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| Thread: Would the US be better or worse if it was broken apart? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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blizzardboy
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posted October 16, 2010 11:16 PM |
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Would the US be better or worse if it was broken apart?
Let's say the 50 States of the US each become fully independent countries. Florida and the Floridan keys start speaking Spanish. The Mid-Atlantic industrial belt starts speaking German. New England speaks English. The Louisiana territories start speaking French. The Pacific coast starts speaking Chinese. Alaska starts speaking Russian, and the western heartlands start speaking Vulcan.
What would the advantages and disadvantages be? How would it affect commerce? How would it affect politics? How would it affect the culture? Would certain regions benefit or suffer more than others?
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Binabik
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posted October 16, 2010 11:42 PM |
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It sounds to me more like what the united states were supposed to be in the first place. Notice the word "were" that makes the word "united" an adjective and the word "states" plural. That's how it's written in many of the early documents.
As to your specific questions, it depends on if the states still had some kind of confederacy, how it was written, common currency, trade tariffs, travel restrictions and a bunch of other stuff.
Under the right circumstances I wouldn't be opposed to the idea. I don't really like the language part though. That would be a pain in the arse.
The first step is to level DC to the ground.
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del_diablo
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posted October 17, 2010 12:41 AM |
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From a outsiders view: It would be a lot better.
Suddenly, the entire "world police" notion falls apart, along with many other small problems that is sort of bothering the civilized world.
On a long term perspective? No idea. Most likely it would be positive.
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DagothGares
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posted October 17, 2010 12:53 AM |
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hey, from division, the human race grows strong. Well, that's the reason historians give to medieval europe's excellence compared to other parts of the world.
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JollyJoker
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posted October 17, 2010 08:36 AM |
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On the other hand "State" borders are very arbitrary as well.
Isn't that more or less about the question of how much governmental power is with the federal governmemnt and how much is with the State?
Borders suck, I say.
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Mytical
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posted October 17, 2010 08:54 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 08:55, 17 Oct 2010.
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Since this isn't www.fratching.com you don't want to know what I think would be best for America.
However, I can say this, there are quite a few places that could stand a little 'breaking apart'. Not talking about America either (though it might *shrugs*)
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VokialBG
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posted October 17, 2010 09:50 AM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 10:13, 17 Oct 2010.
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Quote:
On the other hand "State" borders are very arbitrary as well.
Isn't that more or less about the question of how much governmental power is with the federal governmemnt and how much is with the State?
Borders suck, I say.
If there are no borders, there are no states, and there is no fedaration but unitarian state. This is going to to ruin the whole structure of the USA state government (not sure for the english term here). According to the Constitutionc of the USA, the states are independent, however this if just formal. There are 3 theories on the problem, one of them says that the federation is sovereignty in the sovereignty, I like more the other one that says that the states are less independent than the federal state.
However if there were no USA, and not even a confederacy, but 50 independent unitarian states, most of them are going to be 3rd world countries. About the confederacy, most of the authors agree that it's not a state but a specific type of union. It's made for protection against outside danger, and the states in it can not leave it, in the contract there are phrases like "this is the eternal union" and stuffs.
Thats why when you read the Treaty of Lisbon you can say that the EU start to federate.
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JollyJoker
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posted October 17, 2010 10:06 AM |
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The question is what kind of borders there are. On one hand there are extremes like the Iron Curtain, on another there are teritorial boundaries that simply mark the change from one jurisdiction to another or even from one administration to another. What I mean are borders like those of currency, language, id control and so on.
Obviously in an ideal world you had none of these hard borders, so the direction in which to look seems clear.
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Aculias
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posted October 17, 2010 10:28 AM |
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Yea that is all we need. Another America 
50 lol. I think the world would end before we could count to 100 if that was the case
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DagothGares
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posted October 17, 2010 11:18 AM |
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The most important question is: who's gonna get all the nukes?
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JoonasTo
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posted October 17, 2010 11:18 AM |
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Realistically speaking there would be a world wide economic crash.
Japan would come crashing down.
Russian influence would grow quite a bit. As would chinese in the asian and african area.
The korean peninsula would go into a chaotic state, even war. Not to even mention Afghanistan and Irak.
And most of the states would turn into backwater snowholes no one wants to visit, ever.
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VokialBG
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posted October 17, 2010 12:01 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 12:10, 17 Oct 2010.
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I think we are speaking if there was no USA ever.
