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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: The Dragon Slaughter
Thread: The Dragon Slaughter [ This thread is 43 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 (30) 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 ]
Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 19, 2012 06:02 AM

It works, thank you!
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 19, 2012 04:42 PM
Edited by JimV at 16:43, 19 Feb 2012.

A few posts ago I mentioned that I was showing my nephew Jon the latest version of TDS on his new Windows 7 PC, and in the very first battle outside the Tardis, the game crashed.  This is what happened:





In the first scene, a Centaur Captain stack is at hex 72, with one empty hex between it and the next stack, which has the Summon ability.  In the second scene, the h3wog program has decided to put the summoned stack at that empty hex, but since the creatures are two hexes wide, this overlaps the stack at 72, which disappears.

Not noticing this in the throes of battle, we had the Doctor cast a mass Lightning Bolt.  When the script gets to the stack at 72 and tries to cast there the game crashes.  I can think of three ways to attempt to fix this problem, ranging from easy to very difficult:

1. Use MA:X to set all 2-hex creatures to 1-hex (or perhaps BM:F in battle instead of MA;X) - easy, but then the creatures can overlap freely (with no disappearing stacks) which looks strange and perhaps suggestive to some minds.  The creatures will be able to squeeze through 1-hex gaps between obstacles, and dragon breath will not work on two of them unless they are in exact alignment.

2. Designate an alternate creature to be summoned or cloned for all 2-hex creatures, in Woodmelon's Neutral Creatures script.  For example, Azure Dragons might summon or clone Enchanters.

3. Re-write the h3wog program so that it does not place a summoned or cloned 2-hex creature where it will overlap another creature.

3 is beyond the scope of this project, but either 1 or 2 is doable.  Maybe someone has another idea.

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted February 19, 2012 06:12 PM
Edited by master_learn at 18:22, 19 Feb 2012.

Hexes

I cant help you with ideas what to do exactly,but want to share a thought-if you change 2-hex creatures to 1-hex,the first thing coming to my mind is the forcefield not working anymore vs 2-hex creatures,if your creature is not entirely closed by it!

And of course all battle tactic that is based on the weaknesses of the 2-hex creatures compared to 1-hex will be gone!

I think if you do that,you should be very careful,JimV!

In my opinion,alternate 1-hex creature to be summoned is GREAT idea!
Its as if you use the secret race,although in this case you transform clones!
Randomly or not-its your territory,JimV!

And one more thing-your clones can be 2-hex,because you may pay enough attention to not overlap creatures!

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 19, 2012 07:22 PM
Edited by JimV at 18:09, 27 Feb 2012.

Master_Learn, thanks for your comment.  I agree the 2-hex-->1-hex idea is right out (i.e., a non-starter, a dead parrot).  My proposal on the summoning and cloning abilities of neutral creatures is this:

Going back to Heroes II and perhaps even to Heroes I (but records are sketchy from that era), the only creatures which could be summoned were Elementals, so I propose to return to that tradition.

1. Level 1 and 2 neutral creatures will summon or clone Air Elementals (a level 2 creature).  Here "level" means (MA:L?)+1.

2. Level 3 & 4 creatures:  Fire Elementals.

3. Level 5 & 6 creatures:  Magma Elementals.

4. Level 7 and above:  Psychic Elementals, but instead of 0-50% (e.g., 50% of the stack count at Ace experience level), they will get 0-100%.

5. Except all shooters will get Storm Elementals, with the percentages adjusted based on the creature level (MA:L) - perhaps 0-40% for L1, 0-50% for L2, 0-60% for L3, ..., 0-100% for L7.

This may be a disadvantage to the Doctor, since Elementals are his creature types and he may upgrade them at Emerald Towers and Palaces of Dreams, and then face them in battle, but I am sure he is willing to pay that price for the good of humanity.

