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| Thread: MMH6 Ideas - Creature Themes |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Aatos
Adventuring Hero
Heroic Adventurer
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posted November 28, 2010 09:11 PM |
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I don't like to see animals alone as creatures, because it doesn't seem very innovative to me. Although it would be nice if they looked ready for battle.
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To fail to plan is to plan to
fail.
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SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
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posted November 28, 2010 10:35 PM |
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@Aatos Well the Bears in H5 Fortress DID look ready for battle with their armour (and two abilities, Paw Strike, and the one that terrified the opponent, were performed by the Bear itself) they don't need anyone to ride them.
And there are also the Wolves (e.g. HOMM2) while they didn't have any armour, they didn't need it as they were offensive units and abilities like double strike and the H5 Pack Hunter aided it greatly - seriously, Wolves aren't horses, its impossible an animal like that would even LET any Human, Dwarf, Orc etc. to ride them 
Another example is the White Tiger from H4 Nature - did it not seem ready for battle to you?
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Aatos
Adventuring Hero
Heroic Adventurer
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posted November 28, 2010 11:02 PM |
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@SkrentyzMienty I think that considering what kind of an arsenal creatures will have in H6 (weapons, armor, armor-like skin, weapon-like limbs...) every creature needs to look evenly matched and capable to fight one with another.
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SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
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posted November 28, 2010 11:11 PM |
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@Aatos Well, yes, but that doesn't disprove my point and I'm not quite sure what yours was in this post
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted November 29, 2010 12:32 AM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 00:33, 29 Nov 2010.
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Max 2 dwarf units for the dwarven faction, in my opinion.
A kind of Yeti in the line-up would be perfect, I also think they need more Ice. I don't know really, a igloo monster or something.
Rocs in the faction would be awesome as well. I don't like the idea of trolls being slaves. Trolls are to awesome for that.
If there is a dream of the perfect town then that is the Troll town... seriously they need their own faction 
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 29, 2010 12:36 AM |
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I don't think we really want WoW Naga, we want Ashan Naga.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted November 29, 2010 12:52 AM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 00:53, 29 Nov 2010.
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Or Antagarich Naga  
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted November 29, 2010 01:38 AM |
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I go for Beastmen. Wolfmen/Werewolves/Lycanthropes anyday!
Oh and Minotaurs and Medusas works too 
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 29, 2010 07:47 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 22:37, 01 Dec 2010.
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Humans is the opposite, they need only 3 other creatures than humans, but I actually adore then new haven theme!
No, there should never be 1 exception, there should be either no rule, no exceptions, or at least 2 exceptions, 1 single exception is just too awkward.
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Homm3 was perfect, homm5 could be perfect if it only had 2 race based creatures in each faction.
That's only your opinion, and mine is that a lot of the factions in H3 seem weak precisely because they lack a strong controlling race.
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I complain about H5 Fortress because I don't want the makers of homm6 to make the same damn mistake again.
I wasn't talking to you, everyone already knows you absolutely hate any line-up that isn't a totally random mix of creatures that wouldn't actually work in anything but a programmer's imagination
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I know they read this forum from time to time and that they listen to fans, thats why I complain about things I never want to see again. H5 fortress is the worst thing ever, never want to see that again in my life.
Strange, most people say that Infernopolis was the worst faction of the entire saga.
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And haven never been my favorite town, but one town with race based units is okay, not 2 or 3 and in homm6 the haven looks marvelous and has less human units.
And this is just hypocrisy, if it's alright for faction X, why not for faction Y.
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While I do agree that Heroes 3 was a great game, and gameplay-wise probably better than Heroes 5 (if for nothing else because H5 was so technically bugged down that you couldn't play large maps) -
Personally I'd consider that more 'playability' (the ability to play the game at all) than 'gameplay' (the way the game is actually played).
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This was one of the many reason I really liked the factions i H3. Most of the other fantasy we have, LotR or whatever Elves are always a single powerful faction and it is the same with dwarfs. I don't like that, I prefer how it was i H3 were they had more of a mix between races.
Yeah, well I personally I hated that setup, and I hadn't even 'heard' of LotR at the time (this was back before the movie came out, and the local library didn't have a copy). Also remember that LotR basically set the tone for the dwarves in any case, so unless you totally reinvent them...
