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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted October 14, 2009 04:36 PM |
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Quote:
Very interesting ideas, although too complex and complicate for me. For me, the whole magic system should be revamped before starting on specialties. Mostly because nobody plays with magic heros nowadays.
Seems you are going to have a lot of work
Oh yes, indeed
Well, really basically updating the magic system should just mean to update the sptraits.txt. But as already mentioned, i prefere a system where special and significant bonus may be applied, but first you have to earn it. And the real big things won't be easy to gain
Quote:
With your last comment about creating special ground, you hit one of my ideas (I used it in Alexander map, where 52 big battles occur). When a battle occurs, a dead corpse (skeleton) will appear on the square after battle, with the message (here lay the corpse of x, defeated by y). Like in Disciples games. Not big deal for the standard player, but fun nevertheless.
I thought of something similar, too. But the corpse is not just a decorative object. So number of corpses is limited to 32 (as far as i know). So i had the idea after visiting a corpse it should vanish, so you get the option to create more. And moreover visiting a corpse with a hero having necromancy adds some skeletons before corpse vanishing (animated the corpse).
Generally i plan to disable many of the extra boni to any hero havong necromancy, and instead give totally different boni, mostly adding skeletons, skeletons and skeletons. And for some necro creature specialists add these speciality creatures.
But the patch placement will be similar for necros. I think a necromancer may gain ability to create evil fog, and a death knight the ability to create cursed ground.
I need the proper patch subtype for the smalles patch, or better all subtypes. i could imagine placing larger patches for heroes with higher levels.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted October 14, 2009 08:37 PM |
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next extended class: The pyromancer.
This is based on the heretic class and needs fire magic and sorcery and must not have other magic school. Then damage from fire spells is significantly increased. As above may be greatly modified (positive and negative) by several artifacts.
I simply used the MR trigger here. This is normally used to calculate and set magic resistance reducing damage. I simply use it invers, increasing the damage
Now let's see how this is like. I'm going to test now.
Edit: Test successful:
You remember Ash? In the bios it says that Ash just burned a complete village to ash with her fireball. Ever wondered how she did that? No more. Now when she gets fire magic plus sorcery the damage by magic arrow, fireball, inferno and armaggedon increases fast. In the beginning she dealt an extra damage of 2-5. Now that her skills increased, she dealt some real damage. And this can even be increased further by some artifacts (or may be decreased or inhibited by other artifacts).
Well, this is Ash as she should be. Currently (in this pic) level 11 with advanced fire magic + basic sorcery. Just imagine expert fire magic and expert sorcery
P.S.: I'd like to increase effect of fire wall and fire shield as well. Does anybody know the "spell number" for them? The spell number i get in the !?MR trigger. Is it the same as the number when casting the spell?
And idea: After some level (or maybe with other prerequisites) when casting berserk also casts frenzy. Would be a nice addition.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 15, 2009 10:32 AM |
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Good job Aren't the spell numbers same as in the spell list?
Ah, we need the code please, otherwise no proof!
Frenzy is a penalty spell in most cases and must be used with care. Or you mean casting frenzy on enemy units? That would be deadly uber unbalanced
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Era II mods and utilities
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted October 15, 2009 10:56 AM |
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Quote:
Good job
Thanks
Quote:
Aren't the spell numbers same as in the spell list?
Ah, we need the code please, otherwise no proof!
Well, it seems i simply have to try. It's just inserting debug messages. Not difficult, just time consuming
Quote:
Frenzy is a penalty spell in most cases and must be used with care. Or you mean casting frenzy on enemy units? That would be deadly uber unbalanced
Well, normally you'd cast berserk on enemies, won't you? And then automatically apply frency as well wohld mean apply frency to exactly these stacks.
And yes, that would be "unbalanced". That may become the one most deadly spell ever
O.k., basically i still think this is a very good idea. But as always this option will need prerequisites. So this will be not that easy to earn. And for balancing there will be other boosts for other heroes, too.
But maybe not cast it always, but have a chance to? Depending on level of some skills? F.ex. a chance of minimal (Sorcery*Firemagic)% and up to a chance of (Sorcery*Firemagic*Luck)%? So chance would be minimal 9% and maximal 27%. My be doubled for sorcery or fire magic specialists. Or for specialists for exactly this spell.
But yea, getting those berserked frenzied too will be a shocking feature And fits well to heretics.