If not I'll add to Joonas, that Israel is going to be destroyed. Afghanistan and Iraq are going to be free again, you can't place democracy on place where there are not enough social and culture prerequisites. As we all can see this democracy experiment there as a failure.
Also there were going to be another strong power so the balance of the bipolar system is fixed (it's what we wait even now, according to Kissinger).
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Mytical
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posted October 17, 2010 12:11 PM |
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As would a lot of places..love or hate America, a lot of would be dictators have been stopped by America. *shrugs* Let the world take care of itself..I'll stop there before I go into fratching territory
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VokialBG
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posted October 17, 2010 12:22 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 12:27, 17 Oct 2010.
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Well, about this "anti-dictars" and "pro-democracy" wars, there are used by the USA to get more influence around the world.
The Cold War has a characterization that says that the 2 great powers USA and the USSR influence or conquer another states and place there their social and political structure. You can see that. All piaces of Europe that were "liberated" by the USSR during the WW2 became communist states. Same happened with North Korea and some states in Africa and etc. On the opposite side USA was doing the same by giving money to Turkey, Greece, by sending army to Korea and etc. The different now is that there is no USSR, USA continue doing the same by conquering Iraq, and other Middle East countries. It's just the only world power now that can do it.
And there is nothing bad in that, don't get me wrong, it's how the World powers work.
IMO the free countries must become ideologicaly free and politicaly free to choose their form of state administration and governing. The world powers have not the morale right to choose instead of them.
Not to mention, but some states on the globe are really better when having a dictator.
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Mytical
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posted October 17, 2010 12:29 PM |
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I am a live and let live person, but I have to say this. When people have a choice of what government, I don't really care what type of government they chose. When it is forced apon them by military might, even by America, it is wrong. I agree that nobody has a right to chose what government people CHOOSE, but when the choice is taken away .. I think it is the moral duty of everybody to step in and say "No."
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blizzardboy
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posted October 17, 2010 02:37 PM |
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Here's a graph (from '07 I think) showing how much money the federal government puts into each State for every dollar that the State gives.
Which areas are happy with this arrangement, and which others not so much?
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baklava
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posted October 17, 2010 05:59 PM |
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Quote:
I think the world would end before we could count to 100
You, as in, Americans?
Yes. Yes it would.
(ho ho)
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Elodin
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posted October 18, 2010 12:56 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 00:58, 18 Oct 2010.
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As we all can see this democracy experiment there as a failure.
I disagree.
America has done more to spread democracy around the world than any other nation and I think that is a wonderful thing. "Democracy" is not a failure anywheres but certain groups in certain nations will always fight against it because they hate democratic rule. They want their own little group ruling and don't care about what anyone else wants.
Oppressed peoples do not want to be ground under someone's boot. But they don't always see a way to fight and win their freedom. That fight can be difficult indeed and requires usually requires the sacrifice of many to win. Americans should be proud they have helped so many to taste liberty. Hopefully Iraq will become a strong democracy and not return to a tyranical government.
Oh, to answer the original poster now.
The individual states and the world would be much worse off if each state became a separate nation. However, each state would be much better off if the government returned to respecting the Tenth Ammendment.
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baklava
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posted October 18, 2010 09:14 AM |
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Quote:
Oppressed peoples do not want to be ground under someone's boot.
Including yours.
I see how you liberated us from Milosevic. By bombing bridges and hospitals and supporting separatist groups who took pride in burning churches. You sacrificed many, yeah, but none of your own. You sacrificed us in hundreds to get what you wanted.
And you didn't even take the dictator out. We had to do it ourselves a year later, when you went away, cause all your democracy cared about is getting to Kosovo. Leaving behind a trail of anti-Americanism and anti-Westernism, and giving far-right nationalist idiots here much needed popular support which now worsens every day.
Have you ever wondered why other countries, including democratic ones, can't seem to appreciate what you're doing for the free world? How only you can understand how much freedom and joy you bring?
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Kipshasz
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posted October 18, 2010 12:56 PM |
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The people of Iraq is expiriencing the same thing that the people of the Baltic states expirienced in WWII. The USSR also promised us freedom from the Nazi Germany, but in reality it was one occupation after another(first the Soviets, then the nazis, then the soviets again, and now the EU). What's worse though, that we who were(are) occupated are helping with the occupation that some happy imbeciles are calling librerating. I agree with Baklava had said here.
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