(TDS 2.07J and 2.07Dr were updated with this change.)
----------------------------------------------------------------
New Subject:  Camp Heroes

There are a lot of Mithril Mines, two Emerald Towers, two Palaces of Dreams, as well some Windmills and Waterwheels in TDS, so it might be useful to have extra Heroes "camped" at various locations.






The camp is actually a Garrison, which looks like a Nomad Tent.  (Normal Nomad Tents can be used in the same map without interference.) The Z(x)OBJCTS.TXT files have been edited by removing the red square of AVGnomd.def, so that it can be placed anywhere that a Hero can stand.  The Garrison contains the Hero's troops (with their experience and War Banners).  It is disabled for friendly Heroes, but enemy Heroes can, and do, attack it, in which case the camped Hero defends it, under his player's flag, and experience and artifacts gained in such battles are kept when the Hero uncamps.  If the camped Hero retreats or surrenders, it will appear in its player's Taverns, but while camped it cannot be hired by any player. Estates skill and Resource Specialties will continue to generate (standard) resources for the camped Hero's player.

The player can hire as many Heroes as the player wants, and camp them when their jobs are done or they run out of movement points, but a disadvantage is that only seven Heroes can be active.  This is so a camped Hero can fight attackers as a normal player Hero.  So Taverns and Prisons will not allow a player to hire a new Hero, and sleeping (camped) Heroes cannot be woken, if the player already has seven active Heroes.  (One of the active Heroes must be camped in that case.)  Once camped, a Hero cannot be uncamped until the next day or later.

This feature is working in a test map, but has not been tested under full TDS conditions yet.

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted February 27, 2012 06:25 PM

Promising

Congratulations,JimV,the idea sounds promising!

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 27, 2012 08:51 PM

Nice idea, but I see hardly any usage in TDS. AI heroes are scripted to never move out (unless we are masochist and choose this option), moreover, except our main hero, any secondary hero will be slaughtered if fight with AI hero. The mobility of secondary heroes being the key in this map, camping one means he will be out of the supply chain, and will remain weak, not updating anymore. I don't know...needs test. I was always short on heroes, 8 really not enough for all tasks they have to fulfill, so taking out one more slot could be restrictive. But maybe others have different style of play.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 27, 2012 10:41 PM

Supply chain example:  A to B to C to D.  A and B are active at the start of a turn, C and D are camped.  A moves to B and transfers supplies to B, then camps.  B moves to C.  C uncamps and takes the supplies from B and moves to D.  B camps and D uncamps.  In fact the chain could stretch from A to Z, camping and uncamping Heroes along the chain.  Each chain would only require two active Heroes at once, so there could be three chains going in different directions, with some planning.  With eight active Heroes there could be four chains.

In a game of TDS in which the AI is not allowed to roam freely, a version of the script could be used in which eight Heroes can be active, but a camped Hero can not be attacked (the Garrison would be disabled to all players).  I prefer to have a general script which will work in more maps.  It is easier to tailor a large suit of clothes to fit a smaller person than the reverse.  Or maybe not, I am not a tailor, but the analogy works for scripts.

I actually haven't noticed a logistics problem in my (few) games of TDS, because with the colors I have played I am able to get a Town Portal spell before I need to start going back and forth across the map much.  Also, there is the Tai Chi necklace.  So I will probably save the Camping script for some other map.


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Bersy
Bersy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 28, 2012 01:47 PM

Jim, would not you be so kind to write the primary skills patch (displaying values over 99) in the txt document in the form of:
hex_address hex_bytes
hex_address hex_bytes

like:
887668 11AA157B9030
401000 05
...

The reason of the request is the ability to use this patch in all Era versions for custom projects (maps/mods).

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 28, 2012 02:08 PM
Edited by JimV at 15:43, 02 Mar 2012.