Well, the technical question is: Is the !?MR trigger called on berserk, too? Have to try. The problem is: The editor is crashing. So i can't just set up a test map. I need an existing one, and then it takes time to get a hero to a level where he gains that feature. This takes time.
The next step would be some boost for the dungeon magic heroes. Their speciality should be earth magic. But what is the speciality of earth magic? I think, protection. Mostly. What can be done here? Hmmm, first it would be possible to apply the heroes speciality spell in round 1, as for clerics. And then increase damage for magic arrow and for implosion as for heretics. Hmmm, this way implosion might wipe out giant stacks Other ideas?
Could you do a very small test map with a heretic (preferably Zydar) and 2 witch huts, one giving fire magic, the other giving sorcery, then some magig shrines for the relevant spells, and then a not too big stack to test? And a similar map (or maybe same map but the option for player to choose which side) with some dungeon spell specialist, 2 witch huts giving earth magic and sorcery, and some shrines with the appropriate spells, and a test stack? Would make development easier.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 15, 2009 11:03 AM |
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Quote:
Well, normally you'd cast berserk on enemies, won't you? And then automatically apply frency as well wohld mean apply frency to exactly these stacks.
And yes, that would be "unbalanced". That may become the one most deadly spell ever
Yes, and praying that the guy does not hold the badge of courage (pretty common artefact) so your berserk fails but not your frenzy. Then you are dead meat...
Quote:
Could you.... ? Would make development easier.
Siegfried, I would be more than happy to help and make it faster, but I am using all my free time for my new map in work...only if day could have double time.  We need more people capable of scripting!
Preview of the plot, nine planets to explore for the SG1 team (under and surface minimaps):
 
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Era II mods and utilities
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted October 15, 2009 11:14 AM |
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BTW, just for info, the current calculation for the pyromancer:
If has necromancy, nothing (just normal strength)
Else: initial damage * (fire magic +1) * (sorcery + 1)
This is the new base value. So the damage may be up to 16 times higher. Hmm, perhaps too much?
Next, the spells:
Magic arrow: initial damage * (fire magic +1) * (sorcery + 1)
Fireball: (initial damage + hero level) * (fire magic +1) * (sorcery + 1)
Inferno: As fireball
Currently only these 3 spells gain that boost.
Next, artifact checking. As for clerics, equipping any necro artifact nullifies the boost. Angelic alliance nullifies it too. Other artifacts modify this new damage:
Sword of hellfire: *2
Helm of chaos: +hero level
Hellstorm helmet: *2
Sandals of the saint: /3
Celestial necklace of bliss: /3
sword of judgement: /6
Helm of heavenly enlightment: /8
Red dragonflame tongue: *2
Orb of fire: *2
So let's try an extreme calculation. Assume an initial damage of 100. That may result in a boosted damage of 1600. Now apply sword of hellfire, hellstorm helmet and orb of fire. That gives then a total damage of 1600*2*2*2=12800. Now assume fireball applied to up to 7 stacks at a time. I think that makes a heretic magic specialist a real competitor to any might hero, even with my boosts of attack and defense
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted October 15, 2009 11:20 AM |
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Quote:
Yes, and praying that the guy does not hold the badge of courage (pretty common artefact) so your berserk fails but not your frenzy. Then you are dead meat...
No risk no fun
BTW: Something similar is true for the orb of inhibition. If a hero mainly depends on his magic power and the enemy has it you're doomed, too. But these things make it interesting.
Quote:
Siegfried, I would be more than happy to help and make it faster, but I am using all my free time for my new map in work...only if day could have double time. We need more people capable of scripting!
No problem. I can use existing maps. It just takes longer.
Quote:
Preview of the plot, nine planets to explore for the SG1 team (under and surface minimaps):
Interesting.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted October 15, 2009 11:33 AM |
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An idea for demoniac boost: If demoniac has fire magic + offense, then:
if he has not tactics, decrease minimum damage by 50%.
Then increase maximum damage to ((fire magic * offense)*100)%.
Apply this in round 1. Round 0 if i find how to do that.
Edit: More tests. But first another pic:
That is quite much, isn't it? But i also found an AI enemy hero casting magic arrow an causing over 1000 damage. So this works for AI heroes as well.
Now what i found:
1. When it's AIs turn then !?MR0 occures many times. It seems as if AI is considering spells. Each single considering triggers this. AI considering Armaggedon results in 1 trigger for each battlefield hex. It seems it does not hurt (although i have to check that), but it costs time.