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I see no problem whatsoever that 2 diffrent races share the same faction quite the opposite. I personally like to see dwarfs a small race that more or less just "tag along" another bigger race such as the elves. Heroes 3 to me had a "fairy tale"-theme, which was really awesome and unique, H5 on other hand just has this modern/exploited fantasy feel to to it.
And I'm more inclined towards considering the elves the minority race, after all, the dwarves can live in dozens of levels underground, whereas elves have only one surface to live on.
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The race combinations i H3 was very nice, elves/dwarfs, troglodytes/minotaurs, gnolls/lizardmen and goblins/orcs all of them were great.
Well elves are naturalists while dwarves are industrious (traditionally) so I can't see how that works. Um, it wasn't just those two in Dungeon, you also had Medusae/s and Harpies, and frankly I never say how any on them actually managed to get along at all. Gnolls and Lizardmen were another pair that always struck a wrong cord for me, I mean, WTF are hyenas, even anthropomorphic one doing in swamps, they're plains-dwellers if they're flaming anything. As for the Goblins/Orcs, I'll again raise the issue that you also had Orges and Cyclopses, turning your duo once again into a quartet. And too many races troubles me almost as much as too many creatures, you again end up with no feeling of cohesion.
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oh please no, 4 is way too much that is only acceptable for Haven :/
Oh don't make me repeat, if it's okay for Haven, WTF not for anyone else?
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The H5 Fortress was terrible because there was so much potential of introducing popular Norse mythology creatures instead of making 6 Dwarven creatures and yet another Dragon.
True, true, although I'd say it was because they absolutely stuffed the lineup around, I mean a guy (okay, 'dwarf') with knuckl-dusters being highed than one with a pickaxe and shield or riding a bear? No thanks.
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CORE: Defender, Gog/Magog, Wolf
ELITE: Bear Rider (or even Bear on its own, as you like), Rune Priest, Efreet
CHAMPION: Magma Dragon (I really liked it)
In the other thread, someone said that Gog/Magog and Efreet don't fit there too well, but IMO they do with the Fortress being stationed atop a dormant volcano etc. also it maintains the balance as the replacements for Thane and Skirmisher are Flyer and Shooter respectively
First, that was last page, not another thread, secondly, IMO, Gog and Efreet really don't fit Efreet are spirits, while Gogs, or Gog and Magog are minor characters in the bible, so they don't really fit either IMO.
And I know that this is going to be unpopular, but meh, I've never really cared before, don't see why I sould start now:
Core
Propper > Miner
Bolter > Dampbolter
Kob > Kobold
Elite
Runekeeper > Runecarver
Fyrd > Huskarl
Bear > War-Bear
Champion
Giant > Fire Giant
The heroes are Thane and Runelord.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted November 29, 2010 08:39 AM |
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Edited by Danny at 08:42, 29 Nov 2010.
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In the other end of the spectrum, I think H5 Academy with one "racial" unit could have worked, had the thematic aspect been more solid. Necropolis and Inferno work fine as thematic towns as well. Perhaps Academy would work better if they had in fact been a interracial town, conbining mages from different factions (remember that was what H3 Conflux did) - they still needed to find a more coherent theme for the other units, however.
The case of Academy is where they created a race-excuse to justify the random lineup only to keep a classic town. They are supposed to be humans who use their own magical creations and spirits in battle, it's not possible to make them interracial at this point. The concept is also trapped now, for "racial" units they could only include different versions of magi which I don't see happening, and now writing all that makes me think Academy was cut from H6 due to creativity issues. I used to say it's the elves that's the most difficult to change due to a lot of their "classic" units, but it's still easier to think of new nature-based units and shake up the faction while with Academy they can change Gremlins and Rakshasa to other magical creatures but not much else. Of course I can be proven wrong in the end but IF Academy is the 4th faction, I'd expect it to be mainly the same as H5 and the developers might use the excuse of "the fans need something familiar as well!".