Bersy, I listed the patch on page 29 of this thread, but neglected to save it as a text file.  I have now uploaded the text file at the TDS link, http://www.box.com/shared/bj1eh6b50e (PrimarySkillsPatch.txt).  It looks like this:

4E5BE4 7D
4519B7 7D
463AA9 7D
46C816 7D
59BFD1 7D
527296 7D
4E1980 7D
5B1255 7D
51D7EA 7D
4E567D 7D
4E63A5 7D
46C7A2 7D
4E63CC 7D
46C7DC 7D
46C851 7D
46C8C3 7D
4E2093 7D
4C7F0B 7D
4C8044 7D
4D8BFC 7D
4D9125 7D
4A3404 7D
4A32C2 7D
5272C5 7D
425C3A 7D
4C80AC 7D
4C82F5 7D
4C83E7 7D
4DD879 7D
52F1D5 7D
4D9C0F 7D
46388C 7D
4638B4 7D
4638DC 7D
463ADC 7D
4DA53D 7D
524D11 7D
524FAD 7D
52509C 7D
525118 7D
524E46 7D
524F4C 7D
5DE655 7D
5DE700 7D
5DE7AB 7D
5DE998 7D
4241BF 7D
4241ED 7D
42417D 7D
42419C 7D
526FFA 7D
757EB4 7D

I hope that is the correct format.  Sorry for the confusion.  Credit is also due to Salamandre for extensive testing which led to the addition of some patches for "God Bonuses" to Primary Skills.

Note to others:  the last patch address applies to WoG 3.59 as used in Era, and should not be used in a plain WoG 3.58f system.  See page 29 of this thread for the WoG 3.58f address.

Update - three new addresses have been added just before the last address as a result of testing by Salamandre - see his March 1, 2012 post.

Update, March 1, 2012 - several new addresses have been added, due to further testing by Salamandre and myself.  There are now 52 addresses.  PrimarySkillsPatch.txt at Box.net has been updated.

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Bersy
Bersy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 28, 2012 03:09 PM

Thank you. Because I found lots of cap addresses especially in formulas, so I decided not to include such a solution in the Era package.
This is less then half of the list:

42417D - 1
424181 - 4
42419C - 1
4241A0 - 4
4241BF - 1
4241C3 - 4
4241ED - 1
4241F4 - 4
425C3A - 1
425C3E - 4
42BEFB - 1
42BF11 - 1
432956 - 1
43295A - 4
432ADD - 1
432AE1 - 4
432B13 - 1
432B17 - 4
433745 - 1
433749 - 4
442F0B - 1
442F0F - 4
442F29 - 1
442F2D - 4
4519B7 - 1
4519BB - 4
46388C - 1
463890 - 4
4638B4 - 1
4638B8 - 4
4638DC - 1
4638E0 - 4
463AA9 - 1
463AAD - 4
463ADC - 1
463AE0 - 4
46C7A2 - 1
46C7A6 - 4
46C7DC - 1
46C7E0 - 4
46C816 - 1
46C81A - 4
46C851 - 1
46C855 - 4
46C8C3 - 1
46C8C7 - 4
4846F9 - 1
4846FD - 4
48621B - 1
48621F - 4
48636C - 1
486370 - 4
486390 - 1
486394 - 4
486783 - 1
486787 - 4
492FD1 - 1
492FD5 - 4
492FEB - 1
492FEF - 4
49E4FB - 1
49E4FF - 4
49E517 - 1
49E51B - 4
4A32C2 - 1
4A32C6 - 4
4A3404 - 1
4A3408 - 4
4A7826 - 1
4A782A - 4
4A7842 - 1
4A7846 - 4
4C7F0B - 1
4C7F11 - 4
4C8044 - 1
4C8048 - 4
4C80AC - 1
4C80B0 - 4
4C82F5 - 1
4C82F9 - 4
4C83E7 - 1
4C83EB - 4
4D8BFC - 1
4D8C00 - 4
4D9125 - 1
4D9129 - 4
4D9C0F - 1
4D9C13 - 4
4DA53D - 1
4DA541 - 4

So it came to my mind that it's better to use your addresses which remove probably only visible limits.

