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| Thread: TownSitting?? .... Do you?? ....Will You?? ..... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted September 18, 2009 12:54 PM |
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Ban hit and run - Ban dungeon
Ban town sitting - Ban Fortress
As well as things like mentored kamikazes etc .....
There's too much flaws in this tote version.
So the best way is to agree on the rules with opponent.
For example, Jinxer doesn't like to play a hit and run dungeon in genesis, but he made it so hopeless for dungeon that its virtually impossible to win there if they don't at least do 1 town seat.
In that case then just ban dungeon 
About the outplaying part, if you can't take enemy's town, it means you have not outplayed him yet 
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Clay_Man
Known Hero
TOH gamer
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posted September 18, 2009 12:57 PM |
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Showdown!
I think I'm not in the need to defend my honor, but anyway I'll introduce you the guy who was the townsitter: it was me.
I don't write this post to flame, provoke or anything else, just to clear some things out, and I prefer straight talk.
I play with a play-to-win attitude, that is, I use every technique what I can in a game, and in return I expect my opponent to do the same. This, however doesn't include imbalanced/broken aspects of the game or intentional cheating. These imbalanced factors are taken care in pre-game rules (I use only 3 no dv/wyngaal/mentored kamikazes). I do NOT consider any other tactic (like hnr, townsitting, whatever) cheesy/dishonorable/foul play. If my opponent, however wants to add some more rules it's perfectly ok. I never was an A$$ when it came down to these. I play whatever is fair and accepted by both players. You can ask several people whom I've given reloads while others just report, or I've conceeded long before final because I know I had 0 chance.
Ok, enough self-advertising.
As for what happened actually:
We played genesis 1.9, random, I've got necro, Jinxer got sylvan. Last time I played Genesis it was 1.4 and it was a pretty decent map. This 1.9 version, however, is not. The garrisons are hugely boosted, thus eliminitaing week 3-4 breaks. So, being necro I'm at a disadvantage at the beginning, since I can't really cope with week 5-6 sylvan army, and I can't break really early.
Still at week 5 day 4 I landed on opposing side after clearing out middle + visiting mentor. On day 5 I had to do a fight in order to learn confusion from my matriarchs, and on day 6 I summoned troops. Jinxer was meanwhile gathering his army in town. On his day 6 he teleported to his 2ndary castle, I did not really understood why. Logical moves would've been:
1. Block central teleporter so either +1 week's army or I have to fight him in open.
2. Sit in town, where I might actually have a slight advantage since necro does better if no melee is involved for a few turns.
On day 7 I took his undefended main castle, Jinxer had assumed that I don't have the movement to do so. But I had.
Next week I planned to sit on castle till end of week, then move near to the portal, on new week move through portal, summon troops, with the remaining movement back to portal, and I probably still have a few movement to TP to his main castle. I planned on this because map characteristics allowed to do so. I did not plan an eternal sitting, but I needed that extra army.
Anyway Jinxer attacked me at castle. He still had a very good chance, as I knew all his spells,arties and skills, but in final fight he made several wrong decisions which enabled me to stall him out.
Some may think I'm just the average noobie bashing TOH veteran, but with this post it was not my intention, I just wanted to share my view on this issue. I'll let all of you to judge this situation.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 18, 2009 01:13 PM |
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The murderer always returns to the crime scene  As expected the suspect appeared, happens every single time someone is not named. Even less unexpectedly there is no dishonour. That is what me and a few others tried to say but we were instantly misunderstood, it's not a binary choice.
Jinxer, remember when you asked me to fight you in town because you felt you stood no chance? What are you trying to prove?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted September 18, 2009 01:37 PM |
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Doesn't even qualify as town sitting imo or as the caveman would say....
Town sitting in own town forever bad, town sitting in opponents town good
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted September 18, 2009 01:57 PM |
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Edited by veco at 13:58, 18 Sep 2009.
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Of course I would sit in my own town. If you don't like it - go sit in yours.
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none of my business.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 18, 2009 01:58 PM |
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You grumpy old git 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 18, 2009 04:22 PM |
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I'm not in the ToH but I townsit when I am forced to by superior forces lurking outside the town. I'm sure I'm a bit more nubby than all of you are =p
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Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
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pei
Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
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posted September 18, 2009 04:59 PM |
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Ive never heard of an army that had gone out of castle to fight when the odds werent by the army´s side..seems stupid or genious if only u think like Leonidas.