Certain people here are wishing they pulled off the same thing for Dungeon and Fortress, to claim one of their units is the dominating race and the rest are their friends or minions. They couldn't do that so Fortress was axed and Dungeon got a brand new leading race. I agree it's a matter of taste to prefer the random lineups but they are not going back to that when the developers themselves refer to the factions as "races" inspired by Blizzard games and they are still going on with the big story arc involving all factions instead of separate campaigns. They want to make sure all the factions are equally important and relevant to the Heroes universe, which is not something several factions could have claimed in H3, especially Fortress.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 29, 2010 08:47 AM |
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My proposal for an improved lineup (I posted it in a different thread already, and it gets rid of Thane, Berserker, and Skirmisher):
CORE: Defender, Gog/Magog, Wolf
ELITE: Bear Rider (or even Bear on its own, as you like), Rune Priest, Efreet
CHAMPION: Magma Dragon (I really liked it)
Omg. I'm *way* too conservative to accept the Efreet, and much less the Gog, in the Dwarf town. Gogs are the guards of Hell and would (should) not turn up outside the Inferno.
I'm a bit undecided on the Heroes 5 Fortress riding between two horses, Snow and Fire. On one hand, I found the Magma Dragon and the Runepriests immensely cool. On the other hand, I would like to see a hardcore "Forge" faction - which could be the Dwarfs, or could be a separate Gnome faction - which would have the mechanical theme as a definer.
"Forge" theme is probably not a good idea for Dwarf faction as we already have the Dragon Golem morfed into the Fate Spinner in Heroes 6, and thus have been robbed of that opportunity. That means the regular Golem will also not go into this town.
Sticking to the Norse mythological theme and arctic/fire setting, my suggested line-up would be something like this:
CORE: Shieldguard, Berzerker, Runepriest
ELITE: Valkyrie, Fenrir, ?
CHAMPION: Fire Giant
Not sure exactly what to put in the last Elite spot.
About the Fire Giant, he would take the place as the incarnation of the Fire Element, and thus would be similar to the role played by Angel (Light), Faceless (Dark), and Fate Spinners, and could also be matched by the (Cloud) Giant / Titan (Air) in Academy and possibly similar creatures for Earth (Treant?) and Water (Wyrm?).
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What will happen now?
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 29, 2010 09:19 AM |
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brewmaster, alci.
dwarves like a drinking.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
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posted November 29, 2010 09:44 AM |
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Quote:
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My proposal for an improved lineup (I posted it in a different thread already, and it gets rid of Thane, Berserker, and Skirmisher):
CORE: Defender, Gog/Magog, Wolf
ELITE: Bear Rider (or even Bear on its own, as you like), Rune Priest, Efreet
CHAMPION: Magma Dragon (I really liked it)
Omg. I'm *way* too conservative to accept the Efreet, and much less the Gog, in the Dwarf town. Gogs are the guards of Hell and would (should) not turn up outside the Inferno.
I'm a bit undecided on the Heroes 5 Fortress riding between two horses, Snow and Fire. On one hand, I found the Magma Dragon and the Runepriests immensely cool. On the other hand, I would like to see a hardcore "Forge" faction - which could be the Dwarfs, or could be a separate Gnome faction - which would have the mechanical theme as a definer.
"Forge" theme is probably not a good idea for Dwarf faction as we already have the Dragon Golem morfed into the Fate Spinner in Heroes 6, and thus have been robbed of that opportunity. That means the regular Golem will also not go into this town.
Sticking to the Norse mythological theme and arctic/fire setting, my suggested line-up would be something like this:
CORE: Shieldguard, Berzerker, Runepriest
ELITE: Valkyrie, Fenrir, ?
CHAMPION: Fire Giant
Not sure exactly what to put in the last Elite spot.
About the Fire Giant, he would take the place as the incarnation of the Fire Element, and thus would be similar to the role played by Angel (Light), Faceless (Dark), and Fate Spinners, and could also be matched by the (Cloud) Giant / Titan (Air) in Academy and possibly similar creatures for Earth (Treant?) and Water (Wyrm?).
OK if it's a NO from you to the Efreet(why exactly?) and Gog, then there's still creatures like Ice Demon, Roc/Thunderbird, Yeti, Behemoth(?) to make an appearance in such a town. One of them can be used to fill the last Elite spot in your idea.
@Nightterror Well here we go again, Naga's aren't invented by Warcraft, it's just a fantasy game that uses them (If every fantasy game was forbidden from using shared creatures, we would simply run out of them or make some stupid ones out of the blue ) I'm not talking about introducing Warcraft Naga, but Naga in HOMM style.
