had never seen it but in fact, in France, it has a completely different name "Les évadés"
I liked it. now I understand why you compare it with the green line, they are both a nice change to the usual cliché of a prison.
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