2. When casting firewall indeed a stack walking through the wall triggers !?MR0. But again it triggers several times. It seems it is triggered first for any possible hex where the stack may go, then it triggers again when it really walks.
I'm currently unsure what this means for damage calculation and will have to check that. Calculation has to be done only once, not several times. But since i read the initial damage with !!MR ... i think even if recalculated the result is the same.
BTW: AI seems to first (for any move) consider magic arrow. Always.
Edit: Strange! I'm using !!MR:N?y-1; to check the stacks number to find which hero casted the spell. The result should be between 0 and 41. But what i get are enormous numbers. Some tenthousands. This way it is not possible to reliably check which side casted.
Edit: I found a way around it:
!?BG0; Before any action
!!BG:Q?v9; Atacking side (0=left)
!!FU:E;
Strange that this is necessary. But it works.
Another strange thing i saw: When the fireball hits more than 1 stack the message in the message scroll below seems to be wrong. It shows only the basic damage, unmodified. But it seems that the damage is nevertheless applied correctly. Well, at least Olema with expert fire magic and expert sorcery killed about 20 Champions with 1 fireball
I just testplayed the RoE campaign, part 2, "Dungeons and Devils". Here in the 3rd scenario you have General Kendal with quite some forces. I managed to get him down with a hit and run technic with 2 heroes. One was Gunnar with his expert logistics plus expert offense plus expert tactics. When taking a long way to steadwick he gained much AT. I just had to attack. Defending was no good, the enemy won easily against him. The other hero was Olema. I just filled all 7 slots with single creatures. Since she had ballistics, she had the first spell. Fireball into the largest group, then run. Next day again. Some days and General Kendal lost.
So it seems that here might as well as magic heroes can be useful. And this concludes that the idea of levelling out ballistics when defending a town is necessary. Otherwise it would be difficult if not impossible to counter such a combo as Olema had here. At least there should be a chance.
BTW: I reduced the calculation significantly. It was too much, i think. Now the basic modifier is fire magic + sorcery, which gives a maximum of 6. So the base damage is then 6 times higher than normal. Artifact modifiert still apply.
Edit: I've setup a web page at http://www.rorkvell.de/h3/ (if you don't have your browser set up to prefere english, you may try http://www.rorkvell.de/h3/index.html.en
Currently i'm working on the beastmaster extensions, so these are the only ones there for now. Will be completed over time.
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted October 17, 2009 12:50 PM |
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Wow your work is absolutely fantastic!
That is exactly what we need in Heroes!
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted October 17, 2009 02:24 PM |
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Quote:
Wow your work is absolutely fantastic!
That is exactly what we need in Heroes!
I hope so At least that is what i ever wanted from HoMM.
I need ideas for other boosts. Many ideas. The first versions should require 2 Skills and maybe the absense of other skills. Except the Archmage 8code already done, but currently not included): That needs exactly 8 skills, all magic.
For now i need ideas for beastmasters, witches, barbarians and battle mages. the current attack and defense modifiers will be applied in a similar way to all might classes. The beastmaster gets most boost as defender, the barbarian most boost as attacker. The other might classes will get a boost somewhere inbetween. And other might classes will have 1 magic school allowed (which one depends on faction), and all factions get different artifacts to inhibit, decrease or boost it.
For attacker i have now included terrain correction. Correction adjusted for pathfinding skill.
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted October 17, 2009 02:45 PM |
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I have an idea for the Barbarian class. (it is not my idea, i read it from the Sagamosa's Page. ((http://www.wog.euweb.cz/barbarian.htm)). )
So, for barbarian class, use the
Offence
and Armourer.