Besides, if you use that argument about games having to be 100% different, maybe it's wrong for HOMM to have Dragons, Elves, and Orcs, JUST BECAUSE Warcraft uses them as well? 
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Lord_Immortal
Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
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posted November 29, 2010 11:10 AM |
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For me dwarves must be a little different.
First warves must be more Lightning-Based and their Rune Priests must use Rune Energy and not fire.
Secondwarf-only faction is not so good.We need human mountain clans and some monsters.Finally,the dwarves must have valkyries/einherjars or other norse myth creatures.
CORE:
1-Royal Guard/Runeguard
Royal Guard-Similiar to Warhammer Runepriest:
Royal Guard can throw 4 axes.
Runeguard-
Runeguard shield:
The Runeguard can throw 8 axes empowered with Rune Magic that deals electric damage
2-Berserker-Valhallan Berserker
Berserker:
Throws 4 axes(2 axes in different directions)
Valhallan Berserker:
3-Warg/Fenrir
Warg looks like an oversized,black wolf while the Fenrir looks like a LotR Warg with black fur,shining red eyes,black iron armour parts at head and legs and horns on his back.
ELITE:
4-Runemage/Runemaster
Both are ranged casters.
Runemage looks like Hangvul with grey clothes,a steel chain mail and the head and staff of a Runepriest.
Runemaster wields a large rune-carved mithril staff with a crystal on its top,a long blue robe with mithril scalemail and shoulderplates and a helmet similiar to the Runeguard's one.
5-Warrior/Einherjar
Warrior: -Wields a Small Shield and an Small Axe.
Einherjar:
6-Salamander/Magma Wyrm
Salamander is similiar to a giant lizard with flame on it.
Similiar to the H5 Lava Dragon with 4 legs.
(Salamander and Magma Wyrm do not fly,but can climb walls)
CHAMPION:
Valkyrie/Solar Valkyrie:
The Valkyie looks like Freyda(H5) with long blonde hair.Wields a spear and mounts a pegasus.
The Solar Valkyrie is similiar to Sveltana's old version(with sword and white robes,but her hair is fiery red and her eyes are en flame.She wiels a runed trident with flames and rides an armoured pegasus.Also,the Solar Valkyrie is surrounded by a heavy golden light.
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Aatos
Adventuring Hero
Heroic Adventurer
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posted November 29, 2010 02:50 PM |
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I think that the development team which is making MMH6 needs to have one or more mythology, fantasy and history scholars, because what we are suggesting is mostly a mix without logic.
We should suggest anyway, because that's what we are here for.
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To fail to plan is to plan to
fail.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 29, 2010 07:03 PM |
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OK if it's a NO from you to the Efreet(why exactly?) and Gog, then there's still creatures like Ice Demon, Roc/Thunderbird, Yeti, Behemoth(?) to make an appearance in such a town. One of them can be used to fill the last Elite spot in your idea.
Actually, I could accept Efreet, perhaps even as an upgrade of the Fire Giant. That might even work well. Reason why I'm reluctant is that it always causes distress when a creature changes faction, particularly such a radical change as this would be. And yes, Yeti is perhaps a good choice, even if it's not particularly Norse.
That would make something like:
Core
Defender > Shieldguard
Brewmaster > Berzerker
Rune Priest > Patriarch
Elite
Warg > Fenrir
Meh-Teh > Yeti
Shield Maiden > Valkyrie
Champion
Fire Giant > Efreet
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What will happen now?
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted November 29, 2010 07:29 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 19:32, 29 Nov 2010.
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so unless you totally reinvent them...
What?
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And I'm more inclined towards considering the elves the minority race, after all, the dwarves can live in dozens of levels underground, whereas elves have only one surface to live on.
Yeah I can agree on that, my point is that for some races it fits more it they share their faction with another race, like the dwarfs and elves i H3, but that is just an example.
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Well elves are naturalists while dwarves are industrious (traditionally) so I can't see how that works. Um, it wasn't just those two in Dungeon, you also had Medusae/s and Harpies, and frankly I never say how any on them actually managed to get along at all. Gnolls and Lizardmen were another pair that always struck a wrong cord for me, I mean, WTF are hyenas, even anthropomorphic one doing in swamps, they're plains-dwellers if they're flaming anything. As for the Goblins/Orcs, I'll again raise the issue that you also had Orges and Cyclopses, turning your duo once again into a quartet. And too many races troubles me almost as much as too many creatures, you again end up with no feeling of cohesion.
