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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Multiplayer aspects of Heroes 6
Thread: Multiplayer aspects of Heroes 6 This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted August 31, 2010 10:23 AM
Edited by infinitus at 12:03, 31 Aug 2010.

Multiplayer aspects of Heroes 6

As "Tournament of Honor" active member i interested in more information on multiplayer aspects of the game. Please dear UBI insiders, if possible, some more information about it.
Here is some ideas coming from my reach multiplayer activity in Heroes 5 :

Spectators for games in progress. Possibility to record entire game, not only final battles  Very useful future for big competitions, allow to judge games by referee, eliminate cheating and abuses in big online competitions. Good for educative purposes too.  

Specific sound on start of player turn working like alarm - purpose is to give players possibility to make other activities in time of opponent turns, to save players time.

More multiplayer maps with sim turn staying longer - again to save players time.

More mirror multiplayer maps - most popular maps actually are mirror maps.

More two players maps - most balanced way to play Heroes is 1 vs 1.

Better random map generator, better templates - Heroes 5 random map generator is not very good, almost all templates are not playable, bad balance, sim turn may end on day 1 almost on all templates.

Opponents start zones more far from each others with no possibilities to instant travel in opponent start zone - i have games were opponent jump over mountains and take main town in same turn, very annoying ...

Low level ressurection spell for all factions - to avoid balance issues like - "omg around my only ranged neutrals, i can't creep, i doomed".

Artefacts more balanced, less powerful - lots of games end because of luck finding better arts ...

Some spells must be always accessible in mage guild - For example if one player get resurrect spell and opponent not, this give big advantage to first player over opponent. With this spell he can creep all neutrals on map. This is even more actual in battle between two good oriented factions, in this case is no use at all for word of light spell in final battle...

Auto-matching system for decent ranking, web page with ranking True interest in multiplayer is to play vs decent opponents, and to see players progress in ranking. No true success and long life can be achieved by game if game ranking is bad and not accurate.

Duel, arena maps Custom arena, duels maps proved to be very popular, time to make them official in final product.

Dynamic battles. Option to set more time for creature, hero turn. For serious play need time for think on each move in final battle.

Training room like in chess computer programs Possibility to setup, simulate final battles, setup troops number, number of stacks etc Very useful for training, test new tactics.

Saved game protected by password To eliminate possibility to watch save using two computers.

Protection vs scanner programs More security vs hackers.

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just_godlike
just_godlike

Tavern Dweller
posted September 02, 2010 04:23 PM
Edited by just_godlike at 16:25, 02 Sep 2010.

Very nice post mate.

I really like the idea of faster gameplay. What I mean by that is the time needed to complete a map. With simultaneous turns its bearable, but when it ends, the game just becomes a pain even in 1v1. Not to mention when it's played by more than 2 players. I don't have any specific ideas on how to fix this, but I encourage all members here to try and suggest something. Because I really hope HoMM6 has a better multiplayer experience than its ancestor.
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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted September 02, 2010 05:27 PM

Quote:
With simultaneous turns its bearable, but when it ends, the game just becomes a pain even in 1v1.

Sim turns end then players are too close to each others. If it was possible to re-enable sim turns after players get far one from other will be very nice. Lots of players time saved, but not sure this is possible to realize in practice. More accurate auto-combat looses calculation can save a lot of time too, in this case less battles need to be played manually.    

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 02, 2010 05:31 PM

Some good ideas in there.
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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted September 02, 2010 05:48 PM

Quote:
Some good ideas in there.

Thanks. If at least one will serve to make game better, i will be very glad.

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DIEGIS
DIEGIS


Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
posted September 02, 2010 08:28 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Some good ideas in there.

Thanks. If at least one will serve to make game better, i will be very glad.


Dont know what u mean by this last state, but u synthesized some good ideas I also mentioned in the forum  
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted September 02, 2010 08:56 PM

Quote:
Dont know what u mean by this last state, but u synthesized some good ideas I also mentioned in the forum  

I mean, so many voices here, i think chance to be listened by developers are really low ... Good to know we have some common, good ideas

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted September 03, 2010 03:01 AM

Well, with Elvin listening, there's at least a medium-size chance it will be brought up in the VIP forums, which is a lot better than a bunch of guys just sitting in an empty room shouting at the walls...