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 28, 2012 06:23 PM

I thought there might be some limits I missed, but the ones I found give increased spell damage in battle (e.g., Expert Armageddon is 50*Power +120), as shown by an example posted up-thread.  A few of the ones on my list don't produce any change that I could see during testing, but I included them anyway.  Maybe they are only used in AI-AI battles.

I was looking for comparisons to 99 (0x63) and changing them to 125 (0x7D) - I'm not sure if that is what you are referring to in your list.

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Bersy
Bersy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 28, 2012 06:42 PM

In OllyDebugger I search for all constants 63 and filter. Most of places have also references to offsets 476..479 which are primary skills. Anyway, total amount of manual checks for 0x63 is really huge

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 28, 2012 07:14 PM

I first found where a Hero's Primary Skills are stored (in a given session/event), and then searched for code which accessed those locations, in various situations (battle attacker, battle defender, Hero Screen, etc.).  I only changed comparisons to 99, not the constants used to reset the values over 99 (so for example a skill of 126 will display as 99 - I consider this an early warning of overflow), so that skips many 99 constants.  Still your list is so much bigger that I probably did not check all of the possible events.  Visual displays were easy to check, as well as spell damage, since I could tell whether they changed or not as I changed data.  The AI's "vision" of whether or not it will win a battle if it attacks could be and probably is an example of a missed event.  So I am sure my list could be improved, but I can hope the improvements would not have significant effects on game play.  

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 01, 2012 04:31 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 16:37, 01 Mar 2012.

Probably the additional addresses are about other situations, as right clicking on hero, when right clicking on his portrait in list or when right clicking on the primary skill icon (hero screen). Skills over 99 display as 99 when doing so. Did not dig other situations except those three ones.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 01, 2012 05:50 PM

Those three events are covered by two new addresses:  52F1D5 (5,435,861 in decimal) and 4DD879 (5,101,689).  I have added these two to PrimarySkillsPatch.txt at Box.net, just before the end of the list (the last one in the list is still the only one which has a different address in WoG 3.58f vs. Wog 3/59/Era).  I will update my previous post with the new script version after checking that I can extend the variable list without interfering with other TDS scripts (otherwise I will have to change the variable numbers).

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 01, 2012 07:17 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 19:21, 01 Mar 2012.

Thank you, they fixed now. I found another issue, probably the last, when both L/R-click on stats in heroes meeting screen.


And when the hero with stats >100 is visited (he is on right side), r/l click on skills icons:



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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 01, 2012 08:32 PM

Address 4D9C0F (5,086,223) has been added to PrimarySkillsPatch.txt, and to previously-posted address listings, to fix this latest issue.  This brings the address count up to 32.  This address works in both WoG 3.58f and Wog 3.59/Era 1.8.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 01, 2012 08:53 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 20:57, 01 Mar 2012.

Thank you for hard work, seems that the patch is complete now. Tested taverns too, I don't see in what other situation we have heroes stats displayed.

@Edit: don't shoot the messenger. Den of thieves (and similar infos in tavern) still counts up to 99 only.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 02, 2012 01:30 PM

Meanwhile, worried about Bersy's massive list, I thought of some more battle tests to try, and found five additional addresses which affect battles.  These have been added to PrimarySkillsPatch.txt at http://www.box.com/shared/bj1eh6b50e and I was about to update previous posts with them when I came here and saw your message about the Den of Thieves.  I will find addresses for the D0T later today, as I have to go to an appointment now.  I am up to 37 addresses now, and will probably break 40 by the end of the day.  Maybe eventually my list will be half or one-third the size of Bersy's (since I am only changing the 99's which are used in conditional tests).

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted March 02, 2012 02:08 PM

Thanks

JimV,I as a player want to thank you for your work,the results of which make my playing more enjoyable!
Keep up the good work!

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