Well, I guess we differ there, because I have no problem whats so ever with many lesser races in a single faction. If we look at the Dungeon they are a part of the underground. It is only natural that they have many different humanoids that dwells down there, which can act as minions for the bigger races, troglodytes and minotaurs.
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Oh don't make me repeat, if it's okay for Haven, WTF not for anyone else?
Because humans are xenophobic b@sterds, they can only have beautiful or obedient creatures on their side. So lorewise humans don't need more creatures, and that is something that makes them unique. If all factions only had units of their race then that would be boring. If all factions only had strange creatures then THAT would be boring, so there needs to be diversity.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
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posted November 29, 2010 10:14 PM |
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OK if it's a NO from you to the Efreet(why exactly?) and Gog, then there's still creatures like Ice Demon, Roc/Thunderbird, Yeti, Behemoth(?) to make an appearance in such a town. One of them can be used to fill the last Elite spot in your idea.
Actually, I could accept Efreet, perhaps even as an upgrade of the Fire Giant. That might even work well. Reason why I'm reluctant is that it always causes distress when a creature changes faction, particularly such a radical change as this would be. And yes, Yeti is perhaps a good choice, even if it's not particularly Norse.
That would make something like:
Core
Defender > Shieldguard
Brewmaster > Berzerker
Rune Priest > Patriarch
Elite
Warg > Fenrir
Meh-Teh > Yeti
Shield Maiden > Valkyrie
Champion
Fire Giant > Efreet
I understand, and it does cause distress, BUT it is a common occurrence in the HOMM series and wouldn't be anything new, even more radical changes took place (e.g. Griffin has been with Dungeon, Haven, and Nature OR the Gargoyle has been with Dungeon, Academy, and Infernopolis) BESIDES, it wouldn' really classify as the Efreet "swapping factions" as it was missing in H5 altogether.
On a different note, my biggest disappointment with the HOMM series as it progresses, is the reduced number of factions and creatures, some of them having been scrapped altogether (e.g. Medusa, Harpy, Troglodyte, Gnoll(and the whole H3 Fortress), Naga, Beholder, Venom Spawn, Behemoth, Roc/Thunderbird, Faerie Dragon, Halfling, just to name a few)
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 29, 2010 11:17 PM |
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so unless you totally reinvent them...
What?
Pretty much all of the dwarves seen today are taken from Tolkien's dwarves to some degree, so if you want to drop smoe of the Tolkien elements while still making them work...
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Because humans are xenophobic b@sterds, they can only have beautiful or obedient creatures on their side. So lorewise humans don't need more creatures, and that is something that makes them unique. If all factions only had units of their race then that would be boring. If all factions only had strange creatures then THAT would be boring, so there needs to be diversity.
History would play out 'against' this oh so much, just think of all of the European wars after about 1600, the 30 Years War, the 7 Years War, the Napoleonic Wars, the Crimean War, etc... Pretty much all of them were fought over ideology, not race.
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted November 29, 2010 11:34 PM |
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so unless you totally reinvent them...
What?
Pretty much all of the dwarves seen today are taken from Tolkien's dwarves to some degree, so if you want to drop smoe of the Tolkien elements while still making them work...
Not that I care that much, but I rather have them like they are in Norse-mythology, sitting at home tinkering and smithing
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Because humans are xenophobic b@sterds, they can only have beautiful or obedient creatures on their side. So lorewise humans don't need more creatures, and that is something that makes them unique. If all factions only had units of their race then that would be boring. If all factions only had strange creatures then THAT would be boring, so there needs to be diversity.
History would play out 'against' this oh so much, just think of all of the European wars after about 1600, the 30 Years War, the 7 Years War, the Napoleonic Wars, the Crimean War, etc... Pretty much all of them were fought over ideology, not race.
Trust me when I say I know the reasons for those wars. I was more referring to other fantasy games, where humans often are keeping to themselves because they are the noble ones. Rarely mix with other races unless they really need to, sure they often have allies like elves or dwarfs but anyways.....
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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