From the page:
Quote:
You learn your first battle skills as the young barbarians usually do - in the raids on the farmer villages. You soon discover that numbers matter and single fighter, strong or not, cannot stand long. Hero having this skill has the basic battle stats of each stack modified depending on the number of units in the stack. The increase is calculated in the following way:
UNITS in STACK ATT DEF
1 - 100 +2 +2
101 - 500 +4 +4
501 - 1000 +6 +6
1001 - 2000 +8 +8
2001 - 5000 +10 +10
5001 - 10000 +12 +12
For you:
When Basic Offence and Basic Armourer, they are like this:
UNITS in STACK ATT DEF
1 - 100 +2 +2
101 - 500 +3 +3
501 - 1000 +5 +5
1001 - 2000 +8 +8
2001 - 5000 +10 +10
5001 - 10000 +13 +13
When Advansed Offence and Advansed Armourer, they are like this:
UNITS in STACK ATT DEF
1 - 100 +3 +3
101 - 500 +4 +4
501 - 1000 +6 +6
1001 - 2000 +10 +10
2001 - 5000 +12 +12
5001 - 10000 +15 +15
When Expert Offence and Expert Armourer, they are like this:
UNITS in STACK ATT DEF
1 - 100 +5 +5
101 - 500 +7 +7
501 - 1000 +12 +12
1001 - 2000 +15 +15
2001 - 5000 +20 +20
5001 - 10000 +25 +25
I say, that it is veeery looong to do that, and I don't even know if it's possible  , but I think it's a good idea..
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 17, 2009 03:16 PM |
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted October 17, 2009 04:12 PM |
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Thanks both.
Well, that would indeed be scriptable. It's just an adjustment to be made in round 0. There is just the problem that i have not found exactly what inhibits gameplay continuing when using !?BA0 and v997=0. But i think there is a way.
Hmmm, really nice idea. I just don't know if exactly this combination is ideal. And i would need something similar for beastmasters. Hmmm, maybe use offense plus some rarely used skill for increasing attack (or maximum damage) and armorer plus some other rarely used skill for defense? But using number of creatures is indeed an interesting idea.
BTW: What is QP?
Sorry for not knowing, but i'm rather new to the forum.
Edit: I think i'll do that different for shooters and non-shooters, but somewhat similar (although not identical) for all factions. For shooters i think i'll increase either AT or maximum damage based on archery and eagle eye.
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted October 17, 2009 04:39 PM |
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Quote:
What are red stars, rank prefixes and quality points?
Each member stars with 0 quality points. To gain a quality point, a moderator needs to rate one of member's posts as being a quality post. Moderators can also give you a quality penalty if you make a post that breaches the code of conduct.
Quality is a relative term, so there's no set definition. Moderators will give quality points upon their judgement of quality. Bad quality is defined by breaching the code of conduct outlined above. Sometimes quality points are also given for other forms of contribution to HC.
Quality point amounts correspond to the amount of red stars a member has. 0 quality points corresponds to two red stars. Red stars therefore can be gained or lost by gaining or losing quality points.
Each amount of red stars, except two, corresponds to a rank prefix, which will look like: Promising Adventuring Hero, for example.
Loss of red stars puts member into an imminent danger of being banned from the community. Negative amounts of quality points increase the floodprotect exponentially, so the more penalties you've got, the longer you will have to wait before you can make your next post. If you have only one red star left, you will be unable to modify your signature or custom status. If you have no red stars left, you will be banned.
Gaining red stars has its own benefits. Having four red stars will set you free of floodprotect. Having five red stars will enable you to rate threads.
Red stars are not a basis for discrimination, it's a feature implemented in order to shift the focus away from gaining stars through quantity of posts to gaining stars through quality of posts.
If you want to get some quality points, find a member that has lots of red stars, click his avatar, find the posts where he gained his quality points and understand what they have in common.
If you think a particular post deserves a quality bonus or penalty, contact the moderator of the forum in which it is posted. Do not nominate your own posts though, as such proposals are biased
Btw, thank you. I also think it is a good idea .
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted October 17, 2009 05:20 PM |
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Ah, i see
@Salamandre: I'm currently experimenting with that !?BR&v997=0 thingi. At least i found something. If the battle has a tactics phase then it works just as expected. The black screen only occures when there is no tactics phase (don't know why). And the black screen seems to be related to some receiver. I've set up a function just doing nothing:
!?BR&v997=0;
!!FU:E;
And then there is no black screen, regardless of tactics or no tactics. So it seems not everything works during round 0. I have to find what.
Edit:
@Gnollking: I have thought that over. The idea is still goof, but it conflicts partially with the idea of movement based AT+/DF+. So i will change some things.
First, i will limit the movement based boost. An attacker will not only need tactics and offense as prerequisites, his offense must also be greater than his armorer skill. And the defender similar: He will not only need tactics plus armorer, his armorer skill will also have to be greater than his offense skill. An exception are armorer resp. offense specialists.
So now it will really be more a specialisation. You can still have both, armorer and offense, but you will have to specialise in defense or attack. For armorer and offense specialists the specialisation is then obvious.