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Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
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posted September 18, 2009 05:21 PM |
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I don't play on fan-map anymore since I'm almost only playing on ubi.com (versus 1, 2 or 3 stranger(s) (+ AI players) in the same time), with very short time limit (2-4 min), without auto-battle but with dynamic-battle.
(I like the eye-candies but really dislike the balance of the fan-maps (too many power-ups/artifacts/monsters/etc).)
In my last game I played Academy versus 1 Necropolis player and 1 Fortress player. During the 3th week the Necro player captured my Capitol then sitting in my town, waiting for my withdrawal. I have took my time to recruit a lot of squires in my second town (Haven), since he had a lot of skeleton archers, and get 2 more levels. Then I attacked and finally won the siege fight but I suffered a lot of casualties (but he left the game). During this time the Dwarf player had gathered a strong army, which crushed mine 2 straight times (very good starting ATB + huge moral and luck). Each time I surrender. I finally found a +6 Power artifact before surrender a 3th time.
He decided to attack me in my town and was completly slaugthered by my weak army, aid of my Fire traps and strong Phoenix. He wasn't ready to do this fight (only basic warmachine, no Earthquake spell, only several Thanes and no Destructive magic but Light magic).
In this kind of games I like do siege battles. During the fights you will learn the importance of spells (like Earthquake of course) and skills (like Warmachines, Tremors, Destructive magic even for a Demon lord...) that (I think) you almost never use on your ToH map (<-- for me that's unbalanced).
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My reference to TownSitting is talking about sitting in town for more then couple days with the intent to hide behind the walls and not planning on coming out in open to fight.
Ofcourse sitting in town for 1-2 turns to finish gathering your stuff is NOT considered Townsitting.
So you should edit your first post. In this conditions I never did that, my opponents too. Maybe I was lucky, or finally playing on ubi.com is not so bad.
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TWITCH|YouTube | NewArenas2023 MOD
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted September 18, 2009 07:44 PM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 23:54, 18 Sep 2009.
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If my opponent, however wants to add some more rules it's perfectly ok. I never was an A$$ when it came down to these. I play whatever is fair and accepted by both players.
Well was my fault then.. In over 200+ games have only had 2-3 games where opponent townsat.. so was my fault for assuming that the odds were that townsitting was one of them understoods that you just dont do it. So for assuming the character and integrity of my opponent, was of similar level as my other 200 opponents... that was my downfall. Bound to find a rare bad apple sooner or later.
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We played genesis 1.9, random, I've got necro, Jinxer got sylvan. Last time I played Genesis it was 1.4 and it was a pretty decent map. This 1.9 version, however, is not. The garrisons are hugely boosted, thus eliminitaing week 3-4 breaks. So, being necro I'm at a disadvantage at the beginning, since I can't really cope with week 5-6 sylvan army, and I can't break really early.
I disagree... yes the garrisons are a little stronger, since earlier verisons.. and it was done to better balance and slow down the silly fast Necro Rush. 1500 Hp Pheonix can take almost any garrions and with raise dead.. NO losses.. and NO other town can even come close to that. And it is TOTAL BS this arguement that Necro cannot fight week 6+!!! I have played 60+ games on Genesis.. and many many of them games as Necro.. and I play Necro Much Much different.. Whereas CLayman skipped half of his area, to break week4 ( which he claimed was not possible with this verison, but he did it) and attempted a rush.. then decided to waste time visiting mentor etc..and showed up at my town week 5.. so how exactly did these mega dwellings slow him down? Anyways.. back to Necros ability on Genesis.. I think I have ONLY lost 2 times with my necro team, and as I said, most of my finals are week 6+ I dont rush with them.. I build a Huge Solid army and they are MORE then balanced in later game.. So this crap that Necro HAS to rush to stand a chance is just silly.
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On his day 6 he teleported to his 2ndary castle, I did not really understood why.
I needed 2 more levels and had 2 trees in my area.. so was gonna hit them then come back for the final fight. Townsitting was NEVER a thought in my head. As I said.. 200+ games, and only 2-3 players have ever stooped to that level to beg for a win.. so thats why I left. I figured final battle was a mere day or 2 away.. town was no longer needed
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Next week I planned to sit on castle till end of week, then move near to the portal, on new week move through portal, summon troops, with the remaining movement back to portal, and I probably still have a few movement to TP to his main castle. I did not plan an eternal sitting, but I needed that extra army.