I like those ideas too, incidentally.  What I would like to see is a change in the way difficulty settings work.  Right now, if you set the difficulty higher, you start with fewer resources in addition to the AI being amped up.  I'd like to see a setting that makes the game harder without gimping your faction for the first several weeks.

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DIEGIS
DIEGIS


Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
posted September 03, 2010 07:52 PM
Edited by DIEGIS at 19:52, 03 Sep 2010.

Quote:
Well, with Elvin listening, there's at least a medium-size chance it will be brought up in the VIP forums, which is a lot better than a bunch of guys just sitting in an empty room shouting at the walls...
Quote:


Lets hope hes sending the messages as they are, if he really has a mouth there ...

Quote:
I like those ideas too, incidentally.  What I would like to see is a change in the way difficulty settings work.  Right now, if you set the difficulty higher, you start with fewer resources in addition to the AI being amped up.  I'd like to see a setting that makes the game harder without gimping your faction for the first several weeks.


Right!
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
www.cabinet-dentaire-malaunay.fr

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 10, 2010 10:13 PM

Having read the masterpost more carefully I have a few comments to make.

- More two players maps - most balanced way to play Heroes is 1 vs 1.

Not necessarily true. Reason this type of map has prevailed is for practical reasons as opponent availability and net issues. Many players enjoyed a game on rr as 1v1v1 - First player engages the second, whoever wins reloads and continues game with the third. Nobody could complain that way.

- Low level ressurection spell for all factions - to avoid balance issues like - "omg around my only ranged neutrals, i can't creep, i doomed".

I could imagine that working for one faction.. But all? Ridiculous, that would make creeping unoriginal, far from creative and take away the unique flavour. Besides the problem in H5 was not offering possible counters for every faction not to mention high damage to hp ratio. Even worse atb was really random so you could not plan ahead possible losses. Finally there was the silly logarithmic formula that made earlygame casters a real pain.

- Artefacts more balanced, less powerful - lots of games end because of luck finding better arts ...

Heroes always had crazy artifacts and everybody loved it. Again the problem was not artifact strength but certain aspects like luck and initiative being broken. Why? An 20% init bonus would benefit a naturally high init faction like sylvan more than a slow one like orcs. Ring of speed + max morale + haste would give A LOT more actions to specific factions. Also +-2 luck/morale was also huge in gameplay terms whereas +-1 would be too little for a relic. Etc.

- Some spells must be always accessible in mage guild

Again a case of unbalanced spell effects. Good vs average vs bad, not a mage guild issue.

- Dynamic battles. Option to set more time for creature, hero turn. For serious play need time for think on each move in final battle.

Don't play dynamic? I mean if you really want to think there's no point setting each unit 2-3 min time, dynamic is MEANT for fast play. Horses for courses.
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted September 11, 2010 01:00 AM

Agreed with Elvin on everything, except having a customizable timer for dynamic battles would be extremely easy to add, so they should just add it. You could set it for ~2 minutes in case you don't want people going to the extreme of sitting at their desk with a pen and pencil.
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted September 11, 2010 01:10 AM

I think a possible solution to the issue of spells is if they were to give you so many 'core' spells per level, and then so many 'utility' spells per level.

To make a comparison to Dungeons and Dragons, you have some spells that are commonly used, and then some spells that are just circumstantial.

Anyway, maybe I'll make a detailed thread about it if I feel inspired enough.
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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted September 11, 2010 07:54 AM

Quote:
Many players enjoyed a game on rr as 1v1v1 - First player engages the second, whoever wins reloads and continues game with the third. Nobody could complain that way.

Good way to compete too, but it's hard to implement on official ranking server were reload is equal to loose ranking points. Also is not mainstream even on TOH. Imagine Caesar played as 1v1v1, don't think too many people will accept that for final stage of tournament.

Quote:
not to mention high damage to hp ratio

Agree, but high damage to hp ratio make creep less time consuming. Heroes 5 with his hi damage already is very time consuming game, if we increase hp and decrease damage we will need more time to spend to finish game. Modern tendency for multiplayer is to save as match players time as possible.