As you can easily see, there will be a point when (if a hero has both) offense and armorer have the same level. At least when thei are both at maximum. Now if ever these both skills are equal, then i'll apply that numbers based boost, the bonus itself beeing relative to the heroes class. Barbarians and Inferno will get a boost in the maximum damage, fortress will get a boost in defense and maybe hitpoints, others mostly AT and/or DF. And that numbers based bonus will not need tactics, although it may help.
So this way we already have 3 different development paths. First there is the attacker with tactics and offense and a movement based bonus to AT, only when attacking. Then there is the defender with tactics and armorer with a movement based bonus on DF only when defending. Extra DF when defending a town, and more extra DF when defending a town of his own alignment. And third we have a movement independent bonus, depending on numbers, which will need equal values of armorer and offense (or armorer and defense, but no tactics), which will apply on attacking as well as on defending.
I've changed the numbers steps so that they are equal to the experience points needed by a hero to level up, divided by 10. And, important, there is no bonus for stacks below 100.
And while thinking about this, another idea popped up: Let's assume a hero having learning and eagle eye. Then, depending on alignment, each stack gains more throughout the battle, starting with no bonus. So let's assume a barbarian with these 2 skills. Then each attack of any stack increases its speed and maximum damage by 1. Or fortress: Each own stack beeing attacked makes that stack learn something from it and lets it gain some DF (+2?).
BTW: Necros will be mostly excepted from these (but numbers based bonus may apply). Necros will mostly reduce enemies stats and boosts. So, if possible, any of these boosts will have a counter-boost which will do the inverse to the opponent. One of the prerequisites will be necromancy, the other one i'll still have to find.
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Timrod
Tavern Dweller
Class: Dwarven Ranger
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posted October 18, 2009 12:07 PM |
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Very interesting thread indeed.
I would suggest, that the Rangers/Druids would have something to do with Magic Resistance and Luck.
(because I love dwarves, if they would have more resistance, they would be undefeatable by magic heroes)
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Trying To Learn ERM..
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted October 18, 2009 01:00 PM |
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Quote:
Very interesting thread indeed.
I would suggest, that the Rangers/Druids would have something to do with Magic Resistance and Luck.
(because I love dwarves, if they would have more resistance, they would be undefeatable by magic heroes)
That is indeed what i thought of. Basically i'm still searching of kind of "faction specialities". And indeed i think rampart speciality is resistance and luck. But that's mainly for rangers, not for druids. Maybe focus for druids may be water magic and luck?
Or another idea: Besides Resistance + Luck for Rangers, add bonus based on hero speciality and luck? So more individual than other factions?
Regarding resistance, i thought of implementing something Salamandre came up with: If a hero has resistance and eagly eye, when taking magic damage, reduce that damage. So kind of golem-style magic resistance. Effect influenced by luck. So dwarves could get kind of second chance to resist. If they do not resist completely (normal dwarven resistance), they may reduce spell damage (resist at least part of it).
What about Luck + Offense giving a chance of doing double damage? And Luck plus Armorer giving a chance of reducing own physical damage?
Other ideas welcome.
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Timrod
Tavern Dweller
Class: Dwarven Ranger
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posted October 18, 2009 01:05 PM |
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Yes, those are all good ideas.
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Trying To Learn ERM..
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted October 18, 2009 02:35 PM |
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@Salamandre: I'm currently doing stack setup in round 0, and it works. It seems that anything works which does not do any animation or show any scroll text.
There is 1 problem though: If the battle has a tactics phase, the round 0 seems to occure once, if it has no tactics phase, round 0 occures twice. So i have to find a way to avoid double setup. Maybe use a flag. But when to set?
I think you wanted to know that.
Edit: I try this:
1. In the !?BA0 trigger, as last action )so, after any dialogues might be shown) i set flag 1 to 0:
...
!!IF:V1/0; Set to 0 for first round
!!FU:E;
Then i change my trigger for first round and add a first instruction:
!?BR&v997=0/-1; First round of battle
!!IF:V1/1; Set flag (done setup)
...
Now flag 1 is reserved until round 0 is done. Since you can't show any dialogues or do anything significant during round 0, that should be o.k.
After round 0 flag 1 is free again.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 18, 2009 02:43 PM |
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Stack setup works, but summoning does not. My problem was setting up more than 7 stacks in the round 0 (BU:S), it freezes the screen. Have you got a way to past over this?
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Era II mods and utilities
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This thread is pages long: 