At beginning of post you claimed you was not worried about defending your honor... however, you must feel like your honor needs defending some.. since you are not being truthful with this last statement... I asked you if you planned on townsitting.. and you replied.. yes ofcourse.. and then you said.. that you would just sit there UNTIL I came to attack you, and if I did not.. then you would just outgrow me. Now I am sure that I could have drawn the game out for another 2-3 hours more running around getting stronger etc... but who wants to waste many more hours? Its disrepectful to the opponent IMO. So lets NOT hide what really happened.. If you are NOT ashamed of Townsitting.. then be honest and stand proud about it. 2-3 days townsitting is perfectly OK in my mind.. but when you say your townsitting indefinately.. thats just sad.
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Anyway Jinxer attacked me at castle. but in final fight he made several wrong decisions which enabled me to stall him out.
Sure I didnt even seriously try in final.. at that point I didnt care.. If I had really cared about game at that point, I woulda ran around map for next 5 hours draging it out getting stronger etc.. I know I shoulda Magic immunity my Arcanes and the rest of my army..then you woulda had to come out from behind your walls and fight me.. but to be honest.. I didnt even care if I won at that point.. You obviously needed and was desperate to win no matter what the cost.. so sounded like you needed the win much more then I did.. at that point I was done wasting time.. and didnt wanna spend the time to play the final serious.. You already sucked the fun and seriousness outta the game.
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I just wanted to share my view on this issue. I'll let all of you to judge this situation.
Well this thread was not designed to Judge Clayman.. or THIS situation.. its main purpose was to get feedback on Townsitting in GENERAL. As Diegis pointed out.. some silly aspects of game should not NEED to be mentioned at start of game.. and I never had to mention NO townsitting in 200+ games.. it was always just one of them basic understood things. But TRUST me.. any future games.. that will be first thing on my list of anti silly tactics rules.
I got the answers I was looking for... Kispagat among others summed it up nicely.. They just wont play players again if they town sit.
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So you should edit your first post. In this conditions I never did that, my opponents too. --Zenithale--
I see your point.. I tried to edit the post to reword it better and it wont let me after poll has started.. So the poll results are tainted and not accurate. Many players have told me that they would townsit for a day or 2.. BUT NEVER indefinately. So Just have to disregard the poll results and go with what the opinions in posts.
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted September 18, 2009 09:20 PM |
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I don't think Clayman did anything wrong here, as his actions cannot be qualified as town sitting imo.
He made a strategical move, trying to make the most of his new conquered lands... Even if you would set a rule about town sitting before game, I think he would still be entitled to defend his newly conquered town from within his walls, because this is more of an strategic offensive action, rather than a defensive one.
I think it is nonsense, to ask someone to leave the town he conquered, which brings him many advantages, like income and troops, just so that you can kill him in open field... I mean, he made an effort to get there, if he isn't repaid in any way for that effort(money/troops), then it's pointless capturing opponent's town.
Just imagine a hilarious situation, where you try to surprise your opponents town undefended on a one town map, take it, and then hold it for 7 days, in order to defeat him, and he asks you to leave town and face him in open field because you are not allowed(it's not honorable) to town sit lol ...
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted September 18, 2009 09:52 PM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 23:44, 18 Sep 2009.
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Well its apparent that some players are ok with such a tactic.. and most others hate it.. I just have to make sure I am more careful in future games to weed out the bad seeds.. 
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted September 19, 2009 12:02 AM |
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An excellent conclussion.
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none of my business.
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted September 19, 2009 12:06 AM |
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For me its not townsitting if u stay in a town what you have conquered.
And surely nothing disonorable in this particular case, rather I think it was a suicide strategy. If you just camp in front of that town with your main, so you have less income but only your army grows, since reinforcement for him is impossible.
Presumption that Clayman did not have herald of death.
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted September 19, 2009 01:03 AM |
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Just wait for the next Heroes installment Jinxer, like you always do
Of course that one will be flawed too.
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted September 19, 2009 06:06 AM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 06:21, 19 Sep 2009.