Quote:
Don't play dynamic? I mean if you really want to think there's no point setting each unit 2-3 min time, dynamic is MEANT for fast play.

Don't like dynamic, but it's a must on official server to prevent be abused. Example - opponent enter battle and don't move his units to make you leave game. Dynamic counter this.

Quote:
To make a comparison to Dungeons and Dragons, you have some spells that are commonly used, and then some spells that are just circumstantial.

Nice idea to me. D@D is good example to follow cos have so long and glorious history.  

 


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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 11, 2010 08:15 AM

On the latter it would be nice if the guild gave you 2/3 or 3/5 available spells all more or less equal. That would still allow for variety.
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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted September 11, 2010 09:50 AM
Edited by infinitus at 09:51, 11 Sep 2010.

One more idea, not very crucial, but let's voiced it - In mirror match (for example sylvan vs sylvan) allow players to select the same start hero (for example Ossir vs Ossir). Let's say Warcraft 3 allow this, and it's only for the good of this game. Or maybe as option in game setup, to allow or not allow, let's players decide.

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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted December 31, 2010 09:48 PM

Tear of Asha - forget to mention about H5 tear problem. In static H5 maps tear of asha is implemented very bad, if you know map, for example Dragon Pass, you can dig tear on week two after visiting only one obelisk, is more like a cheat this way ... On random maps is another problem, i say even worse - Tear of Asha location is visible in map editor ! Very easy to cheat ... In general is good to have in game "Tear of Asha" option, but not realized like in Heroes 5 ...  

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vitorsly
vitorsly


Known Hero
Joker!
posted January 01, 2011 12:50 AM

I think it should include a good random map creator and hotseat mode.
I only didnt buy Starcraft 2 because of the 'no LAN multiplayer'
If Heroes continues with the casual multiplayer Im OK.

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Abiogenist
Abiogenist


Hired Hero
posted January 03, 2011 01:38 AM

Some very good ideas in this thread.

However, my main concern in HoMM is the speed of the game. When my friend and I play hotseat, it takes us about more than seven hours just to finish the game in a small-medium map. Part of the blame is that we like to fully build our towns.  But I'm hoping there should be solutions to make the game faster.

My suggestion is Ability to set town level as game option. You can customize which creature dwellings and their upgraded counterparts are built and etc. This will make the multiplayer aspect faster.

Another suggestion: Deathmatch Duel Game Mode. How will this work? It's just standard gameplay; you gather your resources, artefacts, armies, and etc, but there is a timer. The timer can be set prior to the actual game. Once the timer expires, the players are forced to duel mode with their chosen best heroes, artefacts, and armies. There should be a window to transfer armies and artefacts to the best hero without the expense of movement points. However, I can only see this mode functional in 1v1. I'm not sure how it will work in more than two players.

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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted March 09, 2011 11:46 AM

Automatching system is best way to go for multiplayer game server. If not possible, is good to have possibility to set rules like - in my game room can enter players with 2000+ ranking points or higher. Also is good to have access to opponent statistic not only in game lobby, but in game room too.

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creepiestdani
creepiestdani


Adventuring Hero
posted March 09, 2011 01:04 PM
Edited by creepiestdani at 15:49, 09 Mar 2011.

Quote:
- Artefacts more balanced, less powerful - lots of games end because of luck finding better arts ...

Heroes always had crazy artifacts and everybody loved it. Again the problem was not artifact strength but certain aspects like luck and initiative being broken. Why? An 20% init bonus would benefit a naturally high init faction like sylvan more than a slow one like orcs. Ring of speed + max morale + haste would give A LOT more actions to specific factions. Also +-2 luck/morale was also huge in gameplay terms whereas +-1 would be too little for a relic. Etc.

I agree with Infinitus that very powerful artifacts tip the scales far too much in one's favor in multiplayer, and I suspect most (if not all) relic artifacts will fit into this category. An additional 18 might power from Crag Hat's helmet is huge (+5 initiative could be too, depending on how initiative works). But I don't think the solution is to remove them. Better to add the choice of restricting their availability in multiplayer. It's a good thing that there is a special category for such artifacts. There could be an option to enable/disable relic artifacts for any given map. There could also be the possibility for map makers to disable the relic enabling option should they so desire.

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