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Quote:
For me its not townsitting if u stay in a town what you have conquered.
haha... Townsitting is Townsitting.. the principle is the exact same.. lmao.. you hide behind the walls cause you were unable to prepare your army in such a way that you can fight face to face with your opponent.. Doesnt matter whose town it is.. you are still sitting in town.. which by its own definition = Townsitting
I think Kisp didnt wanna be associated with agreeing with Jinxer.. so he is trying to put a spin on his previous opinion to try and distance himself from agreeing with the idea that Townsitting is silly.
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If you just camp in front of that town with your main, so you have less income but only your army grows, since reinforcement for him is impossible.
Maybe I am wrong in my thinking here.. but with him getting my full army every week, and all that extra money.. he could just send scouts with my army and hit and run me while I sit there. And regardless of that.. WHO wants to waste another buncha hours sitting there passing turn.. just so someone can get there desperate win..
Thats why I just said. Fudge it.. and went in for the suicide mission, so I could give the win to him.
Bottom line he only won because I made a Fatal Assumption.. I Assumed he was not the type of player to resort to those cheesy tactics. And I "Let" him have my town. So in reality.. did he Beat me? NO... I beat myself, but assuming the character level of opponent. I really dont care about the loss, its all the wasted hours just to have Opponent run up a tree like a racoon and hide and wait it out till the prey gets bored and gives up.. I just dont understand where the thrill is in having wins handed over to you? Guess a wins a win ehh?
And yes there was probably 100 things I could have done to outlast, maybe even steal the win back.. but didnt want to spend another several hours of game time jerking around wasting time. It isnt the first time I donated points to a good cause.. and sure it wont be the last.. But atleast someone will beable to sleep well at night now, with the calming peaceful knowledge that they have a win and a few points.
Live and Learn...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 19, 2009 08:50 AM |
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Quote:
So in reality.. did he Beat me? NO... I beat myself
Whatever makes you sleep at night As much as you could have played better so could he so no sense in thinking what could and might have been.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted September 19, 2009 09:07 AM |
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Edited by Elit at 09:10, 19 Sep 2009.
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Jinxer: Stop be so emotional from every your game loss.
About pool. You don't have clear question and your answers sounds to me like: A (yes i will be smart and use tactical advantages), B (no i prefer to be fool and give opponent free won).
I have many games in ToH where my opponent or me stay in town and most from games attacker won his battles. So town sit is part from game.
About your game:
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On his day 6 he teleported to his 2ndary castle, I did not really understood why.
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I needed 2 more levels and had 2 trees in my area.. so was gonna hit them then come back for the final fight. Townsitting was NEVER a thought in my head. As I said.. 200+ games, and only 2-3 players have ever stooped to that level to beg for a win.. so thats why I left. I figured final battle was a mere day or 2 away.. town was no longer needed
Its clear tactical decision from you to give him your town so you can won time to up 2 lvls. So you both trade 1 advantage vs other advantage. Its called "strategy". Now tell me why Clay_Man need to drop his advantage when you get already 2 lvl up? This will be very silly from him. If you cant beat him in your main town this mean you made BAD strategy decision and he 100% deserve his won.
Don't expect people to give you free won only because you want to won game...your opponent want to won too. If you spend 5-10h for play he spend same time so he have same right to want his won.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted September 19, 2009 09:10 AM |
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Some towns are best suited for 'town sitting'. It is near impossible to oust Fortress in their own town (unless you catch them out somewhere when you attack the town). What I don't understand is this. A person can 'choke' the town sitter to death. Send a secondary to flag all the mines, etc..and of course chain their army. That means you grow as much as they do, and you can afford it better then the town sitter.
You have all the extra creature generators (if any), and eventually you will be able to overwhelm them. So patience will pay off in the long run. If you can not/will not have the patience..that is not the enemies fault, but yours. Now mind you, it is a bit 'cheap', but it is a strategy. A loosing one if the enemy has a LOT of patience, but a strategy none the less.
Simply ask for the rule 'no town sitting', and the issue will be resolved. In this case, I see no wrong doing. Don't assume anything, as they say it makes a *** out of u and me.
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Message received.
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted September 19, 2009 09:31 AM |
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Edited by Kispagat at 09:32, 19 Sep 2009.
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I would gladly agree with you, but cant.
Its impossible to overgrow if you sit in enemy town.
To try hit and run with secondaries on your secondaries or main is maybe an option, but I think necro cant do it against sylvan. Furthermore if you prepare some heroes to chain, and you can fight always with your full army, I guess most battles between secondaries are just slaughters.
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